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Death to Alts

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  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    @kamizuma
    I think you don't understand that all the current gold we earn (as inflated as it is!) is IMMEDIATELY spent on gearing. I can earn 150K in a day if I get lucky and at the end of the day it's going to disappear on kits and enchanting. I have to sacrifice a lot of my progress to buy costumes, bank/char slots, race changers and whatever else doesn't fall under the category of gearing.
    Back in vm days most of the liquid gold I earned went along with feedstock and mwa, just by doing dungeons, I didn't have to spend any of my gold earned through vgs or events and I could still gear myself to +15 and a ton of alts in mid tier and I could have access to all the classes, costumes, dungeons, elite vouchers I wanted.
    By forcing us to pay 2 million gold for skills, bhs is taking this a step further and forcing us to once again, halt our extremely lengthy gearing process and not for unnecessary commodities but in order to upgrade our skills which is essential. It's just too much.
    I'm not sure if you're pretending to be ignorant but anyone that's gearing to ho and above (and ho is a requirement for bahaar, it's not gearing because we want to be the best most dedicated op player!) will be wasting a huge % of their gold. If we stopped our gearing then we could easily amass large amounts of the gold but what's the point in that?
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21
    Vy1Vivi wrote: »
    ...So what you're basically saying is that any average player can easily come up with 2.9 mil now? From vanguards and gems? Are basing that off of all of the players that buy your 500k+ items/gear? Okay, that's funny.

    why do they need 2.9 mill and its 1.7~1.8 mill total to get all the 3 tals maxed and to unlock all 3 yphs per skill which you dont need to at all? you also do realize the content of this patch is to get from 65-70 and get the 2 new pieces not to burn through leveling in a few days, only recently have they added new accessory upgrades. you level by grinding or dungeoning and by the time you get to a level and have the tal scrolls to level up your skill tals you will have the gold to do so or rather should, you might never see the huge sum in your bank but it should be there incrementally. enchanting a single piece of gear can be > than the tal upgrade+yph, it took me 17 attempts to +1 an ho boot, thats almost 2k golden plates 42 diamonds or so and about 500k in raw gold with like 400 silver plates. and all those mats i didnt hoard or cash shop i just grind events etc, gold event i grind the fastest good turn over dungeon on multiple chars to maximize my gold vs time, double vg rewards i spam iod, double credit spam bgs its sill worth if you lose etc.
  • DokibunDokibun ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21
    Mod Edit: Removed ad hominem argument. Please offer constructive criticism of the actual arguments.
  • 2016: I had a lengthy rant about how much I hated VM awakening and +15 enchanting, as well as pretty much the entire concept of VM and how necessary that enchanting process had become to even be considered an average-geared player. I said it was so terrible that I'd never seen a system this bad before, and didn't believe there could ever be anything worse than that.

    2018: I realised I was wrong, and that gearing could in fact be made even worse. I made the statement that I would rather suffer VM enchanting than this [filtered], and most of the people I talked to about it agreed with me.

    2019: Everything somehow gets even worse. I'm relieved I made the decision to quit caring about the game for good the previous year, because now it's beyond a joke.

    Didn't help that for me personally, I was stuck in a situation where my gear wasn't +8/+9 SC and Entropy accessories and needed to run content such as RKEM and similar dungeons for elemental essence, but there was literally nobody to run with. Everyone was either already fully geared with a static and complaining about how they didn't want to play the game because everything was too easy and boring, or barely in frostmetal and still struggling with RKNM being too difficult for them. This was a problem because there was no other way to get mats, so gearing up to a point where people actually gave a damn was impossible. Glancing at the game now and seeing that on top of the dwindling 1% continuing to barricade themselves from outsiders we have even higher enchanting costs, I honestly don't know why anybody bothers to even continue playing past Stormcry. At least if you were having a rough time with VM because you had no friends to run with, you could slowly build up materials to craft it through dungeon boxes and acquire your enchanting materials through vanguards. The key word is "slowly", but the point stands. I had 13 +15 items that I recall, across 4 characters starting from VM5 all the way to VM9. After almost a year of trying to run content post-enchanting rework, I managed a +8 SC weapon and +1/+2 SC gear on ONE character.

    I literally cannot comprehend what the devs even want from the players at this point, it's just madness.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    The problem with this entire post is that it's kind of going all over the place. The OP was about making the new leveling cheaper, so they could level all of their alts. That got into debated about inflation, which led into another debate about enchanting.

    First, IMO they don't want us scrubs reaching level 70, so yeah, they made it really expensive. The OP clearly states they are mad, because "it will take about a month to level 1 character to level 70." If you have 12 alts, it will take you a year. IMO that is the answer given to everyone saying they are bored and need something to do. So, if someone has reached the top, this patch will give them another month of game time to play to reach the 70 goal.

