[TERA PC & Console] En Masse is closing, but TERA lives on! We will continue to support TERA PC (NA) and TERA Console until services are transferred. Our Service Moving Info page is now live here: https://bit.ly/tera_service_moving
Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]
Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.
I put drop in quotes to imply skepticism.
CU on EU isn't any healthier, drop or not, this fearmongering is annoying.
skepticism? Drop on Steam charts, drop in CU, drop in LFGs. And that's with proxy and meters still working (until the 16th). How times have changed when people from EU have to pay the ping tax to play on NA.
While I don't disagree with you on the population drops (anyone who tries to play the game will tell you that queue times are slower, LFG is emptier, etc.), steam is a bad way to measure this kind of thing since most proxy users didn't use steam to log in, which is why at peak hours the amount of steam users online isn't too different from what it was before. You also have to factor in that Gameforge blocked EU players from using steam to download NA tera after too many of their players migrated with it back in the day. So the kinds of people most likely to leave right now are least likely to use the steam launcher.
Since we can't see official data and people shrug off moongourd data (which is fair; admittedly it too only gives a partial picture, even if that picture is pretty damning), there's no way to convince "skeptics" short of having them play the game and see for themselves. Since Zingo likes to PvP, I don't know how he can think the game's alive with BG queues suddenly being as long as they are, but maybe he's quit as well. I couldn't blame him; personally my whole guild has migrated to EU, since most of them were from EU anyway, and we're having fun there. I've run into a number of NA players already, and it's become such a meme on EU's servers that they're calling us refugees and posting buddyup signs everywhere to accommodate the influx of new players. The migration is too big for even Gameforge to ignore; the day after EME's DMCA set off its chain reaction, Gameforge started a leveling event that gave players twisthard for hitting 65. And in that event's description, they asked "So, Would you like to start again from scratch?" as a direct callout to NA players.
I really think when a majority of players are noticing the drop off in population, and even the competition is noticing it and catering to those abandoned players, then calling it mere fearmongering goes from skepticism to something else. Denial, maybe. I don't know. One thing I do know is that EU is quite enjoyable. I'm unsure if it's because there's no xigncode or what, but the game doesn't hiccup when I open inventories, it doesn't run like [filtered] if I leave it open for too long, my ping barely fluctuates like it did on NA despite my proximity from their servers, their stream codes give actual good prizes, rewards for dungeoning (especially talents) are handled in a way that makes sense and feels like it was done with player feedback in mind, and the store sells dyeable outfits without rng and doesn't remove items nearly as much as NA, so most costumes are easily available. Thanks to a certain third party tool, the ping issue is nonexistent and the transition has been smooth. GF could decide to do the same thing as EME and shoot themselves in the foot, but they probably looked at how this blew up for EME and realized they're better off doing nothing since "doing nothing" is netting them players, and every day those players get a little more tempted to spend money. Gameforge is seizing on this opportunity, because they learned the hard way that when you anger your player base enough to switch regions, if they feel accommodated they will remain in their new home for years. Meanwhile, every day EME prioritizes pumpkin carving contests and randomized talent battleground events over fixing problems that proxy devs had already fixed for them, is another day for players to try EU and realize that it completely blows NA out of the water -- for now, at least.
I love to see EME has their priorities straight. Give us a forum post on kart rider removal compensation that nobody cares about instead of updating the community on the possible solutions and fixes for the proxy debacle. The disconnect between EME and the community is hilarious and pathetic. At least is good to see that EME is bleeding players and elite subscriptions left and right. If they don't care about what we have to say, we'll talk with our wallets. Have fun making profit out of a desolate game and knowing how hard headed EME is, I can unequivocally say that they will not back down from their mistakes. Instead watch EME push out more irrelevant events with atrocious rewards to save face and try to retain what little of the player base is left in NA.
