Old School DPS

Maybe I am old fashioned.. I do not believe in using a 3rd party program to hold my hand to make my DPS better. To me, it is cheap and cheating a bit.. I will never rely on an injector/proxy to make my DPS better. So many people use injectors/proxy to maximize their dps.

Anyway, that being said,

The question is, what is considered "Excellent" DPS for a full SC +9 gunner with perfect rolls and entropy accessories WITHOUT a proxy?
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Comments

  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for giving us your opinion on that. What would have been more helpful for your actual question would've been your class and your ping, though.
  • The question is, what is considered "Excellent" DPS for a full SC +9 gunner with perfect rolls and entropy accessories WITHOUT a proxy?

    go look at the gourd go look at the boss your interested in comparing dps for then look at the top 400 gunners and with decent ping put yourself in like 200th place. Then again to really compare your dps vs theirs you'd have to use a 3rd party program... oddly enough people used dmg meter to improve their rotations and ultimately their dmg
  • > @voidy said:
    > Thanks for giving us your opinion on that. What would have been more helpful for your actual question would've been your class and your ping, though.



    If you read my post, you would see I play Gunner with full +9 SC and entropy...


    My ping averages 38-47ms. I use double energetics.
  • The OP did originally list the class. This is a perfectly valid question the OP has posed. Too many people are using third party tools (injectors / proxies) to increase their DPS. I too am "old school" and never use such tools to raise my DPS; to me using such is an artificial increase and has zero bearing on actual skill performance.

    Meters are one thing as they provide valuable insight to how one plays however and allows one to make adjustments for improvements.

    I also think it is far more valuable in terms of ones performance on a given class and gear level to use only battle solutions (without which the game is unplayable) but no other buffs (aside from if one is running with a mystic). This is what I consider to be a baseline. Unfortunately, all too many people are not interested in their baseline performance envelope at all. A shame really.

    The ping question however is very much relevant. Also, the OP did not mention what, if any, etchings are in use.
  • 6AWC3DP9PR6AWC3DP9PR ✭✭
    edited January 6
    I also think it is far more valuable in terms of ones performance on a given class and gear level to use only battle solutions

    I'm going to have to stop you there and tell you "no." Nobody has ever hit their peak DPS not using a potion and elixir. There is precisely nothing to gain from deliberately handicapping yourself, whatever opinion you have on third-party tools.

    As to OP, I'm just going to be forthright and say that I'm sure you know the opinion your post could entirely have done without is, at best, divisive, and at worst unwelcome.

    Onto the question, there are a ridiculous amount of variables that go into someone's DPS. Their gear right down to their grade of etchings, their EP amount and point allotment, the length of a given fight, buff uptimes, etc. You haven't done that housekeeping yet.
  • When u crit all day long. If u see more white number than yellow, something is wrong.
  • Vy1ViviVy1Vivi ✭✭✭
    Maybe I am old fashioned.. I do not believe in using a 3rd party program to hold my hand to make my DPS better. To me, it is cheap and cheating a bit.. I will never rely on an injector/proxy to make my DPS better. So many people use injectors/proxy to maximize their dps.

    Anyway, that being said,

    The question is, what is considered "Excellent" DPS for a full SC +9 gunner with perfect rolls and entropy accessories WITHOUT a proxy?

    What is considered 'excellent DPS' is relative and entirely based on opinion tbh. I'm with you on not relying on proxies or anything. I'm not even full +9 with entropy on my gunner and I manage 4mil+ most of the time, but that is with your run-of-the-mill buffs (nostrum, bravery, white-grade noctenium) and with a good tank and healer.

    That being said, unfortunately with EME backing down on their recent stance against proxies you see more proxy-users cropping up nowadays, and you can't tell who is using them and who is not. So when you see people pulling out high-number DPS you can't help but question if they're using third-party programs and cheating, but certainly its possible to do lots of damage without.

    But back to your question, like someone else recommended you can check moongourd to see how top DPS gunners fair in 446+ dungeons; however, like I said you never know who is cheating or not. Unfortunately there is no 'proxy detector'.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6
    > @voidy said:
    > Thanks for giving us your opinion on that. What would have been more helpful for your actual question would've been your class and your ping, though.



    If you read my post, you would see I play Gunner with full +9 SC and entropy...


