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Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]
This is a pretty long-winded message for you, and I'll preface it by saying, it's not a post ripping you down. It's some honest advice (albeit pretty strongly worded) from someone who just wants to see this game - and you - succeed as community manager.
"The TERA community has felt unheard and under-served for some time now. Many of you may feel numb to messages and community addresses that come off like platitudes. The current Community Team at En Masse is well aware of this situation and taking lengths to remedy this over time and in response to this specific situation."
This part made me kinda angry... It's not *just* the Community Team's job to speak to the player base, KTC - You're the CM for this game. Get on these forums and TALK TO PEOPLE!! Tonka, Spacecats, hell, even Danicia on rare occasion, came onto the forums to talk to people.
Honestly! A couple of messages a day, an equivalent to maybe five or ten minutes of your day to come on here and actually speak with the community you manage is all it would really take to start swinging the public's opinion of you back into a better light. Reply to some posts, or even start one of your own, ask questions, people here will respond to that.
The issue we're having right now is that the community feels ignored BECAUSE WE ARE IGNORED.
Half of us who have been here for a few years or longer just want to sit down and talk with someone who will listen to the things we're desperately trying to bring to your attention (things that are hurting this game worse than proxy and the cheaters) and not just keep throwing text at a wall praying it'll get read by someone at EME. Your community has zero faith left in your company because we've been reduced to doing just that for the last few years. Throwing text at a wall and hoping it splats hard enough someone at EME notices.
You're the current sitting CM of EME for Tera - you're in THE POSITION to start changing that outlook players have on your company. And all it takes, is just a couple of minutes out of your day every day to come onto these forums and talk to us.
You know what? Better yet! No joking here, load up Tera and play with a few of us, run some dungeons and get on discord chat with us - hell, even get on voice chat with some of us. I'm sure plenty of us would be happy to organize a static party and help teach you about this game if you'd just give us the time of day to do so. I'd even dust off and gear up my Priest to heal for you if that's what it takes.
I swear, we're not normally this bitter and vitriolic - It's just that we just want someone, namely you, really, to actually come onto this public space and listen to us for five minutes and take some of our concerns seriously, and more importantly, respond back and let people know you're actually reading this stuff.
Yes, you'll get some bitter people that - no matter what you say - they'll be pissed. It kinda comes with the territory when you're the CM trying to help dig a game out of as deep of a public relations hole as Tera's in right now. But as time goes people will get used to seeing you on the forums and they'll come around. You'll find out who are the more reasonable and seasoned people to listen to, and who to ignore for just being a petulant angry kid kicking up dirt to start drama.
Either way, I've taken a lot longer than 5-10 minutes to write this so I'm gonna end it here. Feel free to reply back if you wanna let me or others know you're reading this stuff - it'll definitely shut a few nay-sayers up.
that statement by the CM is just another canned response full of platitudes and feel good phrases that basically comes down to "we still have nothing to show for all your anger and frustration but this time we promise for sure we'll be more diligent". Just like a rehearsed politician a whole lot of nothing. Definitely not worth re-installing.
Time it takes EnMasse to submit a bunch of DMCA takedown notices against multiple sites and individuals after doing their investigation to make sure they pick them all up in one go: ~24hours
Time it takes EnMasse to write up yet another nice PR wall of text non-reply after promising to have "meaningful updates" and "something to share early next week": ~8days
Time it takes EnMasse to truly engage with BlueHole to fix pervasive performance issues, make an effort to bridge a deteriorating relation with the player community and many other problems pointed out by so many people since at least 1+ year ago: NaN/Still waiting
Hope for nothing at this point, third on the list is the most irritating of all of them, you know, by just playing the game, and actually engaging with the community and the player council you could have avoided all of this, it can't be stressed hard enough the fact that you waited until the very last moment and the harshest of community reactions to hit you the hardest to actually try and come up with something... that is still promises in the air...
