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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

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Comments

  • JerichowJerichow ✭✭✭✭
    Leaving this here. Spend a couple minutes to read this guys.

    Edit: Whoa they filtered the link

    https://hugedong69.github.io/A u t i s m/
    Remove the spaces yourself

    I just took the last hour to read that whole thing and.... man that hurts to read. Not just because of what you can clearly see it's doing to him, but it hurts knowing every word in that is true.
  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    Oh on my 5th +9 gear since RKEM and good for you, you have low ping that can remotely *gasps* play 446 dungeons without too much issues. Ever had a time where in RKE your FPS dips so hard during the RKE trigger? Ever had a time where your dodge or iframe glitches into hidden invisible boxes into the boss, causing you to teleport around the boss? Had a time where your movement skills teleport you back to where you came from? Congratulations! You finally figured out why proxy and 3rd party modules existed!

    And for the record, I have also been playing for over 5 years in Tera, and having played with both high and low ping in different servers, as well as delving into the technicalities of the netcode implementation, with a bout of me literally dissassembling the entire program and understanding their implementation from the machine codes, I suppose calling you narcissistic is the most apt word, since you conveniently left out all the bugs/issues and glitches in Tera, despite many people having known about them, troubleshooted them, and even came up with a solution for it, only to be branded by you as "cheaters". What a way to thank them indeed!

    Yeah, it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not. If I get caught by a fate on lachelith because I didn't end my bull rush with a move that sends a packet firmly planting myself on the safe ground instead of rubberbanding back in to the circle, I blame myself, because it's happened, I figured it out, and now I know better. You sure do like to use that n word for someone who both brought up 'relevancy' and wants to compare crotch cup sizes in experience. I don't lag on S bomb because I used to have issues years ago running the game, found out why, and when I purchased a new CPU as you probably should have definitely done in the span of this game, just based on how old your PC would be by now if you hadn't, and I kept in mind that both BDO and TERA were single core CPU bound with barely any spillover to a second core, and I purchased accordingly. Otherwise it woulda been zen all the way for me.

    All you see is high DPS and being able to ignore trap runs, and mechanics. You know what makes me feel like a good player? Knowing that even if a lot of the players I encounter in a random IMS run hit the dirt, that I'll be able to do the mechanics, and clutch as hard as I can. I got some old friends from Ama I can think back to and laugh at this point for helping me do pass runs back in VSHM, you know, the dungeon with two bosses that have been in the game a long time now. Having only lower geared players join the LFG for a couple badge passes looking for a skilled clear in exchange, it was hilarious to watch top tier players eat it on mechanics they just weren't used to seeing because they generally skipped the mechanics.

    Or is hitting a paw for 57 seconds so you can get a cut of 350k the way this game is meant to be played?
  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Margarethe wrote: »
    Since we're not being silenced, why are we unable to down vote?

    It's not a feature of this forum software at all.

    Isn't this Vanilla Forums?
    https://library.vanillaforums.com/need-a-forum-in-a-week-heres-how-en-masse-did-it-thanks-to-vanilla/

    They do have a down vote option (reaction).
    https://blog.vanillaforums.com/community-should-you-enable-downvoting-in-your-community
  • edited October 2018
    Margarethe wrote: »
    Margarethe wrote: »
    Since we're not being silenced, why are we unable to down vote?

    It's not a feature of this forum software at all.

    Isn't this Vanilla Forums?
    https://library.vanillaforums.com/need-a-forum-in-a-week-heres-how-en-masse-did-it-thanks-to-vanilla/

    They do have a down vote option (reaction).
    https://blog.vanillaforums.com/community-should-you-enable-downvoting-in-your-community

    You are right. I guess it's more correct to say that it is not enabled by default, and they do not recommend using it, although the option is there. It has never been turned on since the switch, and I certainly don't think the forum has been any less negative as a result. But anyway, I guess it's a side-topic.
  • I understand that Enmasse as a company have invested in the Xigncode code. It should not be cheap. The community would not have said anything if they said "use the xingcode obligatorily We are going to improve the loot. To proxy developers, remove their module". The players would be happy and nobody would go to the EU.

