Where is the game headed and it's current direction. Open to opinions and discussion.

I've been browsing this and I'm somewhat confused. I don't know if it's been brought up or not.
I really do not understand the goal of the massive BAM event. Enlarged and enhanced enemies we've already fought that give ALL of it's loot to the person that gets the last hit.
No experience offered to the rest of the group.
No loot what so ever offered to the rest of the group.
Once again, mechanics and rewards that are promoting less and less co-operation and endorsing endless and rather pointless competition, wasting the time of everyone as quick hitting classes can literally spam auto attack or low cool down-high hit count skills (specially ranged classes) with little to no consequence at the highest chance of getting the killing blow.

I don't understand why there's this seemingly relentless need to endorse competition beyond cooperation as there was once (for better or worse) in open world events such as Nexus, where while everyone was racing to get the most nodes possible, everyone had a common interest of finishing all the portals to ensure you'd get the final instance.
The Rally is now a competition where the rewards get progressively worse as you get left out of the good raids, usually lead by the small-circled top tier guilds in each server. You have a raid of 15-20 players in full 460ilvl against 30 players in 440-450 hoping for the best, and in the current state of the game, the skill difference and gear makes enough of a gap where it's rather hard to get top scores for the large but inexperienced groups. So you're endorsing and empowering the top tier players with more gold, more loot they just recirculate, instead of allowing loot based on overall performance of the group. Timed rewards like the Superior Guardian missions being a decent example, enticing both high and low geared players to come for with similar rewards. I understand these changes would require substantial balancing for them to be appealing to everyone.

I know it's not entire black and white either, but I'm finding it more and more exhausting to be part of these events, which happen to be what gives notably higher rewards compared to an endless farm from dungeons. What direction is the game aiming at? Entry level players and mid tier players are getting left behind by the hardcore players, with less and less opportunity to improve and move at a decent pace in relation to gear.

It's legitimately concerning as an old player that has taken breaks here and there to see the game deviate from co-operation more and more into stages of ONLY competition. Rewarding the best players in the server for accomplishments, time and effort spent is perfectly understandable and I think it should stay with both titles and material rewards.
But there are some open world mechanics that could, and in my personal opinion SHOULD, bring the player base together, and they're only further enforcing the very steep difference between those with gear at the high skill cap and those struggling for the scraps still getting into it. Instead of giving the learners and stragglers a place to see the fruits of those that have progressed and have reached the skill ceiling of the game, they keep getting stomped in PvE events that could certainly help them out. I'm @ 455 ilvl as a Priest and it's actually sad to see people getting absolutely nothing every time they try. People are legitimately jumping ship to other games over stuff like this because they see themselves getting absolutely nothing from the effort and most importantly time they put in.

Please feel free to comment your experience with this but keep it respectful. Would appreciate people not dismissing my personal experience with the latest introductions to the NA game. I understand my topic brings up wide issues that I haven't bothered to expand on such as the steep learning curve that happens once the rather brainless leveling experience ends, the inner workings of the game economy which could allow starting players to simply play the market until they're very comfortably in the millions of gold, people getting boosted by friends or guild mates, people hunting world bosses religiously and other methods of improving their gear and economic standing in the game.
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Comments

  • Very well written and I agree. I can relate to your frustrations being a Priest as well as a returning player.

    But you must also remember that during NEXUS there were guilds in present guild wars creating competition and PVP drama all over the place. it would make it hard to cooperate in Nexus. People who did not have a party in nexus felt left out and the Prominent guilds would run the raids and have the luxury of priests being able to Summon the party to the necessary portals etc. I have also seen a serge of PVPkers killing low item levels while they are trying to quest again. So that nastiness which was always present is rearing its ugly face again. It is easy for returning players to only focus on the good aspects of the game in the past. It could possibly just be the player base is now more competitive and greedy? Who knows.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    Last hit gets the loot is just to annoy everyone. I wouldn't blame the player base. The game is setup to be a massive and desperate grindfest. Therefore, players are desperate for mats and whatever they can get.

    Games need to understand that not everyone wants to grind and grind and go grind more. I get we don't have to bother with 70, but the more they pressure and pressure and require the grind, the more likely new players are going to walk away. People constantly join, feel overwhelmed and leave, because they want to do fun stuff, which the game is lacking. I know this, because new people ask questions and chat around for a couple days while they play, but then, they're suddenly gone.

    Legions were cool, but now, they make us wait and wait just for Tuwangi Training or Bleakrock to spawn. People got a kick out of those legions, but now, they ruined it. Flight missions are faster, but they cut the gold from that to. OK, I will do level III legions to make up for it, wait half an hour for level III missions to spawn.

