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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

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Comments

  • DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    DYLW5HFXJH wrote: »
    P2W wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Yea even after the "drop", NA's PvE CU still has more going on than EU's PvP CU. Here's NA's PvP CU for a more fair comparison:
    Qu2aAZ5.png

    Thank you for admitting that there is a "drop" in population. Some people are still trying to deny that fact. A massive population drop 2 weeks after a server merge is not a good sign.

    It's a great sign when it comes from a host of cheaters. Like yeah, we probably lost some good players to a tough decision. However, at the end of the day, you are fighting an uphill battle with honey coated sandals on. All you can really link is steamcharts which is worse than a slight piece of evidence. We're in this a month after school year started, comparing to summer numbers, and I already told you in a previous thread that there is less than a 20% difference between now and a month or two ago based on steam charts, and more likely a less than 10% drop overall. Yes, we probably lost a lot of dedicated, paying players because they got accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but that's exactly the problem, they got accustomed to being able to do things a certain way, some of them even going out of their way to pay extra for special treatment with their ways, and threw a fit when they were no longer allowed. I assure you this does not affect the bottom line of players who IMS all day, which is a surprisingly large amount of players. How many of those CH players you think actually argue over proxy?

    At the end of the day, this whole argument is generally about the top performing 5-20% of players on TERA. If it affects mid tier and low tier players, I do not believe it is a large impact, if any at all.

    Lost "some" good players yea, how is 50-75% of the end-tier PVE "some" good players. Considering how many HH raids have cancelled due to this issue, as well as the number of AAHM runs that dropped due to the lack of players, your "some" seems to be a lot more than you think.

    Also, if you think that proxy with SP is cheating, think again. That statement alone is enough to deduce that you are not a player who runs 446+ dungeons, let alone 453 AAHM. Btw Steamcharts are not accurate because, I don't use Steam, so do plenty of others?

    The way you conveniently left out all the issues, bugs and glitches that Tera has just for your point of a "certain lifestyle" is so narcissistic and ignorant, sounds to me like you are a low-tier player, who gets carried by mid-high tier players all the time.

    Just a little knowledge on Tera for you, 50-75% of high tier runs is enough to kill a game, and IMS and BG queue are a lot longer. So where is you "5-20%" of players going off?

    Bruh I'm on my 3rd +9 set since RKEM and no I don't swipe. Like the other dude said, third party still working for a week. If HH is being canceled 2 weeks before it's even and issue that's their prerogative. My guilds HH raid is full, and mostly full in the second with alt fill. You call me narcissistic for playing the game the way it was for 4+ years before SP like I should start taking steroids or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it.

    Your argument is hilarious. "Doesn't run third party modules must not be relevant to the topic" as if you haven't had two large guild leaders in here, one being a player council member, recounting exactly what is wrong with the advantages that were brought to the "QoL" debate.

    Oh on my 5th +9 gear since RKEM and good for you, you have low ping that can remotely *gasps* play 446 dungeons without too much issues. Ever had a time where in RKE your FPS dips so hard during the RKE trigger? Ever had a time where your dodge or iframe glitches into hidden invisible boxes into the boss, causing you to teleport around the boss? Had a time where your movement skills teleport you back to where you came from? Congratulations! You finally figured out why proxy and 3rd party modules existed!

    And for the record, I have also been playing for over 5 years in Tera, and having played with both high and low ping in different servers, as well as delving into the technicalities of the netcode implementation, with a bout of me literally dissassembling the entire program and understanding their implementation from the machine codes, I suppose calling you narcissistic is the most apt word, since you conveniently left out all the bugs/issues and glitches in Tera, despite many people having known about them, troubleshooted them, and even came up with a solution for it, only to be branded by you as "cheaters". What a way to thank them indeed!

    Yeah, it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not. If I get caught by a fate on lachelith because I didn't end my bull rush with a move that sends a packet firmly planting myself on the safe ground instead of rubberbanding back in to the circle, I blame myself, because it's happened, I figured it out, and now I know better. You sure do like to use that n word for someone who both brought up 'relevancy' and wants to compare crotch cup sizes in experience. I don't lag on S bomb because I used to have issues years ago running the game, found out why, and when I purchased a new CPU as you probably should have definitely done in the span of this game, just based on how old your PC would be by now if you hadn't, and I kept in mind that both BDO and TERA were single core CPU bound with barely any spillover to a second core, and I purchased accordingly. Otherwise it woulda been zen all the way for me.