    Second, that whole inflation argument from Kamizuma is ridiculous and has even nothing to do with the OP. There is no way they'd ever make end game leveling cost only 200k, so that whole point is silly. Yes, there is inflation, but you're getting the cause and effects all messed up. They are making more ways to earn gold, because they are having to offset the increased cost of enchanting rather than the cost of enchanting increasing from them adding more ways to earn gold.

    Third, yes, they seriously need to revamp their enchanting systems, because people are really getting irate about the failure rates. When the new enchanting system came out, I didn't even bother enchanting gear. It was fine before when we could get enchanting supplies from events, but now, when you have to shell out so much gold, there is just no benefit to casual players like myself. Unless I ran dungeons and desperately needed the stat increase, what is there enticing me to level gear? There is nothing. The gold and failure rates alone are enough to make many players not even bother.

    Fourth, you people are missing the big picture. They aren't adding things into the game to force you to grind them all to completion. The PVP system was added for the people that just want to PVP. If you don't want to do the battlegrounds, don't do them. However, there are many players that are wanting to grind for the highest levels and need and constant flow of things to grind for. Hence, why we're getting all of the end game stuff that will take months to complete. I do agree that it is a lot of work, but if we all could max everything within days, there would be no elites and everyone would get bored with nothing to do. Some goals just aren't meant to be completed in a day; some take weeks, months or even years. I am stretching my Tera goals out to years, so my main will be maxed some time around 2025.I plan to level up my alts within about 20 years after that.

    BTW, all of this is being done, because of players just like you that don't want level equalized PVP. They want higher levels that will be out of the reach of most players. Just think of all of the players now with HO gear and the players that got that gear soon after it came out. Sure, the general pop is mad, because they feel left out, but it's not often that updates will please everyone.
  • Christin wrote: »
    Some goals just aren't meant to be completed in a day; some take weeks, months or even years. I am stretching my Tera goals out to years, so my main will be maxed some time around 2025.I plan to level up my alts within about 20 years after that.

    Which is why new gear every 6 months completely destroys the idea of taking anything slowly. All your hard work gets made almost entirely redundant. Having my full set of VM7 become outdated a few days after I completed it didn't cause me to get excited at the prospect of getting even better stuff, it just disappointed me that it was kinda all for a few moments of glory. Same thing happened with Stormcry, by the time I had finally invested such a huge amount of time and effort into it, Heroic Oath came out of nowhere and the worst part is enchanting costs weren't even adjusted, they just got incrementally worse.

    Level 70 looks more like an attempt at slowing down the 0.1% who get maxed equipment in the first couple weeks of a new patch than it does an attempt to give the wider population a more solid thing to work towards, because considering how enchanting works in the first place the chances of them being able to afford the benefits of that level progression are...slim.

    Like I said, it's almost impossible to tell what the developers want from the players at this point. They've always made noises about disdain for players getting VM and +15 in the first week of a patch, as well as 100 clear titles in less than a month, but have only ever addressed it by attacking the tiny percentage of players who do that while simultaneously screwing over literally everyone else. The changes to reset scrolls were a good example of that, since it was to slow down the 100-clear-title rushers but made simply playing the game normally an absolute nightmare for everyone. A bit off topic, but still relevant to the question "wtf does bhs/krafton expect us to do".
  • edited February 22
    A bit off topic, but still relevant to the question "wtf does bhs/krafton expect us to do".

    If I reverse interpret by their actions, I would guess two things:

    1) Increase playtime. As much as people complain about the endless grind, there's a hardcore group who does it anyway because they're addicted to this game and want to keep up with their hardcore peers. Their data must suggest that no matter how long of a grind they put in front of this group of hardcore players, they'll still tackle it (and if there's not enough of a grind, they'll play less).

    2) Increase revenue. Putting a giant progression wall in front of players, but dangling a way to ease that grind by spending money on the cash shop (hello gem/talent crates), is a "good" (if, IMO, ethically questionable) way of making money. It's the classic F2P mobile game model. Their argument is that it is possible to get there entirely F2P (and people here have proven that it's possible), but they've just made it really burdensome.

    They basically sacrificed the "alt-a-holic" audience in shifting to this approach (and as an alt-a-holic myself, it negatively impacted me a lot). But clearly somebody high up in the company thinks that they see better metrics by pushing people more towards focusing on their mains, not alts.

    The other problem with both of those two points is that they keep losing people with each iteration, and this "tightening the noose" makes things worse and makes people less likely to come back. But, hey, it's their game...
  • 1) Increase playtime. As much as people complain about the endless grind, there's a hardcore group who does it anyway because they're addicted to this game and want to keep up with their hardcore peers. Their data must suggest that no matter how long of a grind they put in front of this group of hardcore players, they'll still tackle it (and if there's not enough of a grind, they'll play less).

