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About the new "event"

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Comments

  • edited November 2018
    Nopi wrote: »
    Melyodis wrote: »
    From my view this event is to help new players but all the vets are up in here venting, can't please this community at all no matter how they try. Eme should just let the player council plan events for this game since they are doing nothing.

    If the members of the player council are actively playing the game right now, then they'd know the needs. So, it would indeed be more beneficial to listen to them. EME personnel themselves may not have the time to really play their game because they are working on it, so, as some people have expressed, they may seem a bit more disconnected from the "reality". Though I say reality in quotes, since in here, that's also based on opinion from those posting here.

    We've told them extensively the needs and feedback about the gearing process, and even concerns about this event and how it would be received. In the end, as I alluded to earlier, the broader conversation that needs to happen about why BHS has made end-game gearing so exasperating and why EME is choosing to let them run the show in this area (to not interfere with fundamental gear progression anymore, unlike the past with the crazy events) is above player council's "pay grade" (which is, of course, zero). We keep giving the feedback.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    We've told them extensively the needs and feedback about the gearing process, and even concerns about this event and how it would be received. In the end, as I alluded to earlier, the broader conversation that needs to happen about why BHS has made end-game gearing so exasperating and why EME is choosing to let them run the show in this area (to not interfere with fundamental gear progression anymore, unlike the past with the crazy events) is above player council's "pay grade" (which is, of course, zero). We keep giving the feedback.

    It is why the other poster suggested, and I kind of agree with, that the council could be allowed to run gearing up events. I and a few others feel that it could be a win-win thing. So maybe instead of repeating yourselves over and over again when talking to EME about the needs of the player base, ask them instead for more chances to run the events yourselves.
  • edited December 2018
    Nopi wrote: »
    We've told them extensively the needs and feedback about the gearing process, and even concerns about this event and how it would be received. In the end, as I alluded to earlier, the broader conversation that needs to happen about why BHS has made end-game gearing so exasperating and why EME is choosing to let them run the show in this area (to not interfere with fundamental gear progression anymore, unlike the past with the crazy events) is above player council's "pay grade" (which is, of course, zero). We keep giving the feedback.

    It is why the other poster suggested, and I kind of agree with, that the council could be allowed to run gearing up events. I and a few others feel that it could be a win-win thing. So maybe instead of repeating yourselves over and over again when talking to EME about the needs of the player base, ask them instead for more chances to run the events yourselves.

    It's not really the issue; we'd certainly be forbidden from doing the things people want because it would interfere with BHS's intended game balance. That's exactly like what Spacecats did in the past, and they're not doing that anymore. It's not because they don't know *how* to do it, or don't know what could be done, it's because they made a conscious decision to stop doing that now. That's exactly why I suspect they did things like remove the permanent double vanguard items -- because having it be permanent interfered with BHS's intended design/progression too much. Instead, they run it as occasional events so the impact is mitigated.

    It's not about people "playing the game to know what needs to be done". It's about a conscious decision or directive (I don't know for sure who made the call) to trust the game developers' opinions about how progression should work rather than intervening in a major way. Regardless of their own personal opinions, they're fundamentally letting BHS make the call about issues like this, because it's their job to balance their game. Whatever events EME runs these days are designed to not singlehandedly tip any scales, just maybe ease certain issues here and there to some degree, and hopefully hopefully make things a bit more fun/rewarding without breaking things (e.g. added drops in Dreadspire, etc.).

    (I will say that we have some very good people who give input on event loot tables and staff that are responsive to that feedback, though again, there are constraints on what people are allowed to do, and those constraints will prevent major action on this topic.)

    So, we give feedback, community team relays the community's feedback to key EME and BHS folk, and BHS would have to make a decision to change the game. And I think they're unlikely to do that unless all the other major global regions concur.

    I'm not saying this philosophy couldn't change -- after all, it was different before -- but that's basically where we're at. They try to run events that add some spice and make things a bit more fun, but not in a game-altering way, and what people ultimately are asking for here (taking significant action to ease the pain of end-game gearing grind/cost) would be seen as game-altering. Of course, the more people ask and make that pain felt with objective evidence/data, the more likely it is something might happen.


    (By the way, to be clear, I know *full well* that the opinion of the community (that I often share) is that trusting the game's developers on progression or balance is the *last* thing anyone should ever do to make the game appeal in this market.)
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    snip

    Well, thanks for the explanation, but if they are so adamant on keeping things as they are right now, regardless of what feedback people are giving, then I see no other outcome than the further downsizing of the playerbase. But, maybe that's part of their design and intention as well?
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nopi wrote: »
    snip

    Well, thanks for the explanation, but if they are so adamant on keeping things as they are right now, regardless of what feedback people are giving, then I see no other outcome than the further downsizing of the playerbase. But, maybe that's part of their design and intention as well?