Honestly not been active mostly this year in-game mostly because of friends leaving and not being able to play for 30mins straight before FPS totally tanked, with the hope that somehow some progress would be made finally to acknowledge these issues that have been here since forever already, but as time passes only the disappointment increases.
In my opinion, only reason EME started to care, or so it seems, was due to a high amount of chargebacks.
Unfortunately, companies will only care once they start losing money.
I'll post here stating
As you've said to empower the existing mod (had to correct post from model to mod hate phone auto word complete) community toward sanctioned approved fixes
If you can do that and it works and approved to help with the issues needing addressing , and even if its price but not extortion prices , I my self would be more than happy to pay for it rather than utilising a VPN that doesn't help rectify my ping issues
And I fell others would be more than happy to support a like wise situation as well helping to support the development needed in a way
I know this has been said many times, but I guess it bears repeating. The best way to address the persistent UI issues is to just start over and PLEASE DO NOT USE ADOBE SCALEFORM! IT. IS. BAAAAD. Why? Because it's basically Flash, with all the vulnerabilities and poor performance.
I only been on this game for a short time. But reading all the comments on on this threads and from my guild discord and the article from caali.
THERE IS ONE INCIDENT OF "BHS" THAT U EME NEED TO LEARN FROM IT.
IF u know PUBG a game that surpass Dota 2 player and the game that popularized BR genre
BHS sue a PUBG-Fortnite copyright issue of BR. This issue make PUBG disconnected from community and make most player based leave the game that lead to a dying game. What BHS did wrong is they sue a Fking genre which they also copy from H1z1 and BR movie. BHS know this and they finally make a connection with the community, hear what the community want and fix the game problem.
Now this game is at the state of dying or most of the player base start to leave. Now what U EME NEED TO DO NOW IS TO MAKE A CONNECTION BRIDGE WITH THE COMMUNITY LIKE, TALK TO THE COMMUNITY, GIVE WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANT. DON'T JUST DO A
-900 IQ
Without thinking possible damage. See today now ??? Most of my guild mates leave to EU or stop playing. Que took way longer than it used to and the real cheater Still on the wild.
- sorry if there is an offensive word this current problem must be solved ASAP -
Remove the dmca and re-allow Caali and other developers to do what they were doing before until an official mod platform is created. We don't have the patience for this long term solution to come.
@Jerichow kitteacup has run dungeon with private friend groups on stream and off stream. but most of it is like leveling charcter to 65. lvl priest from 1- 65 then next 2 weeks level warrior then brawler. something like that. very few sometime run showcase dungeon middle - hard tier with these group but it is rare. but interaction wise she just play with select friend from pc council off screen
@KitTeaCup In light of todays statement by EME, will players that have previously been (and are still being) banned from EME communication platforms for trying to communicate issues, bugs and resolutions to the issues and bugs be allowed allowed to access these communication platforms?
I am aware of players that would like to discuss with EME, but are unable to do so due to this issue.
Remove the dmca and re-allow Caali and other developers to do what they were doing before until an official mod platform is created. We don't have the patience for this long term solution to come.
Unfortunately, there are legally binding documents involved in submitting a DMCA. In revoking of the DMCA, the person that signed it becomes liable for criminal charges for submitting a DMCA that was then revoked at a later point in time.
I know this has been said many times, but I guess it bears repeating. The best way to address the persistent UI issues is to just start over and PLEASE DO NOT USE ADOBE SCALEFORM! IT. IS. BAAAAD. Why? Because it's basically Flash, with all the vulnerabilities and poor performance.
Eh... Scaleform is a subset of Flash, not the full Flash VM afaik. UE3 has shipped with it built-in for a long time. It's also only slow in Tera for two reasons:
1) The version of UE3 that Tera was built on is from a time when there was no hardware acceleration support in Scaleform (or Flash in general). This has been fixed in later UE3 builds. This means later UE3 editions have hardware-accelerated Scaleform.