I love to see EME has their priorities straight. Give us a forum post on kart rider removal compensation that nobody cares about instead of updating the community on the possible solutions and fixes for the proxy debacle. The disconnect between EME and the community is hilarious and pathetic. At least is good to see that EME is bleeding players and elite subscriptions left and right. If they don't care about what we have to say, we'll talk with our wallets. Have fun making profit out of a desolate game and knowing how hard headed EME is, I can unequivocally say that they will not back down from their mistakes. Instead watch EME push out more irrelevant events with atrocious rewards to save face and try to retain what little of the player base is left in NA.
man people are just unpatient they already assured us that theyre gonna say something about it this week so quit whining unless it doesnt happen this week. The reason they gave us a post regarding kart removal its because its part of the update and if they remove it without posting something about it then more people will be crying about their lost kart without a word from eme...yes eme has so much flaws and stupid decisions but guess what the NA community is also somewhat toxic which doesnt help the situation..
nothing posted there even the emporium issue was proxy related except bernkastel, the article even shows enmasse lying about ban appeals so i dont get your point for posting it. it if anything shows even more incompentency on the company's part. the emporium thing was discovered when the then cm spacecats gave everyone an item code and the page froze for everyone and on stream he said try refreshing the page and for every time people refreshed the page it resent the items from the code, its not proxy related and could be abused with or without it, memeslash etc are all the same thing.
You wanted some constructive criticism so here is a list of the some of the bare minimum. Not in any particular order, and I know a lot of this has been mentioned before. Maybe I just felt like compiling the list.
1.) DPS meter with a corresponding website to log (ie. shinra/moongourd)
2.) Client side Skill prediction to address the ping tax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-side_prediction)
3.) allow us to hide other players and other players skills (separate options)
4.) Optimize the game, fix memory leaks in DG's (I don't know why we have to close/reopen the game before every boss fight just to clear the lag and fps drops. I haven't had to do this in EU since this shenanigans started.)
5.) Get a better Internet Service Provider to host your servers, one with better routing, and bigger pipe to accommodate the throughput. I live in NA and have 120-150 ping, I have the exact same ping in EU wth!
6.) Remove Xingcode, this eats a lot of system resources. Even my new PC i7-8700k feel sluggish when this runs, not to mention it's a rootkit. Get something better or non at all.
7.) Have your CM's start playing the game "more", or at least talk to someone who has in depth knowledge of it. I feel your team loses a lot of respect during streams when they provide inaccurate information or inability to do basic things. A good example is the recent EU stream, no one expected the stream presenter to know how to play and he was actually decent. Props to them.
9.) I can't know for sure if you do or don't listen to your players, but a response over issue brooding for months would calm the masses and would inspire confidence towards your team. (ie. Gold/Silver Talent issues) Granted I never had this problem but 80% of my guild mates do.
If I miss something feel free to quote and add to the list.
nothing posted there even the emporium issue was proxy related except bernkastel, the article even shows enmasse lying about ban appeals so i dont get your point for posting it. it if anything shows even more incompentency on the company's part. the emporium thing was discovered when the then cm spacecats gave everyone an item code and the page froze for everyone and on stream he said try refreshing the page and for every time people refreshed the page it resent the items from the code, its not proxy related and could be abused with or without it, memeslash etc are all the same thing.
The emporium thing was photoshopped, it was a meme and it was blown out of proportion by the anti-proxy people & EME.
there was an exploit though or rather glitch you could use that was similar, but it was when they gave out the codes for points and credits.
player council are useless, you had one here adamantly arguing about how the dmca works when he himself has no clue
This is low quality bait, but I'll take it anyway because why not. Nothing I said about DMCA was wrong at all, and it's all independently verifiable by reading up on related cases or actually reading the law itself. But, in the end, what does it matter? I know this ploy as well as anyone. It doesn't matter how much [filtered] gets thrown on the pile -- whether based on fact, insinuation, or scare-tactic -- as long as it gets more people more riled up, which keeps the pressure rising. This whole forum has been nothing but this kind of pressure-cooker ever since this started. It's certainly true that some of the issues are legitimate and fair (it's no surprise that it was an explosion waiting to happen), but it's also pointless to actually have a real discussion that separates fact from fiction right now. (For instance, the lie that people are being "silenced" for their negative opinion, rather than their toxic attitudes and behaviour. Or the lie that XIGNCODE is illegal in EU due to GDPR, when many other EU publishers still use it legally. Or the lie that XIGNCODE is a rootkit, when it doesn't even have admin rights here. Or the bit about DMCA, and on and on it goes...) A day may come when we can have these conversations, but clearly it isn't now.