    2) Increase revenue. Putting a giant progression wall in front of players, but dangling a way to ease that grind by spending money on the cash shop (hello gem/talent crates), is a "good" (if, IMO, ethically questionable) way of making money. It's the classic F2P mobile game model. Their argument is that it is possible to get there entirely F2P (and people here have proven that it's possible), but they've just made it really burdensome.
    -
    The other problem with both of those two points is that they keep losing people with each iteration, and this "tightening the noose" makes things worse and makes people less likely to come back. But, hey, it's their game...

    If that's the case, then the implication seems to be that they've given up on the long term and now plan to just cash in on the whales still playing the game before they close it all down for good.
  • Gold inst the only problem, dugen rewards are lame, gift zero materials to enchant.
    PvP credit store materials were removed. Only left whales materials, Island of dawn boxes used to gift 7 or 8 pieces or mats even 16 in the good times. now every free material box, crate, etc gift 2 items per box, epic sad. You need 2.000.000 of boxes to enchant.

    metamorphs were removed only because whales abuse of them. Casual players face too much time for get materials. People leave so fast due to reach stormcry+0 is also a problem.

    I dont know who was the genius behind boxing nerf. But destroyed all the passion for this game. Now we face 2 months and 2.000.000 gold to level 70.1 char , seems like the last nail in the coffin.
  • If that's the case, then the implication seems to be that they've given up on the long term and now plan to just cash in on the whales still playing the game before they close it all down for good.
    This is pretty much Krafton's objective (leverage existing franchises as cash grabs). Prior to their recent reorganization and corporate renaming, they (Bluehole) were abysmally late to the mobile party (even though the majority of the subsidiary studios acquired in the former Bluehole Alliance now known as the Krafton Game Union, were mainly mobile dev studios) when it came to their main IP's (the company literally had PUBG on the brain for the last 2+ years). Despite that, they were equally late to capitalizing on PUBG's success by only leveraging a cross-franchise tie up now in 2019 (this would have been more impactful back in 2017). A:IR (in development since 2014) is pretty much the only "new" PC game they have on the docket for release in the next 2-3 years (with the SEA version looking to potentially release before KR and NA/EU until they can meet whatever requirements Kakao needs for monetization) while the other projects well into development are primarily mobile titles (a new franchise with the codename Project BB as well as TERA Frontier); they really had little to show at G-Star 2018 a few months ago compared to other studios like NCSoft and Nexon.

    Both TERA and PUBG, they plan to milk as long as possible though. For TERA, just don't expect a cohesive vision that focuses on some long term plan to actually grow the player base by a large amount since that isn't priority #1. Some designs/features being implemented in TERA are actually coming from a portfolio of ideas that were never actioned on for Devilian now that they put that IP to rest with the recent reorganization. TERA Frontier is a mobilized version of PC TERA (unlike TERA M which they licensed to Netmarble to develop and publish; it is set in the exact same time frame and story arc) so you kind of get the idea of what angle Krafton is going with for the TERA IP. As counterpoint mentioned, some of their decisions are data driven (when it comes to the demographic that logs in and puts in hours playing as well as the revenues being generated).
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭

    I literally cannot comprehend what the devs even want from the players at this point, it's just madness.

    It is the same here to be honest.


    The equalized PvP was simply blasted to mars by adding the new system considering that we can spend months of farming only to down grade on gear and especially since the materials can be acquired only from a battleground that causes so much frustration meaning that nobody wants to do... which ends up with almost everyone giving up on the PvP completely up to the point where even now there is barely any Corsairs up which is a non equalized battleground while the last Civil Unrest as example ended in only 13 minutes because at least half the guilds that used to do it decided to give up entirely on it. And if we add the fact that there will be the new polished skills which will create even more discrepancy then the battlegrounds and the PvP in general could no longer be active for the next few months because a good percentage of the population will not want to fight the ones that could get to 70s faster and get improved skills since it will take up to a month only to level up to 70 to furthermore have to pay up to 2mil per character for the new polished skills.

    Then the PvE will be hit as hard since we will no longer be able to use the alts as efficiently as we did until now considering how slow it will be to get to level 70 and then the need to have to spend so much gold for the polished skills while there will be even more anger and frustration in general with all the mains when the kicks and blacklists from dungeons will happen for those that do not have level 70 yet and/or polished skills done ( there will also be the adventure token which seemed to started some upsets ).


    This game is not getting harder. This game is getting impossible to play because there will be no battlegrounds/dungeons active anymore considering that it already has a low population.

    why cant you use alts? non of the dungeons etc are getting removed? you can still farm and passivley level alts and the current gear with the exception of accessories recently is still bis.
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