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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

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Comments

  • I want to add that Steam charts are not exactly the most reliable indication of a region's playerbase - EU didn't make Tera available on the platform until much later down the road, so only a small percentage of the overall EU userbase actually shows up on those charts. Similarly, not everyone uses shinra and uploads on moongourd. But it's true that the numbers there can be a good indication of what the more dedicated folks are up to, and some random tidbits speak for themselves in that regard.

    I don't have exact numbers either, but as an EU regular I definitely have to thank EME for what they have done here. Double to triple the usual people in HW, faster BG queues, Velika actually has people in it again for the first time in months..and all that is on one of the smaller servers.

    Some of the NA refugees I spoke to told me they still hop on for CU during the weekends, but that is about it.
    To put it in the words of one them: "I didn't want to be here, I still don't, but here I am".
  • RinHoshizoraRinHoshizora ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    > @ZingoPingo said:
    > >CU sucks! - refuted
    > >Look at the steamcharts! - refuted
    > >in-game LFGs!
    > If I refute that you'll post MG stats. (third party btw, blindly trust it!!!!)
    > If you don't like it, don't play. If you wanna stick it to EME, don't play. Done posting, get off the fearmonger bandwagon.

    There was also someone posted an HH group couldn't even pull together half a raid after the whole dmca clown fiesta. That's also the same raid that was doing 6 raids a week on CH pre-merge.
  • P2WP2W ✭✭✭
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    >CU sucks! - refuted
    >Look at the steamcharts! - refuted
    >in-game LFGs!
    If I refute that you'll post MG stats. (third party btw, blindly trust it!!!!)
    If you don't like it, don't play. If you wanna stick it to EME, don't play. Done posting, get off the fearmonger bandwagon.

    LMAO! That's exactly what people are doing. They're not playing. But you still spam RG all day, so game is not dead.
  • MelyodisMelyodis ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Pwhoops wrote: »
    TheDarkWan wrote: »


    I told you there's people [Insert adjective here] enough to think 'skill prediction' means that the enemy skills are being predicted and auto-dodged. It's 'skill prediction' because uses what is a called 'packet prediction', therefore 'skill prediction'. It just makes you feel like you're playing on 5 ping, it doesn't PREDICT enemy skills and 'auto-dodge them'. Obviously any research you did was extremely shallow, and is always from the lower-end part of the community who have no idea what they talking about.

    All you are talking about is the skill prediction? what about the other cheats? like event hunt mob lactation and auto enrage and all rest of the cheats you guys used? STFU and leave you cheating lame brains.

    Hey, dumb [filtered], the cheaters are still cheating. They can make their own proxy and half of the cheats don't even require a proxy, don't be an ignorant fool.

    Yeah the cheaters gone continue to cheat but if proxy only had one module that being SP eme may not have done what they did, that's my thinking and as for all the QOL modules i call it cheating cause they are an advantage to those who don't use proxies cause those qol are not in game features. The only module that i see as not a cheating module is SP as for the rest they are cheats idc what you all say qol my black A. There guide modules for some dungeons go learn it by heart, use your brains like those without proxies do and you need a module to auto turn in a vanguard for you wth you all brain dead i'm sure you don't forget to sh-it everyday or brush your teeth lawd.
  • DYLW5HFXJHDYLW5HFXJH ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.
  • edited October 2018
    I hope they work well under pressure
  • RyusamaRyusama ✭✭✭
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    While I understand your point of view, I disagree.

    There's a large impact and it's real. You can feel it on IMS queue times and BG queue times. People have reported here and in-game that the queues are taking too long and just before I logged out, to keep the vanguard buff, someone said over global that he tried Queueing with Tank then switched to Healer and then DPS and nothing popped.

    Do keep in mind that proxy is still somewhat working until 16th so it's safe to assume that after that date this will only get worse. So it will affect everyone equally, those who do 412-431 and those who do 439 onwards. In fact, less and less people will do AAHM due to the fact you have a fixed time to kill last boss which requires high dps and people with high ping wont be able to run that instance.

    I do have a feeling that selling runs will become a thing again.
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    ifritcba wrote: »
    metagame wrote: »
    How is Skill Prediction cheating when it merely removes ping tax.
    1) it's a bandaid to a problem that still exists ingame
    2) it isn't supported by the producer of the game
    3) there are developers that have taken "skill prediction" to an extreme level, allowing players to do things not possible on any ping

    and those player who play the game with 250 ms or more like me in argentina?? you say we cant play because emme doesnt do anything , just lets south american player dont play the game and done

    Again, this is North American TERA. You are more than welcome to play, an ability not every online service, or game, will grant you. Some will even go out of their way to avoid other regions by IP blocking or worse. EME is slow. Very slow. Probably due to the mismanagement of their employees and the revolving door we've gotten because of it. But they have taken in to consideration many suggestions by the playerbase. There was a chance once upon a time to grow the idea of multiple server instances, or a completely different SA server. For one reason or another, this was not done. Perhaps because it's not profitable, perhaps they could not get a license to operate, perhaps Koreans just hate south america. If enough traction had been gained to tell BHS that this is something we want, I guarantee you it would have been considered.

