Rollback Discussion

HitAhARD16 · April 2019

counterpoint wrote: »

YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »

Melyodis wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

Melyodis wrote: »

NA player base is to greedy, the economy would have never stabilized.

THIS is the reason there is a rollback because the greedy peeps didnt get to cash in also, lol.

And your still here missing the point is not about the gold dude. You got gold free for hoarding some scroll and yet still listing items for far more that its worth and what about the ses exploit. I saw the rollback was asked for after the ses expoilt was leaked, cause those who found it refrained from reporting it that's just greed of its self. No honesty or morals. None of this happend on EU why? they not greedy like us.

Your done rich and still want to be more rich. why didn't golden talents raise to 90g to cover the 2%, or the golden plates that i saw for 3k per plates raise to 700g and what about the other items costumes ect that went sky high. The issue is greed its not about the gold we all got from the reset scrolls.

You fail to understand the concept of a free market. An item is worth what someone will pay for it. The seller has to pay a listing fee regardless, so they will lose money if they post for a price people will not buy at.
Not only rich people sell.
Poor people and new players have an opportunity to sell stuff too, at increased prices, see my prior posts.
The market wasn't "ruined" due to the short term inflation. Infact, it gave poor people a very great opportunity (read up on the greater fool theory) to sell some very easy to get stuff at a nice price and level out the gold and reach an equilibrium.

There's nothing "free market" about this. Imagine you wake up one morning, and 1/3 of the people in your city suddenly won the lottery and have millions of dollars while the rest don't. Are you really going to tell the people who didn't win "don't worry -- it's a free market, it'll all work out in time"? In our case, this imbalanced change would have completely upended the intended progression flow of the game in completely unpredictable ways for months, and to the massive benefit of those who "won the lottery." It's some real twisted logic to tell the people who didn't win "actually this is good for you, really" when the people it's most good for are those who exploited.

You're basically saying "you should overlook this grave unfairness, and look to the bright side of how this might actually benefit you!" and that's just ridiculous. How about we address the underlying unfairness.

I would seriously ask if they had bought a lotto ticket or not. Cant win if you dont play.

Zoknahal · April 2019

A rollback was needed, but it could had been handled better.

Main issue was the exploit of the semi scrolls. I would believe the sell back prices of the scrolls would had been stabilized after a few days, but what really broke the economy was the exploit of the Semi Scrolls.

I cant say im not frustrated, as i am one of those players who was only gonna use the newly made fortune in gearing alts, and paying for kits and stuff. The "drastically" reduced price on the scrolls might look like a total insult to some who made millions, if not properly managed.

I am sorry for those who lost progress and bought items with this, me included, but i suppose, i can get em back once the servers are up if the price is right.

MargaretRose · April 2019

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »

Time to ask all players their start date when they apply to my LFGs so I can actually kill the game by denying them from my parties so they have no reason to play, since they want to cry to the forums and have my personal time (HINT: THIS IS THE IMPORTANT THING. PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN OFF WORK JUST TO BE SLAPPED IN THE FACE) rolled back because they couldn't make the same gold as someone who's had elite for close to 5 years straight.

No, my start date is May 1, 2012 when the game launched and I've been a subscriber or Elite basically the entire time. There is a perspective that is about a lot more than just "what's in it for me." These economic exploits completely undervalued the time we all spent in the game, veterans and new players alike -- not just the last 16 hours of time, but years of time spent in the game. So this decision actually was about valuing your time. The short term pain will pass.

What economic exploits my dude? SES to golden talents that people have been complaining they need to introduce more into the game OR the GOLD? I finally got paid then capitalized on all the time and money for elite ive spent in the game. The deal with the rollback im sure is the greed of the people that missed out.

I have a hard time believing that you're arguing in good faith, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself after this. When people exploit the economy for selfish gain, the entire game loses. The people who exploited got an advantage they did not deserve at all. That includes you. You did not deserve to "get paid" for "all the time and money for elite" more than anyone else who paid the same thing, just because you opened your Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch and others who weren't aware did not. This is blatantly and obvious unfair. If this was an award given to all Elite players globally as a thanks for their loyalty and all paying subscribers could benefit, great. (I'm in generally favor of loyalty rewards for long-time Elite subscribers, by the way.) But that's not what this was.

You're accusing people arguing out of self-interest, but you're just projecting your own reasons for the argument into the debate. Fairness is a principle that has nothing to do with whether you personally won or lost in the deal.

No need to repeat yourself my dude. How it it an "exploit" when it was a possibility for anybody with an elite box to make gold? The ability for anybody to cash in was there. It was not just the lucky few. It literally was open knowledge to anybody that was interested and watched EU's patch. Two weeks this knowledge was out. It was literally stated that the gold from the scrolls were adjusted to NA's economy by a mod already. Its not an exploit an exploit was the SES to SEMI to SES loop my dude. The elite was open to anybody that had elite status. The fact that people didnt see this coming from two weeks ago is the funny part. As for selfish gain my dude KAMI and FELLOW are a thing. No group of people should have that much influence over the TB. Buying low and selling high (the nature of the TB) is an exploit using your logic. The info was out there people that didnt look into the patch lost out, just like a character that auto attacks in RMHM probably didnt look for info on how to play said character.