    It's very sad for me, as a veteran in this game (since 2014), how this game in less than 48 hours has been destroyed. What happens today is nothing compared to October 16 when the last healthy proxy in operation turns off.

    If you correctly made the decisions. An idea of mine (maybe childish and stupid) is something like:
    - Hire the proxy developers and create an official one

    - A list of official modules. Additionally a module that checks that players occupy only those official modules and approved by Enmasse.

    - With the previous database periodically, with a conditional, check which players follow the new rules. Those who occupy unofficial modules that receive warning or ban according to the case.

    - The official proxy would be mandatory. At the same time as xigncode.

    - Improve the silver / golden talents by 30-50%. Besides that in all the dungeons there is that loot or something better. For example: 5 star dungeons => golden and silver plate x10 x3
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    sanj66 wrote: »

    player council are useless, you had one here adamantly arguing about how the dmca works when he himself has no clue, the player council itself is nothing but a sham that was created to make it seem like eme gave some concern to what players thought. i am from probably what was the most active guild on mt/kt up to this issue and i can tell you it has had its effects, i can tell you entire guilds have migrated. if you're still on kaiator i am guessing you're in ambulance? also a huge fyi if you arent playing the game at 15 or lower ms you are NOT playing the game the way its meant to be played.

    I'm not from Ambulance, though I know the two who made it pretty well. It's good to see you can name off another guild who doesn't have as big of a problem, although I know they've been on the MS2 train since the announcement, which is understandable as a lot of them are foreign players. For an experienced, geared raid, burning a foot isn't really an issue with or without assistance.

    It honestly makes me wonder, though. All that above and beyond usage of third party for all this time, specific players dominating in VO raids, CU, FWC, what have you, known players who inject through gate, they would be insane to stick around if all of its gone. I wonder how much of a target that type of person would be now that they won't have the same advantages soon. I've seen all three FWC pyres captured at once without a player next to them, not even a grey blob, a completely wiped middle that is being captured by the enemy and can't be stopped in front of a dozen enemy players who can do nothing but watch, and sigh or laugh, just so someones rating might be saved by cheating. I also wonder, why would a player like that stick around and care, full well knowing it's all gone soon. I think we can both agree that some of the top guilds are specifically recruited by an ideal that they want to be the top guild, so they would then attract players who want to be on top by any means necessary, and would get upset when those means are taken away.

    Also FYI if you're not playing cod4 on LAN you're NOT playing the game the way it's meant to be played. TERA got it's lag issues but I've never met such a large amount of entitled babies. People literally moved to California for years to be close to the main League server, people play tons of MMOs with 30-120 ping constantly, yet the call to spam third party services flourishes specifically on TERA. If I go on league right now I can guarantee you I'm not getting 30 ping let alone 15 and I guarantee you they'll ban me for manipulating my packets like how can you actually say dumb [filtered] like that lmao.

    ambulance has its issues what do you mean lol, every single issue you listed above guess what? can be done without proxy, people can and have been gate glitching in bgs and dungeons without any software due to glitches in the game's coding. you do know something as simple as cheat engine works on tera right? no one is being enttitled except eme, who think hey because they are incompetent we must flex our muscles to show who is the real boss around here without fixing any of the actual issues/glitches/bugs/exploits.and to @counterpoint its not bait if its true, there are other people than myself that went through the dmca and explained it albeit on another forum, and the case you posted was very much disimilar. as for the pc being a sham to make players feel they are being listened to everyone knows that is true and hav even seen in the past pc members talk about how the company just ignores them even when they bring up issues. i posted on this thread asking why other regions are optimized better and get actual fixes etc, and if you doubt me go on eu or ru and see you get the frames on setting 6 that i would get on setting 1/2 here and frames dont drop as much or often or even get skipped frames completely. the only thing i asked and i didnt use any abusive or obscene language was questioned the compentency of the cm due to her utter lack of knowledge displayed on twitch to my question and up to that point currently in game and my post was deleted.
  • edited October 2018
    sanj66 wrote: »
    there are other people than myself that went through the dmca and explained it albeit on another forum, and the case you posted was very much disimilar.