    It's almost like the game is desperate to force everyone to do what they want us to do. If you can't fill ques, maybe having so many dungeons is the problem. Surely, everyone farming basilisks is helping ques.
  • I know it's not entire black and white either, but I'm finding it more and more exhausting to be part of these events, which happen to be what gives notably higher rewards compared to an endless farm from dungeons. What direction is the game aiming at? Entry level players and mid tier players are getting left behind by the hardcore players, with less and less opportunity to improve and move at a decent pace in relation to gear.

    Part of the reason I stopped playing. I reached a progression brick wall when RKEM was the only endgame, because I needed elemental essence for my gear and the only groups or guilds that were even capable of running RKEM were private, and it didn't matter what my gear was or how skilled a player I was. Only a chosen few got to even learn the instance because of the community's selfish attitude toward what benefited them the most in the short term. As new content came out and gear progressed further beyond Stormcry the issue became worse; the rift between the +9 SC elite and everyone else widened not because of substantial gearing or even skill differences, but because more content and more cost was shoved in between them which most people had neither the resources nor the manpower to tackle. Combine that with the fact that the community had zero interest in helping players bridge that gap and you got a completely broken progression system where you just sat and waited for +9 SC senpai to notice you and give you carries.

    It's just a confused system in general. The game tries to cater to the 1% of the playerbase without acknowledging that 1% is a very small number, and the effects on the community are just...awful. If you're fully geared and you run with a group of good friends who clear everything in the game, what reason do you have to help anyone else out with something? You don't need anything from them, you can't even run the content you care about with them because you already have a full group, and if for some reason you do try to run that content with them there's a high chance that they'll be a detriment due to lack of experience and/or gear, so why bother wasting your own time and taking the risk? It's better not to help anyone. The six months I spent being ignored as a geared and extremely capable Lancer trying to advertise for RKEM and even being shat on by my own damn guild completely destroyed any enthusiasm I once had for progression. Being in LFG for eight hours is beyond a joke.

    But content keeps coming with the same focus and nothing really changes. Things get added to the game with really bizarre bonuses for top performers while nothing is done to motivate them to step outside their circles. You could have some extra people tag along for a world event but then you just have more people to split loot with, and if you can just solo the damn thing then why the hell would you want to do that? It reminds me of the stark contrast between current IoD and the old naga dailies back in 2015 - IoD penalises you for being partied and forces you to kill extra bosses for each person in the party, whereas credit for nagas was shared between the entire party resulting in people always grouping up to make it go faster, often meeting up with friends and chatting away in the process. They canned that because shared kill credit was being exploited by multiclienting (I knew someone who had 14 accounts all with elite, and he'd spend entire days partying up with himself and rotating through all his alts on those accounts just doing nagas), but as a result they completely killed dailies as a group with friends or randoms. Now people race to steal from eachother and always play purely for themselves, because there is literally no reason not to.

    It's not to say that the community hasn't always been so closed off as of course statics will always be statics, I was lucky enough to have one such group myself once upon a time (and I did try to help people, it proved extremely disappointing and unrewarding for a multitude of reasons). Part of the difference is that back then, you still had avenues open to further progression in the form of lucrative dailies for enchanting materials and VM crafting material boxes from dungeons. Now while you could just buy someone else's +15 VM just as you can buy someone's +7 SC now, the current system's linear progression makes buying your gear directly less and less viable the more effort you put into your current equipment. If you're already SC, why would you buy +7? You could potentially enchant up to that level eventually IF you get the OPPORTUNITY to run the dungeons you need for materials. On the contrary if you were stuck at +12 VM, you could literally just double down on your daily grind for extra mats to enchant to +15. Does this mean VM was a better system? Well...not exactly, but at least you weren't completely screwed out of everything you'd invested thus far* because nobody wanted to run a dungeon with you.

    * With regard to the amount of time it could take to gear up versus the amount of time before the next patch hits. Being stuck at +7 SC meant that as new content rolled around I was eternally a couple steps behind the game and could never, ever progress beyond the level that I was at. At least with VM I had no one to blame for me not being fully geared before the next patch dropped except myself for not being more active.

    TL;DR - The 1% don't have a reason to care about anyone else, so they don't. The game no longer allows players to put in extra work by themselves to catch up in gear. Grouping for events was exploited a long time ago and now we get punished for it. Reward systems just suck in general and again, give no reason for the 1% to give a damn about letting anyone else benefit.

    /endrant
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    I think that really is the problem with so many RPG's. Games like Tera make end game content so tough that people become extremely picky about who they run with. Everyone that gets good in the game wants to be an elitist and demand more and more high tier content that only a select few can run. That causes more and more problems for new and unskilled players. Now, Tera is in a situation where new players are seriously going to feel overwhelmed and excluded.