    All you see is high DPS and being able to ignore trap runs, and mechanics. You know what makes me feel like a good player? Knowing that even if a lot of the players I encounter in a random IMS run hit the dirt, that I'll be able to do the mechanics, and clutch as hard as I can. I got some old friends from Ama I can think back to and laugh at this point for helping me do pass runs back in VSHM, you know, the dungeon with two bosses that have been in the game a long time now. Having only lower geared players join the LFG for a couple badge passes looking for a skilled clear in exchange, it was hilarious to watch top tier players eat it on mechanics they just weren't used to seeing because they generally skipped the mechanics.

    Or is hitting a paw for 57 seconds so you can get a cut of 350k the way this game is meant to be played?

    You are really interesting because "it's called lag. It's an unfortunate side effect of playing games online and the unfortunate disadvantage of living where the servers are not." You do know there is a huge difference between ping tax, and FPS lag right? My own PC which does not lag a single bit on BF1 and Crysis 3 (Mind you over 144+ fps on BF1 with vsync), lags on Tera, so what is your logic here. I could see my FPS on Tera (In which I editted the config file to sync with my monitor) jump from over 200-300 fps to less than 10 fps during any run. That alone to you is "Well due to server location" yea, have fun believing that. If you absolutely want to know my spec, its an i7-6700k OC 4.5 GHz with a GTX 1080 SC on a ROG board. So logic? I am a junkie that frequently upgrades my PC parts, so take PC out of your argument, its irrelevant.

    You are not being relevant here. All of your arguments conveniently left out the issues which you clearly don't bother understanding, isn't that the very definition of a narcissist. I don't give a damn about your IMS runs and your subpar clutch that eats ping tax, you are clearly not playing the game the way its meant to be played, and that is what we are angry about, not being to play it. To you, we see only high DPS, to us, we compete in parses, and that is what makes it challenging in a whole new playing field. You may have different requirements as you aren't as competitive as us, but its our playing field, and so who are you to talk about things that involves the competitive scene when you are not even involved in it. If you think we facetank certain mechs and more, think again. A lot of the things we do in parse runs are deliberate, and we run several times over and over till we get a high parse due to good rng, similar to speedrunning. Some facetanking is done because we know we can facetank, due to gear and skills like TOB.

    HH raids are simply an example of the high tier players leaving, and we only did it because we could sell/get the brooch. That is merely a part of getting quick money. Stop trying to bring up useless points that are irrelevant to the DMCA issue at hand. You can brand proxy users as cheaters all you want, but know that all the "cheats" you known about, are all doable without proxy, and were done without proxy anyways. The first emporium fiasco was done with cheat engine fyi, and memeslash is completely doable without proxy. Where is your argument that proxy users are cheater when they just want to play with no ping tax.

    You said your frames skip on the first S bomb, I responded with I don't get that because my CPU is specifically chosen for the things that tera needs. Maybe you don't understand this, but the requirements of BF1 are not the requirements of TERA. I literally just told you what the biggest bottleneck for tera is and you wanna mouth off about your 1080 6700 is decent, you should set your affinity, and make sure you're running from an SSD because your skip could be a cache issue as well. I can't believe you forgot what you said and confused it with me saying fps vs ping lag lmfao.

    I wish you actually knew my history in this game but you don't so I'll forgive you for being as toxic as you are. I don't know yours either but frankly I don't mind or care too much either way. You chose to play a game you knew had issues and bugs for years and you knew third party add-ons were going to be a point of contention as they have been several times over the last two years. You can sit here and say that you want to be on top of the competitive scene all you'd like, but beyond SP requires a lot more modules and expenses to third party than you'd like to admit to do.

    I'm sure pubg cheaters love being at the top of the leaderboards too for being able to parse their kills via client side injections.

    Which part of RKEM trigger is the first S-Bomb, oh wait you are dumb enough not to read properly I forgot. You want to know how I knew it will lag then, simple, there is a memory leak hardcode in that particular dungeon that triggers due to the spaghetti coding that has to deal with the GPU sprite, sending it to your CPU instead, and on top of that, causing a single threaded bottleneck due to the sheer quantity of things to be rendered during the shield phase. The render code may trigger depending on the system's memory leak in future mechanics, which is why you see a huge frame drop when shield phases are triggered. And for the record, all my drives are SSDs so your point? And if you seriously want to fight with me in terms of hardware, this system was custom tuned by myself for gaming and Tera in particular with a separate system for recording and streaming, and the entire setup had a huge amount of work done specifically to optimise performance, so your point? PS the first time I ever heard someone tell me Tera lags due to CPU cache overhead, go back and study your computer science, its clear you are lacking in PC knowledge compared to me.

    I wish you actually knew my history in the game to know that you are not a big name guy as you think you are. For that, I forgive you for being ignorant and ill-informed a casual. I don't give a damn about toxicity or whatever big names you want to bring out, I only judge people by what they do. What we are upset about is the fact that we are no longer able to play the game as it was intended in the first place, and that you are merely inflaming the situation by typing your ill-thought, uninformed and ignorant comment over the issue.