    I addressed those dissimilarities you claimed very clearly (also addressed by other cases posted in the thread), but anyway, like I said (both here and there), it was always irrelevant to the real issue at hand: somehow preserving the positive uses of these banned tools.

    sanj66 wrote: »
    the only thing i asked and i didnt use any abusive or obscene language was questioned the compentency of the cm due to her utter lack of knowledge

    If you go to a bar and use words to pick a fight with someone, the bouncer is going to kick you out. Doesn't matter if you think the words were "the truth" or that they "needed to be said." You might go in there, say them, with the intention of being kicked out, having said your bit... but it doesn't change how it works. You don't complain that the bouncer is doing their job; if you're going to act that way, you accept the consequence before you take the action, or you don't do it at all. (Unless you're drunk, in which case it's still your fault, and you're still kicked out.)

    If you really wanted to, there are lots of constructive ways to express the point. But if you're going to be like that, the bouncer is going to kick you out. Don't act surprised or pretend to be offended when they do.
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    you ever type up a large wall of text and think "well hope they have fun reading that."
  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    Oh on my 5th +9 gear since RKEM and good for you, you have low ping that can remotely *gasps* play 446 dungeons without too much issues. Ever had a time where in RKE your FPS dips so hard during the RKE trigger? Ever had a time where your dodge or iframe glitches into hidden invisible boxes into the boss, causing you to teleport around the boss? Had a time where your movement skills teleport you back to where you came from? Congratulations! You finally figured out why proxy and 3rd party modules existed!

    And for the record, I have also been playing for over 5 years in Tera, and having played with both high and low ping in different servers, as well as delving into the technicalities of the netcode implementation, with a bout of me literally dissassembling the entire program and understanding their implementation from the machine codes, I suppose calling you narcissistic is the most apt word, since you conveniently left out all the bugs/issues and glitches in Tera, despite many people having known about them, troubleshooted them, and even came up with a solution for it, only to be branded by you as "cheaters". What a way to thank them indeed!

    Yeah, it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not. If I get caught by a fate on lachelith because I didn't end my bull rush with a move that sends a packet firmly planting myself on the safe ground instead of rubberbanding back in to the circle, I blame myself, because it's happened, I figured it out, and now I know better. You sure do like to use that n word for someone who both brought up 'relevancy' and wants to compare crotch cup sizes in experience. I don't lag on S bomb because I used to have issues years ago running the game, found out why, and when I purchased a new CPU as you probably should have definitely done in the span of this game, just based on how old your PC would be by now if you hadn't, and I kept in mind that both BDO and TERA were single core CPU bound with barely any spillover to a second core, and I purchased accordingly. Otherwise it woulda been zen all the way for me.

    All you see is high DPS and being able to ignore trap runs, and mechanics. You know what makes me feel like a good player? Knowing that even if a lot of the players I encounter in a random IMS run hit the dirt, that I'll be able to do the mechanics, and clutch as hard as I can. I got some old friends from Ama I can think back to and laugh at this point for helping me do pass runs back in VSHM, you know, the dungeon with two bosses that have been in the game a long time now. Having only lower geared players join the LFG for a couple badge passes looking for a skilled clear in exchange, it was hilarious to watch top tier players eat it on mechanics they just weren't used to seeing because they generally skipped the mechanics.

    Or is hitting a paw for 57 seconds so you can get a cut of 350k the way this game is meant to be played?