    My ping averages 38-47ms. I use double energetics.

    Hey my bad, I missed your class there. Next time put the important stuff at the top; I got tired by the end of all that proxy moral-waxing.

    With that ping, you don't even need proxy. It's used primarily to compensate for high ping, which you don't have anyway.
    Checking moongourd is pointless since most of the top people on there use proxy, and you want to compare yourself to people who don't. You can ask people if they use it, but they'll say no since using it is technically a bannable offense. Honestly, what you'll want to look out for are people using actual exploitative scripts and/or macros, since gunners are pretty notorious for that sort of thing. I don't know which skills to look for exactly, but on moongourd you'll want to pay attention to their hits per minute on various skills. Try and compare different runs involving different gunners and see if there's a huge difference between the hits per minute on core skills, despite both players being skilled and knowing what they're doing. It isn't always a way to definitely know, but it's a start. With zerkers for example, it's really easy to tell an unleash-scripting zerker apart from a legitimate one, because the scripter will have higher hits per minute on their unleash skills than one who's actually playing the game, since a bot is doing it really really fast. With lancers too, people who had extremely high shield barrage hits per minute could almost certainly be said to be macroing it, and people with insane spring attack hits per minute were almost always scripting. Do that sort of comparison, but with gunner, and you'll hopefully weed out the ones who don't use third party stuff. Better yet, see if you can find videos or streams of them playing. I never had luck with this until very recently, but maybe gunners will be different.

    Good luck! I'll be honest: You're looking for a group that barely exists at this point. Those who don't use proxy likely have ping in the teens and don't use it because of that. Saying this as someone who used to main lancer and tried to compete only to learn that nearly everyone I was trying to pass was using actual cheating scripts and the ones who said they weren't, turned out to be lying about it anyway. That road is really embittering
  • 6AWC3DP9PR6AWC3DP9PR ✭✭
    edited January 6
    I already hope this thread is short lived to be honest. People on this forum take the mere mention of proxy as an invitation to derail entire threads, although the dangerous rhetoric I'm seeing this early is maybe what OP wanted.

    If discussing it were banned, it would likely be to the forum's benefit at this point.

    For a more solid answer to OP's question I think I would estimate the low 7 millions at the lowest, strong possibility of more.
  • DvsvDvsv ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6
    I was a high ping player and nowadays i'm completely changing my stance towards proxy.
    The problem is not simple SP usage (a native low ping is still better than high-ping + SP cuz how much SP ghost!), the real problem imho is a guy (everyone know who is..) selling scrips to exploit the game and make certain class deal way more DPS than what is possible in game, that's very obvious esp on zerkers.
    I'm srry but i call that blatant cheating.

    Anyway, nowadays dps on Tera is much more about how broken your class is (there's not a trace of real class balancing in this game) or who use the better script.
    If you really wanna compete and improve, ignore Tera and play a more serious competitive e-sport game..
  • 6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    I'm going to have to stop you there and tell you "no." Nobody has ever hit their peak DPS not using a potion and elixir. There is precisely nothing to gain from deliberately handicapping yourself, whatever opinion you have on third-party tools.
    You missed my point: knowing what DPS you are capable of doing without any additional buffs: hence the term (that you nicely dismissed) "baseline". Hitting a peak DPS is entirely different than a baseline DPS.
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    As to OP, I'm just going to be forthright and say that I'm sure you know the opinion your post could entirely have done without is, at best, divisive, and at worst unwelcome.
    Certainly you lack an inclusive and supportive attitude.
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    Onto the question, there are a ridiculous amount of variables that go into someone's DPS. Their gear right down to their grade of etchings, their EP amount and point allotment, the length of a given fight, buff uptimes, etc. You haven't done that housekeeping yet.
    This I agree with, as I am sure most will. Also keep in mind we can, and have indeed, calculated DPS' using game theory (to others, game theory-crafting). Like any such endeavor however it is highly dependent on the set of assumptions that the arguments themselves are predicated upon. Nevertheless, with reasonable assumptions and arguments one can come very close.
  • MatrixOfLeadersMatrixOfLeaders ✭✭✭
    edited January 7
    > @MultiverseOverlord said:
    > 6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    >
    > I'm going to have to stop you there and tell you "no." Nobody has ever hit their peak DPS not using a potion and elixir. There is precisely nothing to gain from deliberately handicapping yourself, whatever opinion you have on third-party tools.
    >
    >
    >
    > You missed my point: knowing what DPS you are capable of doing without any additional buffs: hence the term (that you nicely dismissed) "baseline". Hitting a peak DPS is entirely different than a baseline DPS.
    > 6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    >
    > As to OP, I'm just going to be forthright and say that I'm sure you know the opinion your post could entirely have done without is, at best, divisive, and at worst unwelcome.
    >
    >
    >
    > Certainly you lack an inclusive and supportive attitude.
    > 6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    >
    > Onto the question, there are a ridiculous amount of variables that go into someone's DPS. Their gear right down to their grade of etchings, their EP amount and point allotment, the length of a given fight, buff uptimes, etc. You haven't done that housekeeping yet.
    >
    >
    >
    > This I agree with, as I am sure most will. Also keep in mind we can, and have indeed, calculated DPS' using game theory (to others, game theory-crafting). Like any such endeavor however it is highly dependent on the set of assumptions that the arguments themselves are predicated upon. Nevertheless, with reasonable assumptions and arguments one can come very close.