    Not only did you not bother understanding how SP works, you have little knowledge about game development and implementation in general. Before you type a single comment, go and look up Client-Skill Prediction under wikipedia yea. Several big game titles used this implementation without any big issues, so your point about us not being able to implement it in Tera is completely farce, especially given that even the community devs have did it, only for you to brand them as "cheaters", continue kissing the backsides of these "propaganda" yea.

    Oh yes and btw, I'm sure the Fortnite cheaters are getting banned En Masse (Oops I used it), just goes to show the difference between game dev companies and the amount of care they have for their players.

    Also big BTW, seems like you don't even know what parse runs are. You should shut your mouth in that field if you don't know what you are talking about yea.
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    why are you arguing about an obsolete dungeon that no one parses or even runs anymore

    according to mg the last time you ran that dg was back in may--nearly 5 months ago
  • If u really are that tech savvy, then why are u using someone else's proxy?
    Don't u know that using public proxy from the internet is a big no-no?

    This 'DMCA takedown' are only against those that EME have identified that actively working in violation of their Term of Service.
    They didn't exclusively targeted the 'skill prediction proxy'. None of the GMs said anything about the 'skill prediction' software at all. Even Denommenator's announcement didn't mentioned it. Maybe I missed it, but I read nothing about EME going on a banning spree to everyone and anyone that are using non-malicious 3rd party programs.

    Its funny to see people calling other people for falling into 'publisher's propaganda', yet they themselves are frothing in the mouth defending and trying to explain things they barely know. Skill prediction program are made in-house btw. All those unofficial version SP software of other games that u see in the internet are used in private servers, LAN parties, not in official servers.

    Fortnite doesnt ban u... yet, huh? Well, Fortnite do HWID ban.
    That'll will show u how much 'love' they have for u.
    :smiley:
  • If u really are that tech savvy, then why are u using someone else's proxy?
    Don't u know that using public proxy from the internet is a big no-no?

    This 'DMCA takedown' are only against those that EME have identified that actively working in violation of their Term of Service.
    They didn't exclusively targeted the 'skill prediction proxy'. None of the GMs said anything about the 'skill prediction' software at all. Even Denommenator's announcement didn't mentioned it. Maybe I missed it, but I read nothing about EME going on a banning spree to everyone and anyone that are using non-malicious 3rd party programs.

    Its funny to see people calling other people for falling into 'publisher's propaganda', yet they themselves are frothing in the mouth defending and trying to explain things they barely know. Skill prediction program are made in-house btw. All those unofficial version SP software of other games that u see in the internet are used in private servers, LAN parties, not in official servers.

    Fortnite doesnt ban u... yet, huh? Well, Fortnite do HWID ban.
    That'll will show u how much 'love' they have for u.
    :smiley:

    You are ill-informed about your stuff, go read up first before commenting. You clearly do not know anything about the drama right now between the players and mEME, especially Saabi's post about the issue, before you sound like an out of context [filtered].
    metagame wrote: »
    why are you arguing about an obsolete dungeon that no one parses or even runs anymore

    according to mg the last time you ran that dg was back in may--nearly 5 months ago

    It was not even arguing about an obsolete dungeon, it was merely to show 1 portion of the game where it has issues, now apply that to all the other dungeons and you get my point about game issues.
  • > @Pwhoops said:
    > xTriDevilx wrote: »
    >
    > Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here
    >
    > Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.
    >
    > If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.
    >
    > I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone
    >
    > I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > East Coast NA, btw.
    >
    > My ping was 50ms until 1-2 years ago when they decided to get crappy servers and ever since I play with 100-110ms and with ping spikes ranging from 250-1000ms every 10-30 minutes.

    im in east coast and i get 24-50 ping... must be eme's fault then....
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    now apply that to all the other dungeons and you get my point about game issues.
    such as?
  • metagame wrote: »
    now apply that to all the other dungeons and you get my point about game issues.
    such as?

    Dude are you so ill-informed about dungeon bugs you can't even track them on your own? Here are just some, KD (Both NM and HM), heavy FPS dip during rain sprites and water mechs, FINM dead FPS during 3rd boss cross pattern, FIHM FPS dip during mech. SSHM FPS dip during cage mechanics, as well as disappearing mech circles for some players, class bug for classes who does lots of multihits, where packets are improperly handled by the server, resulting in client memory leak and thus huge fps dip during skill casts.

    You don't have to be a genius to know these are already known issues and bugs. At least take the liberty to read up on stuff instead of needing people to spoonfeed them for you.
  • The proxies are gone.

    Get over it already.

    Arguing like entitled children will do nothing.