    You are really interesting because "it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not." You do know there is a huge difference between ping tax, and FPS lag right? My own PC which does not lag a single bit on BF1 and Crysis 3 (Mind you over 144+ fps on BF1 with vsync), lags on Tera, so what is your logic here. I could see my FPS on Tera (In which I editted the config file to sync with my monitor) jump from over 200-300 fps to less than 10 fps during any run. That alone to you is "Well due to server location" yea, have fun believing that. If you absolutely want to know my spec, its an i7-6700k OC 4.5 GHz with a GTX 1080 SC on a ROG board. So logic? I am a junkie that frequently upgrades my PC parts, so take PC out of your argument, its irrelevant.

    You are not being relevant here. All of your arguments conveniently left out the issues which you clearly don't bother understanding, isn't that the very definition of a narcissist. I don't give a damn about your IMS runs and your subpar clutch that eats ping tax, you are clearly not playing the game the way its meant to be played, and that is what we are angry about, not being to play it. To you, we see only high DPS, to us, we compete in parses, and that is what makes it challenging in a whole new playing field. You may have different requirements as you aren't as competitive as us, but its our playing field, and so who are you to talk about things that involves the competitive scene when you are not even involved in it. If you think we facetank certain mechs and more, think again. A lot of the things we do in parse runs are deliberate, and we run several times over and over till we get a high parse due to good rng, similar to speedrunning. Some facetanking is done because we know we can facetank, due to gear and skills like TOB.

    HH raids are simply an example of the high tier players leaving, and we only did it because we could sell/get the brooch. That is merely a part of getting quick money. Stop trying to bring up useless points that are irrelevant to the DMCA issue at hand. You can brand proxy users as cheaters all you want, but know that all the "cheats" you known about, are all doable without proxy, and were done without proxy anyways. The first emporium fiasco was done with cheat engine fyi, and memeslash is completely doable without proxy. Where is your argument that proxy users are cheater when they just want to play with no ping tax.
  • Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here

    Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.

    If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.

    I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone

    I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters
  • xTriDevilx wrote: »
    Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here

    yeah sorry mate I guess everyone just forgot that the only two places in the entire world that exist are EU and NA. I'll just move over to EU now so I can get 350 ping instead of 250 ping. I appreciate the incredible advice.

  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    xTriDevilx wrote: »
    Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here

    Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.

    If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.

    I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone

    I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters

    fr6I7VB.png

    East Coast NA, btw.

    My ping was 50ms until 1-2 years ago when they decided to get crappy servers and ever since I play with 100-110ms and with ping spikes ranging from 250-1000ms every 10-30 minutes.
  • DYLW5HFXJHDYLW5HFXJH ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    Oh on my 5th +9 gear since RKEM and good for you, you have low ping that can remotely *gasps* play 446 dungeons without too much issues. Ever had a time where in RKE your FPS dips so hard during the RKE trigger? Ever had a time where your dodge or iframe glitches into hidden invisible boxes into the boss, causing you to teleport around the boss? Had a time where your movement skills teleport you back to where you came from? Congratulations! You finally figured out why proxy and 3rd party modules existed!

    And for the record, I have also been playing for over 5 years in Tera, and having played with both high and low ping in different servers, as well as delving into the technicalities of the netcode implementation, with a bout of me literally dissassembling the entire program and understanding their implementation from the machine codes, I suppose calling you narcissistic is the most apt word, since you conveniently left out all the bugs/issues and glitches in Tera, despite many people having known about them, troubleshooted them, and even came up with a solution for it, only to be branded by you as "cheaters". What a way to thank them indeed!

    Yeah, it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not. If I get caught by a fate on lachelith because I didn't end my bull rush with a move that sends a packet firmly planting myself on the safe ground instead of rubberbanding back in to the circle, I blame myself, because it's happened, I figured it out, and now I know better. You sure do like to use that n word for someone who both brought up 'relevancy' and wants to compare crotch cup sizes in experience. I don't lag on S bomb because I used to have issues years ago running the game, found out why, and when I purchased a new CPU as you probably should have definitely done in the span of this game, just based on how old your PC would be by now if you hadn't, and I kept in mind that both BDO and TERA were single core CPU bound with barely any spillover to a second core, and I purchased accordingly. Otherwise it woulda been zen all the way for me.