    I think dungeons are great for people that have and want to run group content, but in order to survive, games need to add additional content for the outsiders that want to run tough content but don't want to be forced to do so with a full team. Even if you end up finding a team to run with, eventually, they will move on to other games, which is how many of us ended up as solo players. We don't run or even bother with end game dungeons as we have no interest in the drama that goes along with finding teams to run with. The way people are these days, every mistake they make gets blamed on someone else and every team failure has to get blamed on someone.
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    edited April 17
    Christin wrote: »
    I think that really is the problem with so many RPG's. Games like Tera make end game content so tough that people become extremely picky about who they run with. Everyone that gets good in the game wants to be an elitist and demand more and more high tier content that only a select few can run. That causes more and more problems for new and unskilled players. Now, Tera is in a situation where new players are seriously going to feel overwhelmed and excluded.

    I think dungeons are great for people that have and want to run group content, but in order to survive, games need to add additional content for the outsiders that want to run tough content but don't want to be forced to do so with a full team. Even if you end up finding a team to run with, eventually, they will move on to other games, which is how many of us ended up as solo players. We don't run or even bother with end game dungeons as we have no interest in the drama that goes along with finding teams to run with. The way people are these days, every mistake they make gets blamed on someone else and every team failure has to get blamed on someone.

    DPSmeter also made it even worse because you can look up people performance and average joe get locked out. Some people I ran with never wanted to join my RKEM because theres one guy that can't do much mlg top dps and will bring the party dps down and get mad when I inivite them.

    Also what this game suffer is that people keep leaving after every lackluster patch. You have a static finaly, new patch hits and they leave and you gotta find new people again.
  • I've been browsing this and I'm somewhat confused. I don't know if it's been brought up or not.
    Timed rewards like the Superior Guardian missions being a decent example, enticing both high and low geared players to come for with similar rewards.


    Just gonna put this out there, but superior guardian is a terrible example. The bam has to be killed to get the good rewards, and damage at guardians works in the way that the more players there are, the less damage everyone else does.

    I've, as a HO player, given up on doing superior guardians on channel 1 because sometimes it'll reach a point, especially when the timer was shorter, where the bam is just impossible to kill because you have 15-30 people in guardian/twist/frostmetal lowering your own damage without even meaning to and then barely contributing..I just solo my chars on ch3/4 if I feel like doing superior guardians. 100% kill rate so the parcel at least gets sent.
  • GatokatzenGatokatzen ✭✭✭
    Game is in their last years sadly . Add this they just ported the game to PS4 and Xbox in order to get more players , then Sony and Microsoft launch PS5 and Xboxone 2 . 2020, That’s must be a knife in the hearth, for Tera.
  • KrystalineKrystaline ✭✭
    edited April 17
    Christin wrote: »
    I think that really is the problem with so many RPG's. Games like Tera make end game content so tough that people become extremely picky about who they run with. Everyone that gets good in the game wants to be an elitist and demand more and more high tier content that only a select few can run. That causes more and more problems for new and unskilled players. Now, Tera is in a situation where new players are seriously going to feel overwhelmed and excluded.

    I'm going to throw this out there to new players on Velika who still have to learn the dungeons... I'm new to playing a healing class (in any game) and I've hesitated to queue for groups because I've played the game to lvl 62 solo. I don't have experience healing anyone but myself and the idea of trying to heal a veteran group and being kicked as a baddie while I work on memorizing my healing skill bar doesn't appeal. But I can't learn without a group to learn with.

    If you're new to running lvl 60+ content and want to learn the dungeons together, send me a DM or hit me up in game (Karynn is my priest). What's the worst that could happen?
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the largest problems with TERA in 2019 is that the game actually penalizes you for partying with other players despite being a game in a genre specifically designed around partying with other players.

    To quote a previous poster:
    YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »
    I've, as a HO player, given up on doing superior guardians on channel 1 because sometimes it'll reach a point, especially when the timer was shorter, where the bam is just impossible to kill because you have 15-30 people in guardian/twist/frostmetal lowering your own damage without even meaning to and then barely contributing..I just solo my chars on ch3/4 if I feel like doing superior guardians. 100% kill rate so the parcel at least gets sent.

    I've seen this happen myself: playing with others - in a party or otherwise - actually slows everyone down and lowers the chance of decent rewards for everyone involved. Another example is IoD BAMs - the kill requirement is increased by 100% for each player added, thus actively discouraging playing with others. Anyone else solo Sabex Armory or Macaellius(?) Catacombs? no other people to split the gold or item drops with, thus improving your own chances of getting something you need, even if less items drop.