    That being said, being from a country that is not supported by the service you are tyring to use, and then using a third party program against the services ToS to get around that, and then complaining when said third party is punished, I really don't know what to tell you anymore, it's spelled out in front of you. I've owned Tera since early access pre-orders, I got the city wheel earring and the digital founders, I was hype AF for this game, but you know what, I couldn't run it for [filtered] the first year or so. I was running on a pretty impressive work laptop, but a laptop in 2012 nonetheless. I did not go out and steal a computer to use to play Tera for 'quality of life'. I waited until the ability for me to play was available and I used it.

    if its na tera why did they push toi add specific charge methods for south american players or people located there? if you're not going to cater to these people or they are basically persona non grata in your game you dont need their money either.
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.
    I put drop in quotes to imply skepticism.
    CU on EU isn't any healthier, drop or not, this fearmongering is annoying.

    pvp is dead, its worthless, to be relevant in the coming future you MUST pve, mats for oath enchanting are pve only and the majority of eu tera are pvers, some pvp for fun or duel but people there know if you want to progress in the game you have to pve mainly. wether you want to accept it or not its the direction bhs took and even with their new dev team member its highly unlikely to change, even in korea pvp is utterly dead.
  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?
  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.
  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    Oh on my 5th +9 gear since RKEM and good for you, you have low ping that can remotely *gasps* play 446 dungeons without too much issues. Ever had a time where in RKE your FPS dips so hard during the RKE trigger? Ever had a time where your dodge or iframe glitches into hidden invisible boxes into the boss, causing you to teleport around the boss? Had a time where your movement skills teleport you back to where you came from? Congratulations! You finally figured out why proxy and 3rd party modules existed!

    And for the record, I have also been playing for over 5 years in Tera, and having played with both high and low ping in different servers, as well as delving into the technicalities of the netcode implementation, with a bout of me literally dissassembling the entire program and understanding their implementation from the machine codes, I suppose calling you narcissistic is the most apt word, since you conveniently left out all the bugs/issues and glitches in Tera, despite many people having known about them, troubleshooted them, and even came up with a solution for it, only to be branded by you as "cheaters". What a way to thank them indeed!
  • 1. having to reassure your playerbase you love them isn't necessarily a good sign, you know. ( ´_ゝ`)

    2. why now? isn't this too little too late? the things the proxy helped with have been brought up for literal YEARS now, and nothing was ever done to fix them. i understand a lot of them need to be fixed by BHS rather that the publisher, but geez. since there were no improvements don't be surprised players come up with their own solution. does this us give us the right? maybe not, but this isn't the whole story.

    3. be against 3rd party programs all you want- that's understandable. but the thing is, the developers of the proxy tried to contact you for YEARS only to be ignored (or banned.) they could pinpoint the problems and knew how to fix them. you didn't accept their help, and instead of painted them as dangerous hackers/cheaters. and NOW you say "We will investigate solutions that provide some of the benefits that these 3rd Party Services offered in a form that doesn't violate our terms of service." and "Right now, we are working with Bluehole to determine what we can implement alongside our current roadmap.".......... the devs also banned those (from Discord) who came up with cheats, so they're not the ones you should've gone after. they were ready to help YOU. yet they were treated horribly.

    you demand our utmost respect, yet hardly extend it to us, your playerbase. i will admit some of us have been out of line, i don't even question that. but many who have brought up valid points have been silenced (which means forum bans and deletion of threads.)

    it shouldn't have taken literal years to try to fix these things. it doesn't exactly show you in a good light you're only NOW trying to help, when you're losing money.
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    player council are useless, you had one here adamantly arguing about how the dmca works when he himself has no clue, the player council itself is nothing but a sham that was created to make it seem like eme gave some concern to what players thought. i am from probably what was the most active guild on mt/kt up to this issue and i can tell you it has had its effects, i can tell you entire guilds have migrated. if you're still on kaiator i am guessing you're in ambulance? also a huge fyi if you arent playing the game at 15 or lower ms you are NOT playing the game the way its meant to be played.
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