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The Strong Bravery (removal) vs Bravery thread

There's a lot of discussion going on in discord about people not liking the removal of strong braveries... here is your thread to discuss and/or complain about the changes. As always, please keep it constructive.
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Comments

  • EmberBecEmberBec Wonderland
    edited January 2019
    okay so, i've had some time to recollect my thoughts and rewrite my post here.
    in my original i've said that 2% atk speed and damage isn't a game-breaking thing in the face of combat accelerator, seal of the undying flame, emblem of eminence, glorious memento, drop of daredevil and any other consumables that might exist in other regions that i don't know about and that those consumables are game breaking, not the strong brav/canes. i haven't changed my stance and i never will.
    taldek covered pretty much all there is to say down below so i'll just say what's in my mind; there's not just that, there's velik's helper, there's ktera's own heaven's elixir (as far as the people in the discord said, at least), etc.

    if bhs really cared about balancing the game then strong bravery/cane is a REALLY minor change that they shouldn't bother with. it's actually more of a huge annoyance than balancing, given the examples of other regions. if bhs really wants to balance things out on the consumables then prohibit EU/RU from having their broken consumables - but they won't because those are contractors, and eme can't go against their parent company so they're forced to play by bhs's garbage rules and logic, unlike the chads destiny games and gameforge.

    there's a lot of other ways to balance the game, stuff like adjusting talent values or class skills, or forcing other regions to use less overpowered consumables, or making them drop velik's helper, whatever, i dunno, just... taking strong bravery/cane from NA is wrong, it's NOT the way to go about balancing the game and they're pissing off the community even worse than they already are, it's ridiculous. even if you tell me "but they forced other regions to drop strong bravery/cane as well!" in case they do that, they won't be as sorely missed as they will be in NA, that i can assure you of. a player in EU for instance can very easily purchase a combat accelerator to complement his normal bravery/cane and won't miss out on way too much, but NA has no such luxury.

    tl;dr = removing strong brav/cane doesn't balance the game as bhs think it does, there's better ways to actually balance the game on, other regions have much more op consumables and even if they do remove strong brav/cane as well, they won't be missed as much as in NA. the extra 2% atk speed and dmg is more like a quality of life thing than a game-breaking buff that needs to be removed. strong bravery/cane ≠ memeslash.

    tl;dr's tl;dr = bhs just kicked NA players in the nuts for no good reason. big oof.
    - yuriel
  • Who hates NA so much, is this an EME thing or a BHS thing?? Removing strong braveries? Who thought of this and went.. yeah we gotta get rid of it? Who??

    If anything you should replace EVERY other bravery with strong ones.. the regular ones are pointless to keep on giving away :/!
  • TaldekTaldek ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Let's take a moment to appreciate after delaying the talent system for literally YEARS, suddenly now bhs cares about other region "balance".
    Let's also review everything all the other regions have:
    Eu:
    NCGU.png
    9e13d0a8465141b2000859a1759b81be.png
    6235174d00a850770fc92cd6f203314a.png
    024243cff37299a81550dc8e0ed0c86b.png

    Russia:
    Eu1tWhN.png


    Every other region has Velik's Helper(23 power/23 endurance) in harder dungeons, and some have a stronger version in Bahaar.
    While this was intended to make up for lack of talents, we now have them and so it was removed for us, other regions kept them because idklol.

    If they really care about "balance" all these things would also be removed as ktera doesn't have them either. Wait and see a week when EU/RU get the patch. This could also just be whataboutism, fine.

    Do players agree/disagree that strongs should be unobtainable? lets find out:
    http://www.strawpoll.me/17234036

    While i don't think players would support this either, simply making them unobtainable is somewhat worse for players who didn't stockpile a bunch, as newer players simply wont have them. Bricking them entirely would be more "balanced" lol.