2) BHS can't code and never optimizes anything worth a damn.
Here's a short list of games using Scaleform:
Battlefield 3 (released 2011)
Skyrim (2011)
Mass Effect 2 (2010)
The Witcher 2 (2011)
CS:GO (2012)
GTA 5 (2013)
And these are just the names that jumped out at me. Source.
Yikes, dug their own grave then. Can they still just explicitly tell them it's okay and pretend it's not there?
Indeed, and worse yet, even if EME did voluntarily fall on their own sword, figuratively speaking, and take the brunt of the legal fallout from backing out of the DMCA - The 3rd party developers like caali have already made it explicitly clear that they are done with EME for the way they've been treated for years now.
This is now literally an un-winnable position for EME to be in unless one or more of the 3rd party devs backs down on their word and actually helps EME out. Even then, the damage is done, and people who have left are not likely to come back. No sarcasm or exaggeration here when I say - Tera in NA will likely never be the same after this is all said and done.
Comments
This is a pretty long-winded message for you, and I'll preface it by saying, it's not a post ripping you down. It's some honest advice (albeit pretty strongly worded) from someone who just wants to see this game - and you - succeed as community manager.
"The TERA community has felt unheard and under-served for some time now. Many of you may feel numb to messages and community addresses that come off like platitudes. The current Community Team at En Masse is well aware of this situation and taking lengths to remedy this over time and in response to this specific situation."
This part made me kinda angry... It's not *just* the Community Team's job to speak to the player base, KTC - You're the CM for this game. Get on these forums and TALK TO PEOPLE!! Tonka, Spacecats, hell, even Danicia on rare occasion, came onto the forums to talk to people.
Honestly! A couple of messages a day, an equivalent to maybe five or ten minutes of your day to come on here and actually speak with the community you manage is all it would really take to start swinging the public's opinion of you back into a better light. Reply to some posts, or even start one of your own, ask questions, people here will respond to that.
The issue we're having right now is that the community feels ignored BECAUSE WE ARE IGNORED.
Half of us who have been here for a few years or longer just want to sit down and talk with someone who will listen to the things we're desperately trying to bring to your attention (things that are hurting this game worse than proxy and the cheaters) and not just keep throwing text at a wall praying it'll get read by someone at EME. Your community has zero faith left in your company because we've been reduced to doing just that for the last few years. Throwing text at a wall and hoping it splats hard enough someone at EME notices.
You're the current sitting CM of EME for Tera - you're in THE POSITION to start changing that outlook players have on your company. And all it takes, is just a couple of minutes out of your day every day to come onto these forums and talk to us.
You know what? Better yet! No joking here, load up Tera and play with a few of us, run some dungeons and get on discord chat with us - hell, even get on voice chat with some of us. I'm sure plenty of us would be happy to organize a static party and help teach you about this game if you'd just give us the time of day to do so. I'd even dust off and gear up my Priest to heal for you if that's what it takes.
I swear, we're not normally this bitter and vitriolic - It's just that we just want someone, namely you, really, to actually come onto this public space and listen to us for five minutes and take some of our concerns seriously, and more importantly, respond back and let people know you're actually reading this stuff.
Yes, you'll get some bitter people that - no matter what you say - they'll be pissed. It kinda comes with the territory when you're the CM trying to help dig a game out of as deep of a public relations hole as Tera's in right now. But as time goes people will get used to seeing you on the forums and they'll come around. You'll find out who are the more reasonable and seasoned people to listen to, and who to ignore for just being a petulant angry kid kicking up dirt to start drama.
Either way, I've taken a lot longer than 5-10 minutes to write this so I'm gonna end it here. Feel free to reply back if you wanna let me or others know you're reading this stuff - it'll definitely shut a few nay-sayers up.