I suppose history in this region has shown that it isn't the reasonable, fact-based, hyperbole-free arguments that get the attention. It's uncontrolled expressions of pure unbridled fury. Clearly that's the tactic here and that's why, for the most part, I've stayed out of the debate. Whether the tactic will get people what they want, time will tell. I've done my part in trying to make sure the actual good arguments (without the hyperbole) were delivered. It's up to them to act.
For instance, the lie that people are being "silenced" for their negative opinion, rather than their toxic attitudes and behaviour.
That is a lie itself @counterpoint
I agree some deleted posts were toxic.
However, some deleted posts had actual feedback.
Not agreeing with some feedback is not a reason to call it toxic and delete it.
Since we're not being silenced, why are we unable to down vote?
For instance, the lie that people are being "silenced" for their negative opinion, rather than their toxic attitudes and behaviour.
That is a lie itself @counterpoint
I agree some deleted posts were toxic.
However, some deleted posts had actual feedback.
Not agreeing with some feedback is not a reason to call it toxic and delete it.
All of the posts/threads that were deleted are publicly verifiable through the dev tracker anyway, and if you really want to get into a debate about specific cases, it isn't the time/place, as I said. With the overwhelming amount of rampant negativity on this forum seeping through every pore, if you really think it's because someone "didn't agree with some feedback," you'll not be convinced regardless of what is said.
Since we're not being silenced, why are we unable to down vote?
It's not a feature of this forum software at all. Edit: See below for correction by Margarethe. It is a feature offered, just not enabled by default or recommended.
player council are useless, you had one here adamantly arguing about how the dmca works when he himself has no clue, the player council itself is nothing but a sham that was created to make it seem like eme gave some concern to what players thought. i am from probably what was the most active guild on mt/kt up to this issue and i can tell you it has had its effects, i can tell you entire guilds have migrated. if you're still on kaiator i am guessing you're in ambulance? also a huge fyi if you arent playing the game at 15 or lower ms you are NOT playing the game the way its meant to be played.
I'm not from Ambulance, though I know the two who made it pretty well. It's good to see you can name off another guild who doesn't have as big of a problem, although I know they've been on the MS2 train since the announcement, which is understandable as a lot of them are foreign players. For an experienced, geared raid, burning a foot isn't really an issue with or without assistance.
It honestly makes me wonder, though. All that above and beyond usage of third party for all this time, specific players dominating in VO raids, CU, FWC, what have you, known players who inject through gate, they would be insane to stick around if all of its gone. I wonder how much of a target that type of person would be now that they won't have the same advantages soon. I've seen all three FWC pyres captured at once without a player next to them, not even a grey blob, a completely wiped middle that is being captured by the enemy and can't be stopped in front of a dozen enemy players who can do nothing but watch, and sigh or laugh, just so someones rating might be saved by cheating. I also wonder, why would a player like that stick around and care, full well knowing it's all gone soon. I think we can both agree that some of the top guilds are specifically recruited by an ideal that they want to be the top guild, so they would then attract players who want to be on top by any means necessary, and would get upset when those means are taken away.
Also FYI if you're not playing cod4 on LAN you're NOT playing the game the way it's meant to be played. TERA got it's lag issues but I've never met such a large amount of entitled babies. People literally moved to California for years to be close to the main League server, people play tons of MMOs with 30-120 ping constantly, yet the call to spam third party services flourishes specifically on TERA. If I go on league right now I can guarantee you I'm not getting 30 ping let alone 15 and I guarantee you they'll ban me for manipulating my packets like how can you actually say dumb [filtered] like that lmao.