  • StlexStlex United States ✭✭
    edited January 2019
    As I mentioned in the Discord chat, since I main Ninja I haven't noticed a *ton* of difference between the OG Braveries and Strong Braveries on that character. However, I'm an altoholic and have at least one of every other class, some of which are not yet 65, and on some of those characters the difference is much more noticeable. When soloing mid-level dungeons and BAM Vanguards, that extra 2% actually does really help a lot of players. My max-level Lancer and Berserkers have more of a need for the Strong versions, for instance, than said Ninja or Warrior.
    I also feel like taking out the Strong versions from the NA game isn't so much "balancing" as just giving the other games an upper hand that we're apparently not allowed to have. There are so many other buff potions, some much stronger than our paltry 2%-higher-than-original-potion Strong Braveries, that they'll probably be able to keep. If it were real balance, then every publisher would be removing all of their buff potions that aren't found in KTERA, and unless that's the case it just doesn't seem remotely fair. Eu has at least three INCREDIBLY "overpowered" consumable buff items that we don't have access to, and our better version of an already-existing potion is getting removed. It's heartbreaking, and I don't understand how this could be solely about balance at all, especially with level 70 dropping in two months.
    Just to add, somebody mentioned in the chat that Strong Braveries not being entirely removed and instead just not being acquirable anymore gives longer-playing members an advantage, and I do agree that the thousands that some players have accumulated would be pretty unfair to have accessible when going up against other newer players. Sure, it could be counter-argued that there are many items that are no longer acquirable that longer-time players got to take advantage of, but a lot of those items are also now unusable- namely charms- and the others are more "cosmetic" like mounts or costumes. It wouldn't be fair to new players if we start removing things like this, things that could definitely affect their leveling progress, things that we've had for a long while now.

    Please ask BHS to reconsider this change. It's a detriment to the playerbase- we already don't have some of the really awesome buff potions that other versions have, so taking away one of the nicest ones that we were previously allowed to have honestly comes off as a little bit cruel to the NA players. :c

    Edit: I'll just wait and see if the other mega-overpowered buff consumables are being removed from EU/ RU... It would make more sense for "balance" reasons, if they want to stick with that story, but otherwise I'm calling bologna and I hate to be like that because I do love this game but it just doesn't seem fair to us if those items aren't removed.
  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited January 2019
    Just to add, somebody mentioned in the chat that Strong Braveries not being entirely removed and instead just not being acquirable anymore gives longer-playing members an advantage, and I do agree that the thousands that some players have accumulated would be pretty unfair to have accessible when going up against other newer players

    Opc0I52.jpg
  • StlexStlex United States ✭✭
    HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
    Just to add, somebody mentioned in the chat that Strong Braveries not being entirely removed and instead just not being acquirable anymore gives longer-playing members an advantage, and I do agree that the thousands that some players have accumulated would be pretty unfair to have accessible when going up against other newer players

    Opc0I52.jpg
    My point exactly. There are some players in the Discord talking about having ten-thousand of these, and it doesn't seem right that newer players don't have the ability to acquire some of the strongest buff potions in our region's version.
    Also, the "Elite Bravery Potion" that are replacing the Strong Bravery Potions are DEPLORABLY terrible. I have a few hundred that seemingly-replaced some of my already-existing Strong Bravery Potions and I have no idea why or how or when it happened exactly, but it's got me pretty mad considering I've got less than 200 Strong Braveries stockpiled and have nearly ten alts to get up to 65, not including the characters I've gotta also get to 70 in a few months.
    This is a slap in the face to not only new players in the NA version, but the NA version entirely. We don't have the same buffs and perks as other regions, and now some of the best buffs that we DO have are becoming non-acquirable, but people are still going to be able to keep their thousands of them if they were lucky or smart enough to stockpile them? Okay, then. Rude, and a lot of us don't agree with them being unacquirable, but if you're gonna slap our face, why not kick us while we're down and punish everybody equally by making them unusable too, or replacing them with non-Strong versions?
  • I will accept losing Strong potions ONLY under the condition that all regions are put on the same playing field.

    I do not want that for some reason as nefarious as me wanting the regions with things like Combat Accelerator to enjoy the game less. Bluehole simply have no ground to speak of "balance" when every different version of the game is different and are far from being equal in power level.

    Korea, under Bluehole's direct supervision, enjoys consumables no other region does by the same token which are much more powerful than Strong potions ever were. Will those not go unchecked as well?
  • StlexStlex United States ✭✭
    6AWC3DP9PR wrote: »
    I will accept losing Strong potions ONLY under the condition that all regions are put on the same playing field.

    I do not want that for some reason as nefarious as me wanting the regions with things like Combat Accelerator to enjoy the game less. Bluehole simply have no ground to speak of "balance" when every different version of the game is different and are far from being equal in power level.