All this talk of how the game got broke is just people and their greed. I got more rich from the scrolls. BUT i will still be rich after this rollback.
SES loop yes and exploit: PATCHED
GOLD influx not an exploit: Rollback
Im not entitled to anything, i just capitalized on a opportunity (buy LOW sell HIGH) *exploit*

Of course im putting my opinion into my posts just as you and everybody else is in this thread.
Tell me where the fairness is when i do my homework and pass when the people who didnt bomb so, everybody gets a C across the board for.
*FAIRNESS*

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

HitAhARD16 · April 2019

Zoknahal wrote: »

Main issue was the exploit of the semi scrolls. I would believe the sell back prices of the scrolls would had been stabilized after a few days, but what really broke the economy was the exploit of the Semi Scrolls.

How is the introduction of massive amounts of un-tradable crafting mats and huge amounts of gold and silver talents that people have been complaining about being a pain to get for the last months a game breaker?

Naru2008 · April 2019

Zoknahal wrote: »

A rollback was needed, but it could had been handled better.

Main issue was the exploit of the semi scrolls. I would believe the sell back prices of the scrolls would had been stabilized after a few days, but what really broke the economy was the exploit of the Semi Scrolls.

I cant say im not frustrated, as i am one of those players who was only gonna use the newly made fortune in gearing alts, and paying for kits and stuff. The "drastically" reduced price on the scrolls might look like a total insult to some who made millions, if not properly managed.

I am sorry for those who lost progress and bought items with this, me included, but i suppose, i can get em back once the servers are up if the price is right.

Essentially me with this tbh.

and if any of you are on Velika and I gave you some of the gold I had gotten from my Reset Scrolls, i'm terribly sorry you're getting yet another slap in the face, since the reason I was giving you all gold was because you already didn't know about the selling of the scrolls and didn't open your boxes.

I'm sorry you don't get to keep the gold, guys.

clfarron4 · April 2019

counterpoint wrote: »

YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »

Melyodis wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

Melyodis wrote: »

NA player base is to greedy, the economy would have never stabilized.

THIS is the reason there is a rollback because the greedy peeps didnt get to cash in also, lol.

And your still here missing the point is not about the gold dude. You got gold free for hoarding some scroll and yet still listing items for far more that its worth and what about the ses exploit. I saw the rollback was asked for after the ses expoilt was leaked, cause those who found it refrained from reporting it that's just greed of its self. No honesty or morals. None of this happend on EU why? they not greedy like us.

Your done rich and still want to be more rich. why didn't golden talents raise to 90g to cover the 2%, or the golden plates that i saw for 3k per plates raise to 700g and what about the other items costumes ect that went sky high. The issue is greed its not about the gold we all got from the reset scrolls.

You fail to understand the concept of a free market. An item is worth what someone will pay for it. The seller has to pay a listing fee regardless, so they will lose money if they post for a price people will not buy at.
Not only rich people sell.
Poor people and new players have an opportunity to sell stuff too, at increased prices, see my prior posts.
The market wasn't "ruined" due to the short term inflation. Infact, it gave poor people a very great opportunity (read up on the greater fool theory) to sell some very easy to get stuff at a nice price and level out the gold and reach an equilibrium.

There's nothing "free market" about this. Imagine you wake up one morning, and 1/3 of the people in your city suddenly won the lottery and have millions of dollars while the rest don't. Are you really going to tell the people who didn't win "don't worry -- it's a free market, it'll all work out in time"? In our case, this imbalanced change would have completely upended the intended progression flow of the game in completely unpredictable ways for months, and to the massive benefit of those who "won the lottery." It's some real twisted logic to tell the people who didn't win "actually this is good for you, really" when the people it's most good for are those who exploited.

You're basically saying "you should overlook this grave unfairness, and look to the bright side of how this might actually benefit you!" and that's just ridiculous. How about we address the underlying unfairness.

I think we do understand the concept of a free market and the TERA market is usually a free market.

The problem that we have is this: The publisher has given so much buying power to those that converted scrolls into gold that a few people actually bought everything on the broker. This is the same as your countries central bank making a few people billionaires and leaving everyone else as it is at the drop of a hat.

And in this situation, EME thinks that it is so out-of-balance that they need to intervene, making it a temporarily co-ordinated market. I mean, the biggest assumption that some people seem to make is that video game environments are democracies and fair. They're not.

clfarron4 · April 2019

On the SES issue: Is that an issue, given the shortage of materials which has progressively made more and more people quit since this gearing system was introduced?

EJECWCWG55 · April 2019

MargaretRose wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »

Time to ask all players their start date when they apply to my LFGs so I can actually kill the game by denying them from my parties so they have no reason to play, since they want to cry to the forums and have my personal time (HINT: THIS IS THE IMPORTANT THING. PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN OFF WORK JUST TO BE SLAPPED IN THE FACE) rolled back because they couldn't make the same gold as someone who's had elite for close to 5 years straight.