Comments
Edit: Whoa they filtered the link
https://hugedong69.github.io/A u t i s m/
Remove the spaces yourself
While I don't disagree with you on the population drops (anyone who tries to play the game will tell you that queue times are slower, LFG is emptier, etc.), steam is a bad way to measure this kind of thing since most proxy users didn't use steam to log in, which is why at peak hours the amount of steam users online isn't too different from what it was before. You also have to factor in that Gameforge blocked EU players from using steam to download NA tera after too many of their players migrated with it back in the day. So the kinds of people most likely to leave right now are least likely to use the steam launcher.
Since we can't see official data and people shrug off moongourd data (which is fair; admittedly it too only gives a partial picture, even if that picture is pretty damning), there's no way to convince "skeptics" short of having them play the game and see for themselves. Since Zingo likes to PvP, I don't know how he can think the game's alive with BG queues suddenly being as long as they are, but maybe he's quit as well. I couldn't blame him; personally my whole guild has migrated to EU, since most of them were from EU anyway, and we're having fun there. I've run into a number of NA players already, and it's become such a meme on EU's servers that they're calling us refugees and posting buddyup signs everywhere to accommodate the influx of new players. The migration is too big for even Gameforge to ignore; the day after EME's DMCA set off its chain reaction, Gameforge started a leveling event that gave players twisthard for hitting 65. And in that event's description, they asked "So, Would you like to start again from scratch?" as a direct callout to NA players.
I really think when a majority of players are noticing the drop off in population, and even the competition is noticing it and catering to those abandoned players, then calling it mere fearmongering goes from skepticism to something else. Denial, maybe. I don't know. One thing I do know is that EU is quite enjoyable. I'm unsure if it's because there's no xigncode or what, but the game doesn't hiccup when I open inventories, it doesn't run like [filtered] if I leave it open for too long, my ping barely fluctuates like it did on NA despite my proximity from their servers, their stream codes give actual good prizes, rewards for dungeoning (especially talents) are handled in a way that makes sense and feels like it was done with player feedback in mind, and the store sells dyeable outfits without rng and doesn't remove items nearly as much as NA, so most costumes are easily available. Thanks to a certain third party tool, the ping issue is nonexistent and the transition has been smooth. GF could decide to do the same thing as EME and shoot themselves in the foot, but they probably looked at how this blew up for EME and realized they're better off doing nothing since "doing nothing" is netting them players, and every day those players get a little more tempted to spend money. Gameforge is seizing on this opportunity, because they learned the hard way that when you anger your player base enough to switch regions, if they feel accommodated they will remain in their new home for years. Meanwhile, every day EME prioritizes pumpkin carving contests and randomized talent battleground events over fixing problems that proxy devs had already fixed for them, is another day for players to try EU and realize that it completely blows NA out of the water -- for now, at least.
man people are just unpatient they already assured us that theyre gonna say something about it this week so quit whining unless it doesnt happen this week. The reason they gave us a post regarding kart removal its because its part of the update and if they remove it without posting something about it then more people will be crying about their lost kart without a word from eme...yes eme has so much flaws and stupid decisions but guess what the NA community is also somewhat toxic which doesnt help the situation..
nothing posted there even the emporium issue was proxy related except bernkastel, the article even shows enmasse lying about ban appeals so i dont get your point for posting it. it if anything shows even more incompentency on the company's part. the emporium thing was discovered when the then cm spacecats gave everyone an item code and the page froze for everyone and on stream he said try refreshing the page and for every time people refreshed the page it resent the items from the code, its not proxy related and could be abused with or without it, memeslash etc are all the same thing.