- Time it takes EnMasse to submit a bunch of DMCA takedown notices against multiple sites and individuals after doing their investigation to make sure they pick them all up in one go: ~24hours
- Time it takes EnMasse to write up yet another nice PR wall of text non-reply after promising to have "meaningful updates" and "something to share early next week": ~8days
- Time it takes EnMasse to truly engage with BlueHole to fix pervasive performance issues, make an effort to bridge a deteriorating relation with the player community and many other problems pointed out by so many people since at least 1+ year ago: NaN/Still waiting
Hope for nothing at this point, third on the list is the most irritating of all of them, you know, by just playing the game, and actually engaging with the community and the player council you could have avoided all of this, it can't be stressed hard enough the fact that you waited until the very last moment and the harshest of community reactions to hit you the hardest to actually try and come up with something... that is still promises in the air...Honestly not been active mostly this year in-game mostly because of friends leaving and not being able to play for 30mins straight before FPS totally tanked, with the hope that somehow some progress would be made finally to acknowledge these issues that have been here since forever already, but as time passes only the disappointment increases.
Unfortunately, companies will only care once they start losing money.
As you've said to empower the existing mod (had to correct post from model to mod hate phone auto word complete) community toward sanctioned approved fixes
If you can do that and it works and approved to help with the issues needing addressing , and even if its price but not extortion prices , I my self would be more than happy to pay for it rather than utilising a VPN that doesn't help rectify my ping issues
And I fell others would be more than happy to support a like wise situation as well helping to support the development needed in a way
THERE IS ONE INCIDENT OF "BHS" THAT U EME NEED TO LEARN FROM IT.
IF u know PUBG a game that surpass Dota 2 player and the game that popularized BR genre
BHS sue a PUBG-Fortnite copyright issue of BR. This issue make PUBG disconnected from community and make most player based leave the game that lead to a dying game. What BHS did wrong is they sue a Fking genre which they also copy from H1z1 and BR movie. BHS know this and they finally make a connection with the community, hear what the community want and fix the game problem.
Now this game is at the state of dying or most of the player base start to leave. Now what U EME NEED TO DO NOW IS TO MAKE A CONNECTION BRIDGE WITH THE COMMUNITY LIKE, TALK TO THE COMMUNITY, GIVE WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANT. DON'T JUST DO A
-900 IQ
Without thinking possible damage. See today now ??? Most of my guild mates leave to EU or stop playing. Que took way longer than it used to and the real cheater Still on the wild.
- sorry if there is an offensive word this current problem must be solved ASAP -
I am aware of players that would like to discuss with EME, but are unable to do so due to this issue.
Unfortunately, there are legally binding documents involved in submitting a DMCA. In revoking of the DMCA, the person that signed it becomes liable for criminal charges for submitting a DMCA that was then revoked at a later point in time.
Eh... Scaleform is a subset of Flash, not the full Flash VM afaik. UE3 has shipped with it built-in for a long time. It's also only slow in Tera for two reasons:
1) The version of UE3 that Tera was built on is from a time when there was no hardware acceleration support in Scaleform (or Flash in general). This has been fixed in later UE3 builds. This means later UE3 editions have hardware-accelerated Scaleform.
2) BHS can't code and never optimizes anything worth a damn.
Here's a short list of games using Scaleform:
Battlefield 3 (released 2011)
Skyrim (2011)
Mass Effect 2 (2010)
The Witcher 2 (2011)
CS:GO (2012)
GTA 5 (2013)
And these are just the names that jumped out at me. Source.
Indeed, and worse yet, even if EME did voluntarily fall on their own sword, figuratively speaking, and take the brunt of the legal fallout from backing out of the DMCA - The 3rd party developers like caali have already made it explicitly clear that they are done with EME for the way they've been treated for years now.
This is now literally an un-winnable position for EME to be in unless one or more of the 3rd party devs backs down on their word and actually helps EME out. Even then, the damage is done, and people who have left are not likely to come back. No sarcasm or exaggeration here when I say - Tera in NA will likely never be the same after this is all said and done.