[PC] We will be entering into maintenance downtime on 10/17 at 8am PDT, and have an expected downtime of 3 hours. For details, please visit the following thread: http://bit.ly/terapcmaintenance

reset scroll prices

135

Comments

  • edited April 30
    Serenade wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    Nah, we're just pointing out more reasons why players start to leave for EU. You realized that this sort of thing is exactly why GF/EU was considered imferior and why peopke left it in droves back in 2014, right?

    In EU, this didn't happen because their Elite (TERA Club) never gave scrolls there. So people comparing the prices to EU and being like "look at how much more generous EU is" are making an irrelevant argument. If EU had been giving out scrolls the same way NA did (and if K-TERA had been doing the same), they would have had much lower prices. The prices are based on the overall supply and economic impact (which is why the original prices, inherited from K-TERA, were so wrong from the start -- they were much, much more rare there than here).

    I realize there are other areas where EU is more generous because their progression model is different, and that there are other local market differences that negatively impact us. But when people start muddying the waters and lumping this into the "see, EU is more generous" bucket (even though the situation is 100% different) it causes the valid points to be lost among the obviously-wrong ones.

    And no one on this forum is asking for actual EU prices. That is a strawman.

    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.

    Serenade wrote: »
    40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite.

    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.

    Serenade wrote: »
    Please, I know you're on the PC and have to represwnt EME in a certain way and can't publically speak ill of them, but surely if this is based on overalm supply, it can't hurt to be more transparent and give us the math used to reach these results.

    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.


    The price of the scrolls is based on the quantity in distribution, but the weighting is likely just based on them setting a price for the most expensive and scaling accordingly. Consider for instance the prices at first was 15k for Eta and scaled down dramatically from there. Here they started at 200 for the top tier, and scaled it down from there. I don't know for a fact that this is how they came up with it, but I think it's the most logical conclusion.

    Anyway, I realize it seems like I'm defending EME here because of the result, but it's only because the situation EME and BHS created means that it has to be this way. The retroactive change to Elite that EME did is really not okay, but by setting the prices like this it mutes the issue to enough a degree that it'll wash over. That's probably about the best they could do in this situation, even if no one will be 100% happy with it.
  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Serenade wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    Nah, we're just pointing out more reasons why players start to leave for EU. You realized that this sort of thing is exactly why GF/EU was considered imferior and why peopke left it in droves back in 2014, right?

    In EU, this didn't happen because their Elite (TERA Club) never gave scrolls there. So people comparing the prices to EU and being like "look at how much more generous EU is" are making an irrelevant argument. If EU had been giving out scrolls the same way NA did (and if K-TERA had been doing the same), they would have had much lower prices. The prices are based on the overall supply and economic impact (which is why the original prices, inherited from K-TERA, were so wrong from the start -- they were much, much more rare there than here).

    I realize there are other areas where EU is more generous because their progression model is different, and that there are other local market differences that negatively impact us. But when people start muddying the waters and lumping this into the "see, EU is more generous" bucket (even though the situation is 100% different) it causes the valid points to be lost among the obviously-wrong ones.

    And no one on this forum is asking for actual EU prices. That is a strawman.

    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.

    Serenade wrote: »
    40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite.

    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.

    Serenade wrote: »
    Please, I know you're on the PC and have to represwnt EME in a certain way and can't publically speak ill of them, but surely if this is based on overalm supply, it can't hurt to be more transparent and give us the math used to reach these results.

    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.


    The price of the scrolls is based on the quantity in distribution, but the weighting is likely just based on them setting a price for the most expensive and scaling accordingly. Consider for instance the prices at first was 15k for Eta and scaled down dramatically from there. Here they started at 200 for the top tier, and scaled it down from there. I don't know for a fact that this is how they came up with it, but I think it's the most logical conclusion.

    Anyway, I realize it seems like I'm defending EME here because of the result, but it's only because the situation EME and BHS created means that it has to be this way. The retroactive change to Elite that EME did is really not okay, but by setting the prices like this it mutes the issue to enough a degree that it'll wash over. That's probably about the best they could do in this situation, even if no one will be 100% happy with it.

    Was not aware opening Elite boxes for years made ourselves exploiters.
  • SerenadeSerenade ✭✭
    edited May 1
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.
  • change the reset scroll by news tokens costume not tradeable.
  • PalochiPalochi ✭✭✭
    edited May 1
    Serenade wrote: »

    No one here is saying they should be rewarded with 10 million gold - that's a strawman. But people want something other than 3 or 15 gold for the lower ones. The issue is that this didn't happen in a vacuum; people can see what other regions did and compare/contrast. If other regions decided to give somewhat proper compensation for reset scrolls and NA decided to go for token amounts, it exacerbates the GF > EME issue.