    It's more of a case of developers, and those above them, having the mentality that the player base is clueless in regards to what they want. You think you want it, but you don't. In addition to the issue that Koreans generally don't balance games well for global markets due to lack of knowledge of non-Korean culture. It's partly why Tera just failed miserably in China, as the MMORPG market there is far more competitive than in NA/Eu where Western studios don't produce new MMORPGs.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    Nopi wrote: »
    snip

    Well, thanks for the explanation, but if they are so adamant on keeping things as they are right now, regardless of what feedback people are giving, then I see no other outcome than the further downsizing of the playerbase. But, maybe that's part of their design and intention as well?

    It's more of a case of developers, and those above them, having the mentality that the player base is clueless in regards to what they want. You think you want it, but you don't. In addition to the issue that Koreans generally don't balance games well for global markets due to lack of knowledge of non-Korean culture. It's partly why Tera just failed miserably in China, as the MMORPG market there is far more competitive than in NA/Eu where Western studios don't produce new MMORPGs.

    Yeah. And that's what's sad about it. Now, I can't say I didn't note this from the very beginning of the game's retail life here in NA. I always felt Tera could have been such a greater game if some things were done differently. But I'm not a dev nor someone important, so, other than voicing my opinion and offering feedback, I knew there was not much I could do, at the time, nor now. Still, I'll keep offering my opinion to whoever listens to it, while I'm able.
  • Kira98Kira98 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Im back to NA cuz idk. And try use that f.ckng scrolls and surprisse. My +8 sc down to +5 and get more fail.... Nice Event.. Just drop NA again... NA will be great when kick that randoms GM's. gl
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    gave up on eu already lol :DDDDDDD
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    (lots of info)

    Are you implying that one of the major reasons for material drops and allocation being scaled back was actually because we were progressing too fast? I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters, unless it's the usual "The hardcore players will get bored!" nonsense.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    SageWindu wrote: »
    (lots of info)

    Are you implying that one of the major reasons for material drops and allocation being scaled back was actually because we were progressing too fast? I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters, unless it's the usual "The hardcore players will get bored!" nonsense.

    I doubt it's as simple as that. We all know this region has slowed to a crawl and the hardcores are an endangered species around here (or rather, the actually geared hardcores). Actually, I'd love to know how many are able to enter the latest dungeons, or even how many can claim they have it in farm mode. With the current gearing, I doubt those numbers are the same or even close to VM days.
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nopi wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    (lots of info)

    Are you implying that one of the major reasons for material drops and allocation being scaled back was actually because we were progressing too fast? I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters, unless it's the usual "The hardcore players will get bored!" nonsense.

    I doubt it's as simple as that. We all know this region has slowed to a crawl and the hardcores are an endangered species around here (or rather, the actually geared hardcores). Actually, I'd love to know how many are able to enter the latest dungeons, or even how many can claim they have it in farm mode. With the current gearing, I doubt those numbers are the same or even close to VM days.

    You know, that brings up an interesting question: remember when people used to "sell" runs? Is that still a thing?

    Maybe the current gearing system was put together to get rid of that, especially since the only mats you can sell now are gems (...right?), and it's debatable whether or not those even count as mats.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    SageWindu wrote: »
    Nopi wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    (lots of info)

    Are you implying that one of the major reasons for material drops and allocation being scaled back was actually because we were progressing too fast? I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters, unless it's the usual "The hardcore players will get bored!" nonsense.

    I doubt it's as simple as that. We all know this region has slowed to a crawl and the hardcores are an endangered species around here (or rather, the actually geared hardcores). Actually, I'd love to know how many are able to enter the latest dungeons, or even how many can claim they have it in farm mode. With the current gearing, I doubt those numbers are the same or even close to VM days.

    You know, that brings up an interesting question: remember when people used to "sell" runs? Is that still a thing?

    Maybe the current gearing system was put together to get rid of that, especially since the only mats you can sell now are gems (...right?), and it's debatable whether or not those even count as mats.

    Not sure. EME has no problems with the blatant monetization of carries in Kritika, one of the other games they publish and have also subjected to ridiculously long and tedious grinds. And considering how EU Tera is running, this may be an all EME thing. Perhaps someone high up in the food chain has a much more Korean mmo mindset here at EME than any of the staff at GF.
  • DvsvDvsv ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Nopi wrote: »
    snip

    Well, thanks for the explanation, but if they are so adamant on keeping things as they are right now, regardless of what feedback people are giving, then I see no other outcome than the further downsizing of the playerbase. But, maybe that's part of their design and intention as well?