    Korea, under Bluehole's direct supervision, enjoys consumables no other region does by the same token which are much more powerful than Strong potions ever were. Will those not go unchecked as well?
    Even if they remove Strong Canes and Braves from all versions, they will still be FAR from "balanced," which is why I find it hard to believe that they're doing it solely in the name of such "balance." The only way I'll be willing to swallow that it's TRULY for balance purposes is if other versions also lose some of the much more overpowered buff consumables that they have, namely the couple that EU/ RU have that were screenshotted and shared a few posts above. If they're still allowed to have those, then what does this version even really have now that our Strong pots are being taken away?
  • Removing strong bravery and strong cane pots is quite the most useless and unneeded change in an update ever. Considering that other regions have much far better consumables than ours. The extra 2% boost given from the strong versions of bravery is rather insignificant as well as the cane pots and that's exactly why this change is absolutely unnecessary. What possible justification is there to make them unobtainable?
  • @Stlex

    What you've said, albeit agreeable, echoes what I've already said. The simple point is that Bluehole cannot even ensure an even playing field in the game's original version, so why all of a sudden must NA kowtow to Bluehole on this?

    Bluehole has not acted on event consumables being usable in leaderboard dungeons for months now in their own region, but all of a sudden 2% damage and 2% attack speed are believed to be a balance issue?

    At best, it doesn't even put a dent in the problem. At worst, it makes next to no sense.
  • NA is a more "vanilla" game than even the Korean version of Tera, which is meant the be the base game that I guess dictates the other regions in BHS's eyes. What EME needs to understand is that even Korean Tera has extra buffs and consumables that we don't have. Sure, RU and EU have more than them, but the version that the developers are going off of has more than NA. This makes it ridiculous for BHS to claim balance when we aren't given the same items as their own region.
    The balance argument again, as pointed out by poster before, is rubbish considering the item is left in the game. Anyone who has hoards of them, which I can guarantee players are rushing to find as many as they can, will always have an advantage over people who have less of them or newer players. EME should make the choice between keeping them obtainable or removing them completely. (with hopefully some compensation since they are currently prizes in lockboxes, event rewards, in shops for dragon tokens and battleground points, dungeon delves, bg coins - things people either worked for or paid for)
    We've had strong consumables for over a year; things like extra attack speed - players get used to on how to play their class. While I'm sure we can all learn to dps, heal, and tank the old way, but this isn't a positive change short term or long term. It doesn't fix anything, its just because BHS said so. It feels EME takes more away than they give us, and it just leaves a sour taste in our mouths as players.
  • StlexStlex United States ✭✭
    @6AWC3DP9PR I know, I was in agreement and simply reiterating what you commented. Every region is different and therefore will have different items and ways to acquire said items, but some are so much more "unbalanced" than others, and yet we're the ones being penalized. It's seemingly not in the name of balance, although that's what they're claiming.

    We'll have to wait until next week to see what other consumables EU/ RU loses, if any. We won't expect Korea to lose anything, but I'd at least hope that if they're gonna try to play it off as balance then they'll remove the ACTUALLY OP items from EU/ RU.
  • StlexStlex United States ✭✭
    @JXE5356AKE
    Exactly. We, the players, are the ones being punished by these changes. Whatever staff members are calling for these changes clearly don't play their own game, with or without these items, or they'd understand why they're important to us. We have so few different ones, and most of us cherish the ones that we do have and will do whatever it takes to make sure we have at least SOMETHING to help us out if the going gets tough. Balance holds no grounds when literally every single other region for the game has so many more consumable buffs than we do here. For some classes that 2% doesn't seem to matter, but for others it can be nearly detrimental. Hell, I haven't leveled a single character to 65 without using them regularly in over a year, just because soloing dungeons is pretty rough on some classes, especially when I'm in the midst of learning a class I'm not incredibly familiar with. EME is the daughter company, so why can't we even have half of the buffs that the parent company has on their own rendition of the game? Where's THAT for balance?
  • And let's bear in mind that regional disparities have been talked about on a constant basis for months since they were made apparent as early as when Dreadspire was introduced. Only now Bluehole decides to act on other regions' consumables while consumables are still disparate in kTERA?

    And in those months that people have constantly described regional variance, this is the best Bluehole comes up with? A removal of consumables that were of no consequence compared to the consumables rampant on the kTERA leaderboards? Mind you, that are of no consequence to the other regions which enjoy major raw stat buffs vastly in excess of the Strong potion?

    And let me be clear, I doubt I or anyone blame EME for needing to go through with this change if it comes to it. How the variation in the versions of the game have gotten out of hand is a total and monumental failing on the part of Bluehole and we should hold them accountable for both their inaction and lack of sufficient action.
  • edited January 2019
    These are the potions that na has vs the potions that eu and ru have, how is weather its balanced for na to lose strong pots even a topic? *quick note that drop of destruction is a consumable like root beer not a 100% uptime consumable , still relevant though.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/359533848146739203/534585744321150996/strong_brave_balance.png
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