Rollback Discussion

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  • MeningitisMeningitis ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    snip for space
    I also agree with pretty much everything you've said here. It's a difficult process and the decision can't be made lightly. But Eme will have to decide swiftly regardless due to the nature of a live service.

    I think the main argument is that most players shouldn't have gotten that big of a slice of cake to begin with. I was one of those people who got an absolutely gobsmacking sack of gold and got costumes from broker during the initial buy-panic, but I still think they should seriously consider a roll back.
  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    Meningitis wrote: »
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    EME does what BHS tells em to do. There is little we can do about it. If BHS (Krafton) tells em to leave the prices alone, then EME will comply.
    I'm very aware of this. The least they can do is tell BHS to give them their reasoning to help quell the panic. Though I'm sure it wouldn't do much, but it'd be something.

    A rollback is very hard to perform right now.
    Im well aware that there is an apparent bug with the dismantling of semi scrolls. I believe that part as much should be rolled back, and there would be a good reason for it.

    But a rollback at this point to me, looks like a double edge sword.

    On one edge, you have the people who missed big time on the reset scrolls gold price sale. As always, everyone who misses out, comes out to complain, and demands changes to be made, in this case, a rollback.

    On the other edge, you have the people who didnt missed out, the ppl who made big money out of the reset scrolls, and bought a lot of stuff on the broker, stuff they wanted, like costumes, and already soulbinded them to their main characters or whatever.

    What do you tell those people, if the server gets rolled back and they lose all the things they already bought? Do you just tell em "serve you right for not letting me have a slice of the cake" ??

    You cannot just do a rollback without negative consequences.
    The economy will stabilize, right now everything is inflated, but it will stabilize, but if you ask me, i believe everyone who is complaining about the gold inflation, are the ones who missed on the reset scroll thing, even tho it was a thing that was being discussed since months ago.

    Rollback isnt something so easy as to press the big red button. Thread carefully with this, because just as many players are pissed right now, with a rollback, you will [filtered] off the other half of the players, so you wouldn't be making anyone happy.

    This isn't about the reset scrolls, unless the prices were changed later.
    This is about the SES issue.

    To which i said already im well aware of it, and should be fixed. But i keep hearing a lot of people simply complaining about the reset scrolls being part of the economy disaster, mainly those who missed out on the selling of said scrolls.

    But the SES issue should be addressed, i do not disagree with anyone on that, but i still hold my ground, that a rollback should be threaded carefully.
  • MeningitisMeningitis ✭✭✭✭
    This isn't about the reset scrolls, unless the prices were changed later.
    This is about the SES issue.
    This is about both. A lot of people are really concerned with how this gold gap will affect new players in progression. Especially in the talyph department, because even if inflation/broker prices lower due to goldsink into talyph, there's no way for new players to make up that huge gap.
  • edited April 10
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    On the other edge, you have the people who didnt missed out, the ppl who made big money out of the reset scrolls, and bought a lot of stuff on the broker, stuff they wanted, like costumes, and already soulbinded them to their main characters or whatever.

    What do you tell those people, if the server gets rolled back and they lose all the things they already bought? Do you just tell em "serve you right for not letting me have a slice of the cake" ??

    You cannot just do a rollback without negative consequences.

    Well, in fairness, if you did a rollback all the items they bought would be back in the state they were before, and they would have a chance to earn/buy them on a more equal playing field like everyone else. Yeah it'd suck to win the lottery and then wake up again like Groundhog Day, but it doesn't mean the disproportionate winnings were fair to start with.

    I think this is a bit more nuanced than "the people who missed out are mad at the people who won big." It's a lot more about fairness and longevity. Consider the impact over-generous events back in the day had on the in-game economy, and now multiple that by tens/hundreds. The amount of time it will take for the impact to be worked through the game is huge, and the people who will suffer most are new players.

    It's not really possible to just rollback the semi-exploit on its own either, so it's all or nothing. It's not easy to cleanup the semi-exploit mess in isolation due to the ripple effects on the economy.

    Obviously I do agree that it's a serious issue that needs serious consideration, and not something you do lightly/flippantly. People will be mad in either case. But in the end, I personally would tend to favor fairness and balance:

    1) Elite Consumable Boxes should be locked into the state they were when purchased/earned, and their contents should not change (have their value lessened) retroactively.
    2) Scroll sale prices should be balanced to re-consider the total quantity in the economy taking into consideration Elite Consumable Box supplies
    3) Obviously, the semi exploit should never have happened.

    In my view this would be the more fair and equitable approach for the game on the whole. To accomplish that would require a reset, and all the according consequences that would cause. But, in my opinion, it would be the right thing to do.
  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭
    Meningitis wrote: »
    This isn't about the reset scrolls, unless the prices were changed later.
    This is about the SES issue.
    This is about both. A lot of people are really concerned with how this gold gap will affect new players in progression. Especially in the talyph department, because even if inflation/broker prices lower due to goldsink into talyph, there's no way for new players to make up that huge gap.

    TBH??? say that the gold talent price stays like that:

    With such an inflated price, new players could just sell their spare gold talents, and make a decent amount of gold, more than enough to carry them through the gearing. The smart player will see this as an opportunity, and will take it.