    No one is getting 1m with these prices. That's practically not possible. It takes ~150 days worth of boxes to get 40k - the equivalent of one KTERA reset scroll; you can save up boxes for all of your elite career and not even approach that number. Even the truly hardcore players who had ~1400 boxes saved up from multiple servers is only getting 500k, and even that's pretty rare.

    Also, I'm one of those people who didn't open their (350+) elite boxes. I'd agree that a different way to compensate those players would be better, but the optics is around reset scrolls since there is a direct comparison with other servers, and we already know that EME isn't going to do this at all.


    Most of my scrolls are the Alpha ones, I would benefit from higher selling prices on them too. Not being "in a vacuum" doesn't matter when we are in a different reality. Wanting the prices to be based on EU's prices (not meaning the same but just based on it as well) is about the same as saying your country's politics should apply to another country with a whole different culture.
    Also your math is as bad as mine, just in opposite ways. 150 boxes = 74k (unless I [filtered] up)
    But I'm alright as long as most people arent making more than 1m gold for no reason. So I guess it could be raised a bit to me, but nowhere near what Im seeing people ask for.


  • SerenadeSerenade ✭✭
    kamizuma wrote: »
    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Okay, that's fair then.
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    Serenade wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Okay, that's fair then.

    ya don't forget that the elite boxes didn't drop the eta and other higher valued scrolls until a few years after they've been dropping alpha/beta ect.
  • kamizuma wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Is it because of strongboxes and vgs?

  • Or by veteran players not using them because they don't run those low dgs?
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Is it because of strongboxes and vgs?

    nah it's because the elite consumable boxes didn't drop the newer scrolls until a few years after they've been dropping the sets of older scrolls. Like there's WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more of alpha/beta than the others in the game.
  • edited May 1
    Serenade wrote: »
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.

    It's not all of one person who said that, just one person in this thread. This is a debate that has been ongoing in Discord and other channels for a long time now. You also mentioned "we're just pointing out more reasons why players start to leave for EU" -- which is again alluding to this comparison of what EU got vs. what we got, even though the situation is wholly different. (You may have meant only in the broader sense, but that was why I specifically brought it up.)

    Serenade wrote: »
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against.

    Because that's the central issue. The fact that the lowest scroll is worth 3 gold is not that important, for the reason you point out now...

    Serenade wrote: »
    Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    Given that they drop from the box in the same way as the others, so most people who were "stocking up" recently will have the full spread, it makes almost no difference if one is worth 3g and the other is worth 200g. They'll be selling all of them anyway, so what matters for that group is the total expected gold to be received. For people who had scrolls for other reasons, they have to consider supply and past rarity/value.

    The literal reason is almost certainly because they were 3g and 15g to start (even when the eta scrolls use to give 15k), so they just rescaled all the rest to be a more narrow curve (with 200g as the max instead of 15k).

    Was not aware opening Elite boxes for years made ourselves exploiters.

    Not exploiters, but abusing a loophole -- a loophole EME and BHS created due to their lack of foresight. That doesn't make it an exploit, but it does mean that they way they handle it has to be different, since all paying customers did not get prior notification and a fair chance.
  • kamizuma wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Is it because of strongboxes and vgs?

    nah it's because the elite consumable boxes didn't drop the newer scrolls until a few years after they've been dropping the sets of older scrolls. Like there's WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more of alpha/beta than the others in the game.

    Oh to be honest I didn't know that, i opened my boxes for a long time but didnt really pay attention to the scrolls and used the ones i needed. I mostly played tera for the leveling up process and had 1 character on each account i would switch back and forth too even though I have 20- slots on most servers and accounts. I played runescape alot so the multiple account thing was natural to me. I only found out you could sell scrolls when i wanted to try the lv 70 patch a week before na and had some scrolls in eu and sold them.
    That's irrelevant though, sorry.
    Thanks for letting me know,that actually makes sense.
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    kamizuma wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Is it because of strongboxes and vgs?

    nah it's because the elite consumable boxes didn't drop the newer scrolls until a few years after they've been dropping the sets of older scrolls. Like there's WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more of alpha/beta than the others in the game.

    Oh to be honest I didn't know that, i opened my boxes for a long time but didnt really pay attention to the scrolls and used the ones i needed. I mostly played tera for the leveling up process and had 1 character on each account i would switch back and forth too even though I have 20- slots on most servers and accounts. I played runescape alot so the multiple account thing was natural to me. I only found out you could sell scrolls when i wanted to try the lv 70 patch a week before na and had some scrolls in eu and sold them.
    That's irrelevant though, sorry.
    Thanks for letting me know,that actually makes sense.