    I would have to say, this response made me LOL with all the elaborate ajectives..


    Fundamentally though, a non-proxy (injector) user, will never be able to compete with a user who uses these 3rd party crutches for increased DPS.

    On 453 runs I averaged 4.2 mil (someone else had a meter), so I assume being an "honest gamer dps, without 3rd party cheats, that 4.2 mill DPS in a 453 dungeon is on par. (Full +9 SC gunner with Entropy and double energetic etching,using consumables but no lamb)

    Agree or disagree?
  • ThukingThuking ✭✭✭
    3rd party programs don't hold your hand, if your bad and use proxy you will still be bad.

    and to answer your question I have similar gear and was doing 6-7m average on glhm first and second boss then around 4-5m on last boss without proxy.

    If you really want to push your dps you will need to use proxy even with 30 odd ping.

  • KetothKetoth ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    I'm going to have to stop you there and tell you "no." Nobody has ever hit their peak DPS not using a potion and elixir. There is precisely nothing to gain from deliberately handicapping yourself, whatever opinion you have on third-party tools.
    You missed my point: knowing what DPS you are capable of doing without any additional buffs: hence the term (that you nicely dismissed) "baseline". Hitting a peak DPS is entirely different than a baseline DPS.
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    As to OP, I'm just going to be forthright and say that I'm sure you know the opinion your post could entirely have done without is, at best, divisive, and at worst unwelcome.
    Certainly you lack an inclusive and supportive attitude.
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    Onto the question, there are a ridiculous amount of variables that go into someone's DPS. Their gear right down to their grade of etchings, their EP amount and point allotment, the length of a given fight, buff uptimes, etc. You haven't done that housekeeping yet.
    This I agree with, as I am sure most will. Also keep in mind we can, and have indeed, calculated DPS' using game theory (to others, game theory-crafting). Like any such endeavor however it is highly dependent on the set of assumptions that the arguments themselves are predicated upon. Nevertheless, with reasonable assumptions and arguments one can come very close.

    there isnt such thing as baseline dps on tera. the reason is : your dps depends of your party dps.

    A high dps party can have higher enrage uptime, meaning higher dps. Buffs sync also affect greatly your dps. And being able to end a fight in 3min and 20s will allow you use brooch and infuriate a second time, increasing more dps.

    Think on this way, can you do the same dps with just you alone and npc holding aggro and killing in 15min vs a full party that can kill the boss in around 40s:?
  • spungspung ✭✭
    Thuking wrote: »
    3rd party programs don't hold your hand, if your bad and use proxy you will still be bad.

    and to answer your question I have similar gear and was doing 6-7m average on glhm first and second boss then around 4-5m on last boss without proxy.

    If you really want to push your dps you will need to use proxy even with 30 odd ping.

    I disagree. If you're not handicapped you shouldn't be aided.
    If you're playing on sub 30's you shouldn't be allowed to use proxy because that's mutiny against players with high ping. Even with proxy on that creates this fake taxing ping players still suffer as anyone who plays with normal latency.

    The proxy is meant to help minimize the gap between the two NOT make it worse.
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