    Imho, if you ask me, i rly think that their plan is to make endgame gearing (especialy anything past 455 iLVL) only viable for whales that spends lots of money in the game to make progression WAY WAY faster.
    I rly wonder if at least 90% of all HO+0 or better players are p2w ppl, usually they only farm top-tier dungeons and we all know we can't farm talents/lots of gems/etc on 5 man dungeon...
    And we can see the same trend on EMP prices, last time i saw they were asking 200K for an elite 30d voucher, nowadays you can buy a LOT more gold with real money and it's WAY more time efficient to gear the p2w route than farming anything ingame.
    A free/casual spender player starting now will burn to death farming super boring IOD bams (or waiting long queues for PVP) for golden talents and prob will give up gearing anything past 453 iLVL, idk how the heck a non-p2w player are supposed to farm an INSANE 1000 golden talents per try just for ONE HO+0 weapon, prob they'll faill like 6~8x, i can't even imagine the PP and AFK time needed just to convert all those golden talent and the developer is actually asking full HO+0 for bahaar dungeon! (on the last VM patch they asked misery+12 for VSHM!)..

    In the end of the day, i just think they're milking hard their remaining whale endgame playerbase with this gearing system and by the next HO+6 patch, NA Tera's endgame will be locked to whales only ;)
    SageWindu wrote: »
    Nopi wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    (lots of info)

    Are you implying that one of the major reasons for material drops and allocation being scaled back was actually because we were progressing too fast? I'm having a hard time understanding why that matters, unless it's the usual "The hardcore players will get bored!" nonsense.

    I doubt it's as simple as that. We all know this region has slowed to a crawl and the hardcores are an endangered species around here (or rather, the actually geared hardcores). Actually, I'd love to know how many are able to enter the latest dungeons, or even how many can claim they have it in farm mode. With the current gearing, I doubt those numbers are the same or even close to VM days.

    You know, that brings up an interesting question: remember when people used to "sell" runs? Is that still a thing?

    Maybe the current gearing system was put together to get rid of that, especially since the only mats you can sell now are gems (...right?), and it's debatable whether or not those even count as mats.
    You can still sell runs.
    Last time i saw there was ppl selling EE and Veils on Velika server, heck they can even sell all the loot from the last boss.
    Prob a whale player can buy SC+9 from TB, buy an "exclusive 100% gear exp boost" and farm gear exp at the double rate of an "normal player" and buy EVERYTHING from the TB/other players needed to reach HO+2~3.
    And it's way more efficient to just buy every golden plate from the trade broker than to waste hours farming golden talents on IOD so you can waste more hours, PP and electricity AFK converting all those talents and fail everything in the end.
    Imho this new gearing system esp after HO patch only made NA Tera endgame gearing way more p2w and for anyone who wanna argue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost



  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Dvsv wrote: »

    In the end of the day, i just think they're milking hard their remaining whale endgame playerbase with this gearing system and by the next HO+6 patch, NA Tera's endgame will be locked to whales only ;)

    This is our soon to be nightmare.

    I am at full +9SC and i am already seeing my gear to be pretty much worthless at that point in game considering that i am seeing a selected few ( mostly selected on pure luck but they still exist ) already running around with +2 or +3Heroic Oath and they are both sturdy and hit so much harder ( i was thinking to try to get Heroic Oath but it is so extremely expensive and time consuming that i am not sure if i will ever get it ).

    The other problem is that we will get this new PvP gear but it is PvP only so we will need to grind from zero for a new type of gear that will be useful only for PvP .. with the ironic part that there is barely any PvP in this game while at the same time the PvP gear will be pretty much worthless for PvE so doing PvE sometimes in the future will be quite unpleasant.


    Sadly, we do not have En Masse on our side to help us catch up and have a decent life as much as Gameforge does ( imagine how En Masse is viewing the gearing in game since they added the current event and on top of it they also added a downgrade system for the frostmetal gear which is simply fodder at this point in time ).



    If there used to be players with +7Stormcry and players with +9Frostmetal in the past and then +2Stormcry and +9Stormcry.. Then we are going to see +6Heroic Oath players and +9Stormcry players in the future... Except that the gap will be so much wider this time with 10% of the player base purely stomping over the other 90%...
  • 6AWC3DP9PR6AWC3DP9PR ✭✭
    edited December 2018
    Dvsv wrote: »
    snip

    Going to address your sentiment with what I know personally.

    Most of the remaining, super-geared players are what we call "old money." Most of them were/are able to gear simply by having a wide bulk of pre-existing gold; pre-existing being the operative word because it is only by virtue of the gold they were able to procure when dungeons were more profitable that they can gear now.

    It's no secret that gold expenditure seriously outstrips gold generation. I just thought I would throw in my two cents, because enchanting strain is definitely a universal problem. No war chest is bottomless.
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