    Move on people....
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    Dude are you so ill-informed about dungeon bugs you can't even track them on your own? Here are just some, KD (Both NM and HM), heavy FPS dip during rain sprites and water mechs, FINM dead FPS during 3rd boss cross pattern, FIHM FPS dip during mech. SSHM FPS dip during cage mechanics, as well as disappearing mech circles for some players
    none of these dungeons are relevant either

    try again
  • TeraNuibe wrote: »
    > @Pwhoops said:
    > xTriDevilx wrote: »
    >
    > Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here
    >
    > Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.
    >
    > If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.
    >
    > I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone
    >
    > I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > East Coast NA, btw.
    >
    > My ping was 50ms until 1-2 years ago when they decided to get crappy servers and ever since I play with 100-110ms and with ping spikes ranging from 250-1000ms every 10-30 minutes.

    im in east coast and i get 24-50 ping... must be eme's fault then....

    he chose cheap internet service and complaining about ping ahahahaha lol.
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    > @Melyodis said:
    > TeraNuibe wrote: »
    >
    > > @Pwhoops said:
    > > xTriDevilx wrote: »
    > >
    > > Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here
    > >
    > > Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.
    > >
    > > If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.
    > >
    > > I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone
    > >
    > > I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > East Coast NA, btw.
    > >
    > > My ping was 50ms until 1-2 years ago when they decided to get crappy servers and ever since I play with 100-110ms and with ping spikes ranging from 250-1000ms every 10-30 minutes.
    >
    > im in east coast and i get 24-50 ping... must be eme's fault then....
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > he chose cheap internet service and complaining about ping ahahahaha lol.

    I guess you all forgot to read the part that says “1-2 years ago my ping was 50ms,” but no, I actually have 100mbps download speed, and I live in FL. The fact that my ping went from 50ms to 100ms with occasional ping spikes up to 1000ms when nothing has changed (other than their servers) should let you ignoramuses know that this is EME’s fault, furthermore, there has been a thread for more than 2 years asking for player diagnostics, so that they can try and fix the issue, and guess what, it hasn’t been fixed.
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/18831/keep-submitting-diags#latest
    This goes way farther back than November 17, over 2 years of lag and serverside ping.
  • PwhoopsPwhoops ✭✭✭
    > @TeraNuibe said:
    > > @Pwhoops said:
    > > xTriDevilx wrote: »
    > >
    > > Proxy ban is a good thing IMO. Never used one, never needed to use one. EU players playing on NA servers complaining about high ping, that's why the GameForge/EU servers exist. Go there if you don't like the lag here
    > >
    > > Proxies were heavily abused in BG's. People injecting through gates, 0-ping players, auto-rotation and being able to chain skills with 0 delay in between (you can have 15-30ms ping and tap your skills on the keyboard 1,000,000/sec and you'd still never execute skills back-to-back as quickly as someone using proxy, that's unfair), healers with their auto-lock(sort of like aimbotting) and of course, memeslashers.
    > >
    > > If you need a script to execute attacks for you and auto-lock opponents for you, you probably shouldn't be playing. That's not skill, that's cheating..real skill involves good motor function, muscle memory, and more.
    > >
    > > I did like what it did for players with high-ping in PVE, eliminating ping tax and all. But I'm primarily PVP and only play PVE when PVP que stops popping. And in PVP, were giving players an unfair advantage. It had to go, and I'm glad it's gone
    > >
    > > I'd rather the game die than have it flooded with cheaters
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > East Coast NA, btw.
    > >
    > > My ping was 50ms until 1-2 years ago when they decided to get crappy servers and ever since I play with 100-110ms and with ping spikes ranging from 250-1000ms every 10-30 minutes.
    >
    > im in east coast and i get 24-50 ping... must be eme's fault then....

    But hey, you’re the only star in the whole wide galaxy, so... if your ping is fine it automatically means that everything should be fine with everyone else, and that if it’s not then it’s my problem and EME has nothing to do with it. All of this you deduce from the fact you’re part of the lucky few whose ping has no problems. If ignorance were a crime you’d be serving a life sentence along with decorated whiteknight @Melyodis
  • metagame wrote: »
    Dude are you so ill-informed about dungeon bugs you can't even track them on your own? Here are just some, KD (Both NM and HM), heavy FPS dip during rain sprites and water mechs, FINM dead FPS during 3rd boss cross pattern, FIHM FPS dip during mech. SSHM FPS dip during cage mechanics, as well as disappearing mech circles for some players
    none of these dungeons are relevant either

    try again

    None of them are relevant huh. I said some, not all, AAHM 1st boss glitches out on circle mech, FPS dips on 2nd boss, and 3rd boss final mech bug, not relevant huh. Not to mention de-enrage bugs.

    You should seriously just shut up.
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