No, my start date is May 1, 2012 when the game launched and I've been a subscriber or Elite basically the entire time. There is a perspective that is about a lot more than just "what's in it for me." These economic exploits completely undervalued the time we all spent in the game, veterans and new players alike -- not just the last 16 hours of time, but years of time spent in the game. So this decision actually was about valuing your time. The short term pain will pass.

What economic exploits my dude? SES to golden talents that people have been complaining they need to introduce more into the game OR the GOLD? I finally got paid then capitalized on all the time and money for elite ive spent in the game. The deal with the rollback im sure is the greed of the people that missed out.

I have a hard time believing that you're arguing in good faith, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself after this. When people exploit the economy for selfish gain, the entire game loses. The people who exploited got an advantage they did not deserve at all. That includes you. You did not deserve to "get paid" for "all the time and money for elite" more than anyone else who paid the same thing, just because you opened your Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch and others who weren't aware did not. This is blatantly and obvious unfair. If this was an award given to all Elite players globally as a thanks for their loyalty and all paying subscribers could benefit, great. (I'm in generally favor of loyalty rewards for long-time Elite subscribers, by the way.) But that's not what this was.

You're accusing people arguing out of self-interest, but you're just projecting your own reasons for the argument into the debate. Fairness is a principle that has nothing to do with whether you personally won or lost in the deal.

No need to repeat yourself my dude. How it it an "exploit" when it was a possibility for anybody with an elite box to make gold? The ability for anybody to cash in was there. It was not just the lucky few. It literally was open knowledge to anybody that was interested and watched EU's patch. Two weeks this knowledge was out. It was literally stated that the gold from the scrolls were adjusted to NA's economy by a mod already. Its not an exploit an exploit was the SES to SEMI to SES loop my dude. The elite was open to anybody that had elite status. The fact that people didnt see this coming from two weeks ago is the funny part. As for selfish gain my dude KAMI and FELLOW are a thing. No group of people should have that much influence over the TB. Buying low and selling high (the nature of the TB) is an exploit using your logic. The info was out there people that didnt look into the patch lost out, just like a character that auto attacks in RMHM probably didnt look for info on how to play said character.

All this talk of how the game got broke is just people and their greed. I got more rich from the scrolls. BUT i will still be rich after this rollback.
SES loop yes and exploit: PATCHED
GOLD influx not an exploit: Rollback
Im not entitled to anything, i just capitalized on a opportunity (buy LOW sell HIGH) *exploit*

Of course im putting my opinion into my posts just as you and everybody else is in this thread.
Tell me where the fairness is when i do my homework and pass when the people who didnt bomb so, everybody gets a C across the board for.
*FAIRNESS*

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

It is not, because the robbers should be jailed and here exploiters are not punished. This makes this even worse because exploiters are running free even with the rollback.

Werid · April 2019

I personally don't see that bad the reset scroll bug since it was like a useful reward for elite players and old players and since elite now sucks with the 2% taxes and the things they removed on this patch it was a good thing since elite costs real money.

MargaretRose · April 2019

clfarron4 wrote: »

On the SES issue: Is that an issue, given the shortage of materials which has progressively made more and more people quit since this gearing system was introduced?

So the proper solution for that issue is an exploit/bug?

VictoriaKeat · April 2019

clfarron4 wrote: »

On the SES issue: Is that an issue, given the shortage of materials which has progressively made more and more people quit since this gearing system was introduced?

Yes it is. Golden talents and silver talents are not an easy thing to obtain on NA. While EU has very much easier time, NA has to wait for double vanguard event, and then grind for hours on Tier 1 IOD to get any decent amount of the talents. And even during those events the prices of the talents do not drop enough to go crazy on buying them.

HitAhARD16 · April 2019

MargaretRose wrote: »

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

I need another example that ones iffy honestly. So im the robber in this example or am i the protection for the bank? Dont the robbers become criminals? So im a criminal now?

clfarron4 · April 2019

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

MargaretRose wrote: »

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

I need another example that ones iffy honestly. So im the robber in this example or am i the protection for the bank? Dont the robbers become criminals? So im a criminal now?

Better example is the one I used. The central bank in your country printing free money for a few people to make them rich. I think Counterpoint used it too.

Naru2008 · April 2019

clfarron4 wrote: »

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

MargaretRose wrote: »

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

I need another example that ones iffy honestly. So im the robber in this example or am i the protection for the bank? Dont the robbers become criminals? So im a criminal now?

Better example is the one I used. The central bank in your country printing free money for a few people to make them rich. I think Counterpoint used it too.

Banks don't print money? They lend it?

MargaretRose · April 2019

HitAhARD16 wrote: »

MargaretRose wrote: »

Of course, shall we have another example?
A bank is unprotected, so people rob it.
Later, noticing the lack of protection, the bank is protected.
All robbers are free to enjoy their rewards for robbery.
Seems fair?

I need another example that ones iffy honestly. So im the robber in this example or am i the protection for the bank? Dont the robbers become criminals? So im a criminal now?

No other examples come to mind at the moment.
It's supposed to mean players that abused the SES bug were rewarded.
While those that didn't abuse it before removal, are basically said, "sorry you didn't abuse it in time."
Apologies if it didn't make sense.

Rollback Discussion

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