    There are many other issues as well, such as:
    - class homogenization (i.e. a slayer is a slayer is a slayer)
    - class exclusivity
    - graphical destabilization (B&S is getting a complete engine overhaul, for crying out loud)
    - mundane tasks made more tedious for no reason (e.g. gathering)
    - less-than-meaningful loot drops in dungeons
    - literally selling the solution to a problem (i.e. talent crates)
    - and much, much more! :smile:

    But those are talking points for another time, possibly by others more insightful than I.
  • Thank you everyone for contributing to the discussion. I'm enjoying to read what you all think and to see we all agree on certain points.
    Regarding the following:
    YWLD3DX3WH wrote: »

    Just gonna put this out there, but superior guardian is a terrible example. The bam has to be killed to get the good rewards, and damage at guardians works in the way that the more players there are, the less damage everyone else does.

    I've, as a HO player, given up on doing superior guardians on channel 1 because sometimes it'll reach a point, especially when the timer was shorter, where the bam is just impossible to kill because you have 15-30 people in guardian/twist/frostmetal lowering your own damage without even meaning to and then barely contributing..I just solo my chars on ch3/4 if I feel like doing superior guardians. 100% kill rate so the parcel at least gets sent.

    I agree that it needs work due to it's very specific way of managing large groups, but in the current patch I can't quite think of anything that could come closer to having large groups towards a similar goal. The execution could certainly be improved, but compared to other open world events it seems to be the only one that is focused on co-operation.

    Someone above offered to learn dungeons with new players and I thought it may be good to add myself to the list.
    Feel free to add me if you have questions regarding any of the major systems in the game or need help specifically with priest or a dungeon UP TO Grotto of Lost Souls Hard Mode. I've not touched Bahaar and doubt I will anytime soon.
    Velika Server - Nihil
  • MelyodisMelyodis ✭✭✭
    when better game drops and finally steals the rest of the player base and the next game called AIR fails, then we might get tera in UE4 lol.
  • > @Christin said:
    > I think that really is the problem with so many RPG's. Games like Tera make end game content so tough that people become extremely picky about who they run with. Everyone that gets good in the game wants to be an elitist and demand more and more high tier content that only a select few can run. That causes more and more problems for new and unskilled players.

    Reminds me of this thread actually

    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/29532/so-am-i-just-not-allowed-to-run-or-learn-content/p1

    That exact scenario played out and seems to still do so.
  • I played a lot of wow and I do mean A LOT and the same happens there. I am not even talking about Mythic Raids (hardest content you can do, requires 20 ppl from the same server) even Mythic dungeons which aren't that much harder from a heroic dungeon become a type of power hungry fest.

    In the 1st-2nd week people will run with everything and anything to get gear but after that, people start asking for absurd amounts of gear, equivalent to run something 10x harder. Seems to be a trend in MMORPGs, finding people that are willing to teach and help is quite hard, which in turn turns off the new players.

    As others mentioned about Vanguard/Guardian quests, the first thing that came to my mind when doing those was "Why am I not in a party like in Rift?" As a returning player I am doing those on my Mystic and I can't see anyone's HP so I have to guess heal everyone and anyone that seem to have taken damage, if that wasn't bad enough I look at my contribution and it seems that I am doing a pretty bad job at my contribution % sucks. Which in turn makes my reward crappy as well?? So if I join those and get a Ruby every time what's the point??
  • KrystalineKrystaline ✭✭
    edited April 18
    Reminds me of this thread actually

    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/29532/so-am-i-just-not-allowed-to-run-or-learn-content/p1

    That exact scenario played out and seems to still do so.

    I read through some of that thread and what struck me as an outdated idea was that people should already know their class by the time they hit 65. I'd have agreed with that statement at launch but not as the game stands now. The majority of players aren't running lower level dungeons and the focus on the game anymore is to get to 65 (or now 70) as quickly as possible. Learning your class as a solo player is easy... there generally isn't the opportunity to learn how to play your class as part of a group.

    On my Valkyrie that's been no big deal... I spent early days using dps to level up and my function in dungeons is essentially the same. My rotations might need to be tweaked a bit but there's not much change in how I play.

    Priest is a different story... with a healing class you dps your way through lower level content and heal yourself as needed (and rarely, at that). When you hit cap you're suddenly expected to know how keep a group buffed and alive during a dungeon run without ever having had to use those skills before - all while learning the mechanics of the individual fights. There's a learning curve there that you really don't get the opportunity to practice at lower levels... I've got the muscle memory to hit my dispel because I use that one on myself but my other group skills? Haven't had the need to use 'em so I'm not even sure what their hotkey is unless I quick look at my bars. It'll take a few runs before hitting those skills becomes 2nd nature.

    Where was I going with this? Oh yeah... it's no longer the case in Tera where people have the opportunity to master their class as part of a group before they hit cap. When leveling took forever and low level dungeons were necessary for gear, as tedious as it was I think in the long run it was a lot better for everyone.
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