We're having maintenance Tuesday, November 20 from 8 - 11 am PDT (three hours).

Recent DMCA Takedowns of Third-Party Programs - Discussion [Updated: November 8th]

1585961636473

Comments

  • Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13
    KitTeaCup wrote: »
    Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).

    lol
    edit: sorry for the low effort response, but it's the only response that makes sense at this point. all our feedback goes unanswered, the only responses we get to issues are "look, things to buy!" and "ok just wait." well, it's pretty obvious to anyone who actually plays tera just how well your strategy is working.
    edit2: oh right it's 5:30 on a friday, of course it's time for eme's weekly "lol see you monday" post, idk why i bothered replying at all
  • KitTeaCup wrote: »
    Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).

    Like I said : The Damage is already done and it cannot be undone. No matter how hard you try to fix this it's not going to undo the damage you've done to the entire community
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭

    Like I said : The Damage is already done and it cannot be undone. No matter how hard you try to fix this it's not going to undo the damage you've done to the entire community

    this isn't entirely true. it would be very easy to drop xigncode's deadweight and officially support moongourd/dps meter.. their longterm unofficial policy of "don't be rude about it" was working well. The only problem is how closely it's tied in with proxy issues now, and that's only the case because of a lack of knowledge. Their post even indicates that they think proxy and dps meter are related, when in fact they are two entirely different things. All we need is staff that isn't completely ignorant of issues, or staff that is willing to do even a modicum of research into things and 60% of tera's problems could be solved overnight.
  • KitTeaCup wrote: »
    Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).

    If you don't now nor ever directly went after proxy users.... why DMCA in the first place? That's literally going after every proxy user at the source rather than individually. Sure, you won't be banning paying customers, but instead you drove 90% of them over to EU and other regions.

    Seriously, this whole back-and-forth stance you guys seem to have regarding things is really getting beyond annoying. "DPS meters are fine" "ALL THIRD PARTY IS BAD AND WE WILL BAN YOU" "nah nvm they cool" "NOPE NOPE XIGNCODE WILL SAVE US" "OH IT DIDN'T LETS GET LEGAL" "well that backfired, back to tolerating! Oh wait, there's no playerbase left... lets announce that we tolerate. Maybe that'll bring some back!"
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭

    Like I said : The Damage is already done and it cannot be undone. No matter how hard you try to fix this it's not going to undo the damage you've done to the entire community

    this isn't entirely true. it would be very easy to drop xigncode's deadweight and officially support moongourd/dps meter.. their longterm unofficial policy of "don't be rude about it" was working well. The only problem is how closely it's tied in with proxy issues now, and that's only the case because of a lack of knowledge. Their post even indicates that they think proxy and dps meter are related, when in fact they are two entirely different things. All we need is staff that isn't completely ignorant of issues, or staff that is willing to do even a modicum of research into things and 60% of tera's problems could be solved overnight.

    They are related because the developers of proxy and dps meter are related. Shinra meter developer, from my understanding, will not update their meter for NA as long as Caali is not updating his mods for NA. I even asked the shinra dev if he was updating his meter for NA, which he replied "no".
  • Saabi wrote: »

    Like I said : The Damage is already done and it cannot be undone. No matter how hard you try to fix this it's not going to undo the damage you've done to the entire community

    this isn't entirely true. it would be very easy to drop xigncode's deadweight and officially support moongourd/dps meter.. their longterm unofficial policy of "don't be rude about it" was working well. The only problem is how closely it's tied in with proxy issues now, and that's only the case because of a lack of knowledge. Their post even indicates that they think proxy and dps meter are related, when in fact they are two entirely different things. All we need is staff that isn't completely ignorant of issues, or staff that is willing to do even a modicum of research into things and 60% of tera's problems could be solved overnight.

    They are related because the developers of proxy and dps meter are related. Shinra meter developer, from my understanding, will not update their meter for NA as long as Caali is not updating his mods for NA. I even asked the shinra dev if he was updating his meter for NA, which he replied "no".

    He also moreorless can't, even if he wanted to. The meter devs rely on the proxy devs to supply the new protocol mappings every major patch. If none of the proxy devs are willing to create a new mapping, nobody can support NA without doing it themselves. And that's a lot of work for someone to do on their own.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    "EME just added another statement about proxy usage (https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/265512/#Comment_265512), which implicitly says "We'll turn a blind eye on proxy as long as you stay ethical, but we can ban you at any time for using it", which is pretty much the same way other publishers approach proxy. I do appreciate their efforts to further stop the exodus and dissatisfaction.

    However, while this statement pretty much reverts their stance on proxy to how things were before the DMCAs, it is still no clearly expressed legal assurance for the developers which I asked for earlier. Please understand that I am not willing to expose myself to the risk of potential legal complications by just reimplementing NA proxy support. Without a clear and legally binding statement from EME, doing so would essentially be equivalent to just ignoring their DMCA takedowns, which is obviously not free of legal risks. Hence, there will not be NA proxy support unless they provide such a statement.

    If EME is interested in reinstating proxy as a short-term solution, which in my opinion would greatly benefit the players who are still loyal to the NA servers, but don't feel comfortable with just allowing proxy altogether with a vague restriction such as "no cheats", they can feel free to discuss a potential module whitelist with me, the other third-party developers, and/or the community. I am certain that skill-prediction and fps-utils should be on such a list."

    -Caali
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    I feel like they should just whitelist SP and FPS -utils, and ban everything else.
  • If the EME does not start thinking about a solution to implement a Skill Prediction just like the proxy, it probably will not have players to ban in a month or two.

    While the European is full, the NA looks more like a desert. Just get the Steam numbers, even if it does not represent all the players, you can get an idea.

    The EU is not idiotic, it is launching promotions and events one on top of the other and captivating the players who have been playing there. Aside from not using this useless xingcode, frankly, this service protects as much as a sieve in a thunderstorm. Its only function is to play the CPU at 100% at each peak.

    Congratulations on the shot in your own foot.
  • "So, you, the community, are complaining about Golden and Silver Talent rewards. Worry not! I know what to do!! Here! Take this Lustrous Talent Crate!!! You need talents and we need your money!!!!!!"
  • KitTeaCup wrote: »
    Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).

    another great meme
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    KitTeaCup wrote: »
    Following yesterday’s statement, we have received a lot of questions regarding the ongoing use of proxy relative to our terms of service.

    Our stance is summarized below:

    We are not actively seeking out players who use proxy and other third-party mods to improve their gameplay experience. Ultimately, we want you to enjoy playing TERA fairly. Monitoring streams to identify players who are using DPS meters or UI mods to ban them is not a regular part of our day-to-day.

    That said, we remain committed to addressing reports of cheating and abuse facilitated by third-party programs. Using third-party mods remains in violation of our Terms Of Service, and we reserve the right to ban any player purely for their use of ANY unofficial mod, particularly if we deem such use to be abusive or result in any kind of unfair play. If you choose to use third-party programs, you do so at the risk of your En Masse account being banned.

    We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions to the beneficial features provided by popular third-party mods to eliminate this grey area in the future and provide an improved experience for our players (as outlined in yesterday’s message).

    So, what was the goal of the last three weeks, and how does the reality of what has happened compare to what the expectations were?
  • Yeah.. the "We remain dedicated to pursuing long-term and official solutions" part especially sounds like they're simply going back to the old status quo. Ignore the third-party scene and try to assure the community with empty promises to do better and "long-term" solutions. We've all heard that before. They can't even keep their short-term promises (still waiting on those fashion coupon and Rewards shop etc overhauls promised 6+ months ago). Why do they think any of us will believe them now?
Sign In or Register to comment.