    I understand the problems, but thinking from the point of view of a new player, this would be what i would do, just sell my spare materials, for a good chunk of gold, and keep farming without having to every worry about the gold price for enchanting.
  • MythologiqueMythologique ✭✭
    edited April 10
    At the end of the day, EME is part of the KRAFTON family anyway, so all it really means is that they follow a chain of command. EME's job right now is to collect clear and actionable player feedback and relay it to BHS ASAP.

    So long as they make the effort to inform the community of progress and apologise for the massive amount of chaos this has caused, rather than a shrug of the shoulders and making their first response to the outrage "it's not our fault". Surely the angry masses would rather hear some kind of apology for the mess and comforting indication of complaints being acknowledged and passed on BEFORE the knee-[filtered] "we didn't do it".
  • MeningitisMeningitis ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    TBH??? say that the gold talent price stays like that:

    With such an inflated price, new players could just sell their spare gold talents, and make a decent amount of gold, more than enough to carry them through the gearing. The smart player will see this as an opportunity, and will take it.

    I understand the problems, but thinking from the point of view of a new player, this would be what i would do, just sell my spare materials, for a good chunk of gold, and keep farming without having to every worry about the gold price for enchanting.
    Again, I'm inclined to agree with you here. New players could make a regular living if prices stay inflated.
    The real problem will present itself if material prices do drop back down to normal, at least in my opinion. That's why I'm in favor of a roll back myself. Because I do think that the talyph sink will combat the inflation as more people reach for 70, since it's like 4mil per character. That gap in progression would be pretty disheartening to new folk.
    But if gold inflation stays the same, people will start complaining about vg gold rewards again. This cycle never seems to end. I won't pretend that I know the best solution or all of the angles to this delicate issue.

    I do tend to think the SES incident is more important though. People have said they can fix it without having a roll back. Dunno how true that is.
  • edited April 10
    At the end of the day, EME is part of the KRAFTON family anyway, so all it really means is that they follow a chain of command. EME's job right now is to collect clear and actionable player feedback and relay it to BHS ASAP.

    So long as they make the effort to inform the community of progress and apologise for the massive amount of chaos this has caused, rather than a shrug of the shoulders and making their first response to the outrage "it's not our fault". Surely the angry masses would rather hear some kind of apology for the mess and comforting indication of complaints being acknowledged and passed on BEFORE the knee-[filtered] "we didn't do it".

    In fairness, that was in direct response to a question of whether BHS had set/reviewed the price on Discord. It was not a general/official response to the situation on behalf of all EME. I do think they should have a general response, particularly once they decide what to do with the current situation.
  • SametbhSametbh ✭✭✭
    I saw this posted somewhere. tyeme.png

    ThisIsFine.jpg

    Definitely need that rollback. Can't adequately reverse the effect of this. There's indirect effects and a lot of trades involved.
  • LostlislandLostlisland ✭✭
    edited April 10
    I disagree. A rollback is pretty feasible.
    As for saying some people are salty because they missed out, not true... I made 8 millions myself from the scrolls I had, and I already have 30 million in my bank.

    Not only the economy is [filtered] up.
    You literally shat on every persons face that bought EMP. In what right does someone just earns 10-20 million for doing literally nothing ?

    Gold is much worse than duping items. Duping items that has no value in itself has no bearing on the economy as a whole.
  • > @Sametbh said:
    > I saw this posted somewhere.
    >
    > ThisIsFine.jpg
    >
    > Definitely need that rollback. Can't adequately reverse the effect of this. There's indirect effects and a lot of trades involved.



    This is a substantial exploit.
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. A rollback is pretty feasible.
    As for saying some people are salty because they missed out, not true... I made 8 millions myself from the scrolls I had, and I already have 30 million in my bank.

    Not only the economy is [filtered] up.
    You literally shat on every persons face that bought EMP. In what right does someone just earns 10-20 million for doing literally nothing ?

    Gold is much worse than duping items. Duping items that has no value in itself bearing no effect on the economy as a whole.

    The other thing is who even needs to sell emp for gold now LOL

    Hard to keep a free to play game alive when people don't have the need to buy :(
  • Meningitis wrote: »
    I do tend to think the SES incident is more important though. People have said they can fix it without having a roll back. Dunno how true that is.
    It can be done without a roll back BUT it still takes man hours to manually go through the data. That is how Trion Worlds (a now dead publisher that didn't rank very well with me) handled some similar issues like this (not all since there were known land hack and dupe issues in ArcheAge they didn't deal with very well) in several of the games they published. They often times chose not to perform a rollback because of the issues with lost progression for players completely out of the loop (including new players who happened to be playing when the shenanigans were happening).

    Instead, they had their personnel manually go through data (it helped that they had two data people employed at the time who could pull that information into reports that their assembled teams could go through). EME could do something similar (since they have a fairly short/specific time frame of data they would need to go through). I realize they are personnel strapped BUT something important like this, they should do what is right.
  • edited April 10
    when TERA na became venezuela's, only eme could do it. this is so hillarious bigsmile.jpg xD
  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    TE5AGN6R97 wrote: »
    when TERA na became venezuela's, only eme could do it. this is so hillarious bigsmile.jpg xD

    Outstanding comment.
    Sort of accurate as well.
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