    All you see is high DPS and being able to ignore trap runs, and mechanics. You know what makes me feel like a good player? Knowing that even if a lot of the players I encounter in a random IMS run hit the dirt, that I'll be able to do the mechanics, and clutch as hard as I can. I got some old friends from Ama I can think back to and laugh at this point for helping me do pass runs back in VSHM, you know, the dungeon with two bosses that have been in the game a long time now. Having only lower geared players join the LFG for a couple badge passes looking for a skilled clear in exchange, it was hilarious to watch top tier players eat it on mechanics they just weren't used to seeing because they generally skipped the mechanics.

    Or is hitting a paw for 57 seconds so you can get a cut of 350k the way this game is meant to be played?

    You are really interesting because "it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not." You do know there is a huge difference between ping tax, and FPS lag right? My own PC which does not lag a single bit on BF1 and Crysis 3 (Mind you over 144+ fps on BF1 with vsync), lags on Tera, so what is your logic here. I could see my FPS on Tera (In which I editted the config file to sync with my monitor) jump from over 200-300 fps to less than 10 fps during any run. That alone to you is "Well due to server location" yea, have fun believing that. If you absolutely want to know my spec, its an i7-6700k OC 4.5 GHz with a GTX 1080 SC on a ROG board. So logic? I am a junkie that frequently upgrades my PC parts, so take PC out of your argument, its irrelevant.

    You are not being relevant here. All of your arguments conveniently left out the issues which you clearly don't bother understanding, isn't that the very definition of a narcissist. I don't give a damn about your IMS runs and your subpar clutch that eats ping tax, you are clearly not playing the game the way its meant to be played, and that is what we are angry about, not being to play it. To you, we see only high DPS, to us, we compete in parses, and that is what makes it challenging in a whole new playing field. You may have different requirements as you aren't as competitive as us, but its our playing field, and so who are you to talk about things that involves the competitive scene when you are not even involved in it. If you think we facetank certain mechs and more, think again. A lot of the things we do in parse runs are deliberate, and we run several times over and over till we get a high parse due to good rng, similar to speedrunning. Some facetanking is done because we know we can facetank, due to gear and skills like TOB.

    HH raids are simply an example of the high tier players leaving, and we only did it because we could sell/get the brooch. That is merely a part of getting quick money. Stop trying to bring up useless points that are irrelevant to the DMCA issue at hand. You can brand proxy users as cheaters all you want, but know that all the "cheats" you known about, are all doable without proxy, and were done without proxy anyways. The first emporium fiasco was done with cheat engine fyi, and memeslash is completely doable without proxy. Where is your argument that proxy users are cheater when they just want to play with no ping tax.

    You said your frames skip on the first S bomb, I responded with I don't get that because my CPU is specifically chosen for the things that tera needs. Maybe you don't understand this, but the requirements of BF1 are not the requirements of TERA. I literally just told you what the biggest bottleneck for tera is and you wanna mouth off about your 1080 6700 is decent, you should set your affinity, and make sure you're running from an SSD because your skip could be a cache issue as well. I can't believe you forgot what you said and confused it with me saying fps vs ping lag lmfao.

    I wish you actually knew my history in this game but you don't so I'll forgive you for being as toxic as you are. I don't know yours either but frankly I don't mind or care too much either way. You chose to play a game you knew had issues and bugs for years and you knew third party add-ons were going to be a point of contention as they have been several times over the last two years. You can sit here and say that you want to be on top of the competitive scene all you'd like, but beyond SP requires a lot more modules and expenses to third party than you'd like to admit to do.

    I'm sure pubg cheaters love being at the top of the leaderboards too for being able to parse their kills via client side injections.
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