1.) DPS meter with a corresponding website to log (ie. shinra/moongourd)
2.) Client side Skill prediction to address the ping tax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-side_prediction)
3.) allow us to hide other players and other players skills (separate options)
4.) Optimize the game, fix memory leaks in DG's (I don't know why we have to close/reopen the game before every boss fight just to clear the lag and fps drops. I haven't had to do this in EU since this shenanigans started.)
5.) Get a better Internet Service Provider to host your servers, one with better routing, and bigger pipe to accommodate the throughput. I live in NA and have 120-150 ping, I have the exact same ping in EU wth!
6.) Remove Xingcode, this eats a lot of system resources. Even my new PC i7-8700k feel sluggish when this runs, not to mention it's a rootkit. Get something better or non at all.
7.) Have your CM's start playing the game "more", or at least talk to someone who has in depth knowledge of it. I feel your team loses a lot of respect during streams when they provide inaccurate information or inability to do basic things. A good example is the recent EU stream, no one expected the stream presenter to know how to play and he was actually decent. Props to them.
9.) I can't know for sure if you do or don't listen to your players, but a response over issue brooding for months would calm the masses and would inspire confidence towards your team. (ie. Gold/Silver Talent issues) Granted I never had this problem but 80% of my guild mates do.
If I miss something feel free to quote and add to the list.
there was an exploit though or rather glitch you could use that was similar, but it was when they gave out the codes for points and credits.
I suppose history in this region has shown that it isn't the reasonable, fact-based, hyperbole-free arguments that get the attention. It's uncontrolled expressions of pure unbridled fury. Clearly that's the tactic here and that's why, for the most part, I've stayed out of the debate. Whether the tactic will get people what they want, time will tell. I've done my part in trying to make sure the actual good arguments (without the hyperbole) were delivered. It's up to them to act.
That is a lie itself @counterpoint
I agree some deleted posts were toxic.
However, some deleted posts had actual feedback.
Not agreeing with some feedback is not a reason to call it toxic and delete it.
Since we're not being silenced, why are we unable to down vote?
All of the posts/threads that were deleted are publicly verifiable through the dev tracker anyway, and if you really want to get into a debate about specific cases, it isn't the time/place, as I said. With the overwhelming amount of rampant negativity on this forum seeping through every pore, if you really think it's because someone "didn't agree with some feedback," you'll not be convinced regardless of what is said.
It's not a feature of this forum software at all. Edit: See below for correction by Margarethe. It is a feature offered, just not enabled by default or recommended.
I'm not from Ambulance, though I know the two who made it pretty well. It's good to see you can name off another guild who doesn't have as big of a problem, although I know they've been on the MS2 train since the announcement, which is understandable as a lot of them are foreign players. For an experienced, geared raid, burning a foot isn't really an issue with or without assistance.
It honestly makes me wonder, though. All that above and beyond usage of third party for all this time, specific players dominating in VO raids, CU, FWC, what have you, known players who inject through gate, they would be insane to stick around if all of its gone. I wonder how much of a target that type of person would be now that they won't have the same advantages soon. I've seen all three FWC pyres captured at once without a player next to them, not even a grey blob, a completely wiped middle that is being captured by the enemy and can't be stopped in front of a dozen enemy players who can do nothing but watch, and sigh or laugh, just so someones rating might be saved by cheating. I also wonder, why would a player like that stick around and care, full well knowing it's all gone soon. I think we can both agree that some of the top guilds are specifically recruited by an ideal that they want to be the top guild, so they would then attract players who want to be on top by any means necessary, and would get upset when those means are taken away.
Also FYI if you're not playing cod4 on LAN you're NOT playing the game the way it's meant to be played. TERA got it's lag issues but I've never met such a large amount of entitled babies. People literally moved to California for years to be close to the main League server, people play tons of MMOs with 30-120 ping constantly, yet the call to spam third party services flourishes specifically on TERA. If I go on league right now I can guarantee you I'm not getting 30 ping let alone 15 and I guarantee you they'll ban me for manipulating my packets like how can you actually say dumb [filtered] like that lmao.