    Yeah.. I remember specifically when the stormcry gear rehaul patch hit, I opened like 900 elite consumable boxes at that time to get enough crafter cures to craft deathwrack+15 items. Those didn't come with eta and stuff haha
  • edited May 1
    kamizuma wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Serenade wrote: »
    No, people are using the EU prices as a basis with comments like "well, I don't think we should have the EU prices, but I think 50% of what they had seems reasonable" -- based on what? The supply structure was completely different here.
    All of 1 person said that, and you've already addressed that argument. Bringing it back up and treating it as some pervailing belief is the definition of a strawman.
    No, it's not "in exchange for years of Elite." That's where this whole thing is wrong. If it were in exchange for years of Elite, then everyone who had Elite all this time would get it fairly. It's in exchange for basically abusing a loophole with Elite Consumable Boxes before the patch date -- again, a loophole no other regions had. People treated it as "compensation" for something they paid for are wrong, because people who also had Elite Consumable Boxes and didn't open them get nothing, therefore they can't call it "compensation." Or else, everyone else will need to be "compensated" for not being compensated.
    This is a tangent. You cropped a sentence out of context to create an argument that you can more easily argue against. Here's a quote of that entire paragraph:
    I was ready to actually defend EME on this until I saw the alpha scroll prices. What kind of event oversupplyed those to make 3 gold justified? I know most long-standing veteran players would get maybe 40k from this, and that's the really long-standing ones. 40k is four hours of vanguard, in exchange for years of elite. You can't tell us this is some rigorous mathematical analysis that led to this.
    The point of the paragraph is to show that even for people with years of elite, the returns on this is paltry - less than a single scroll in kTERA. I've done maths in prior posts to show that almost everyone - lots of elite or not - is getting nearly nothing. Sure, 40k or 80k isn't bad, but how many people actually have that many scrolls to exchange?

    Even the worst offenders here with 1400 boxes from multiple servers are only getting like 400k. The point is that the selling price doesn't make sense, not some argument about this being a direct compensation for elite.
    I think you've missed the fact that I actually am speaking ill of EME, just for a completely different reason. Retroactively changing the contents of Elite and providing an in-game benefit to people who happened to abuse a loophole is wrong. It should apply to everyone or no one. Since it won't apply to everyone, these scrolls need to be worth as little as possible, so that people who paid the same money for Elite as everyone else don't feel in any way screwed by the amount of gold other people will make. Prices like this are about at the threshold where it's not nothing, but it's not so much that people who "got robbed" by the lack of notification will feel all that bitter about it.
    I know you flame the heck out of them in discord, in PMs. That doesn't really help anyone here.

    Let me propose something else. The sum total of all the scrolls is 493 gold, right? Push that up a bit to get 840 (it shouldn't be a huge issue, since even the worst case scenarios aren't getting all that much). We have 7 scrolls, so let's apply the following factors (edit: altered a bit):

    Alpha: 75
    Beta: 95
    Gamma: 110
    Delta: 120
    Epsilon: 130
    Zeta: 155
    Etc: 165

    Still balanced, still very conservative and tiny, but better optics and much more fair to the playerbase. Which leads to my question again - why is alpha worth only 3 gold and beta only 15, when they drop off the box in the same way as the others?

    because the amount of alpha/beta scrolls compared to the others in the game vary by huge orders of magnitude.

    Is it because of strongboxes and vgs?

    nah it's because the elite consumable boxes didn't drop the newer scrolls until a few years after they've been dropping the sets of older scrolls. Like there's WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY more of alpha/beta than the others in the game.

    Oh to be honest I didn't know that, i opened my boxes for a long time but didnt really pay attention to the scrolls and used the ones i needed. I mostly played tera for the leveling up process and had 1 character on each account i would switch back and forth too even though I have 20- slots on most servers and accounts. I played runescape alot so the multiple account thing was natural to me. I only found out you could sell scrolls when i wanted to try the lv 70 patch a week before na and had some scrolls in eu and sold them.
    That's irrelevant though, sorry.
    Thanks for letting me know,that actually makes sense.

    Yeah.. I remember specifically when the stormcry gear rehaul patch hit, I opened like 900 elite consumable boxes at that time to get enough crafter cures to craft deathwrack+15 items. Those didn't come with eta and stuff haha

    They should have at least kept the dissasemble leveling gear to feedstock option. Also you probably made alot off of the +15s
Sign In or Register to comment.