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Give Shield Counter frontal defense.

It'd be fair if you removed the 50% damage reduction during the skill and added frontal defense.

Please make it happen BHS, thanks <3

Comments

  • ...as with the other thread, why? But honestly with more head scratching this time.

    Firstly, counter is such an incredibly short animation (and cancelable) that I don't really see how this would achieve anything.

    Secondly, 50% less damage taken is amazing and lets Lancers facetank some things that are supposed to oneshot if they're careful enough, and still causes a little damage to bleed through in normal usage (since Lancer has always been about risk vs reward when doing damage, attacking obviously exposes you to receiving damage and that's kinda the whole point of the class).

    Thirdly...why don't you just play Brawler at that point? Personally even frontal block on Onslaught feels unnecessary, and I hated the removal of the 50% less damage taken perk it had before. Not saying I don't like having block on Onslaught, just that it doesn't feel like it needs to be there.

    I'm not sure how any of this adds up to "fair".
  • ...as with the other thread, why? But honestly with more head scratching this time.

    Firstly, counter is such an incredibly short animation (and cancelable) that I don't really see how this would achieve anything.

    Secondly, 50% less damage taken is amazing and lets Lancers facetank some things that are supposed to oneshot if they're careful enough, and still causes a little damage to bleed through in normal usage (since Lancer has always been about risk vs reward when doing damage, attacking obviously exposes you to receiving damage and that's kinda the whole point of the class).

    Thirdly...why don't you just play Brawler at that point? Personally even frontal block on Onslaught feels unnecessary, and I hated the removal of the 50% less damage taken perk it had before. Not saying I don't like having block on Onslaught, just that it doesn't feel like it needs to be there.

    I'm not sure how any of this adds up to "fair".

    If it's an incredibly short animation, wouldn't you say that 50% less damage taken is also unnecessary? How can you use shield counter to facetank something that one shots if you need to block first to use it? If i want to facetank something that usually oneshots i would just pop iron will if divine protection is on cd from a oneshot mech.

    They added frontal defense to lancer because of brawler didn't they? Heck i remember wallop having the same frontal defense effect as brawler until they changed it to blue after Apex and removed onslaught 50% damage reduction to add frontal defense to it to make it fair, so why can't they do the same for shield counter at this point? I would really like to chain my frontal defense skills, especially when fighting Murderwings/Mournwings.

    Before onslaught got frontal defense i remember i used to block cancel it a lot when a big damaging attack or a stunning/Dot attack was coming. Now i don't find myself block canceling that much except for unblockable attacks. So yeah, the frontal defense effect on onslaught is a lot better for me.
    Heck onslaught gives me HTL stacks if i time it correctly and shield counter damage stacks as well.
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    Let's just add frontal block to all Lancer skills, and rename the class Lawler.
  • MythologiqueMythologique ✭✭
    edited June 6
    ...as with the other thread, why? But honestly with more head scratching this time.

    Firstly, counter is such an incredibly short animation (and cancelable) that I don't really see how this would achieve anything.

    Secondly, 50% less damage taken is amazing and lets Lancers facetank some things that are supposed to oneshot if they're careful enough, and still causes a little damage to bleed through in normal usage (since Lancer has always been about risk vs reward when doing damage, attacking obviously exposes you to receiving damage and that's kinda the whole point of the class).

    Thirdly...why don't you just play Brawler at that point? Personally even frontal block on Onslaught feels unnecessary, and I hated the removal of the 50% less damage taken perk it had before. Not saying I don't like having block on Onslaught, just that it doesn't feel like it needs to be there.

    I'm not sure how any of this adds up to "fair".

    If it's an incredibly short animation, wouldn't you say that 50% less damage taken is also unnecessary? How can you use shield counter to facetank something that one shots if you need to block first to use it? If i want to facetank something that usually oneshots i would just pop iron will if divine protection is on cd from a oneshot mech.

    No, because there can still be scenarios where this effect is useful. After the Onslaught change it was the most effective way to facetank an RKNM S-bomb, and I used to lean heavily on it during the last boss of RMHM. I could also argue that since you need to block first to use counter, then why would counter need its own block effect? On top of that, IW is not going to stop any amount of oneshotting unless it's by a very small margin.
    They added frontal defense to lancer because of brawler didn't they? Heck i remember wallop having the same frontal defense effect as brawler until they changed it to blue after Apex and removed onslaught 50% damage reduction to add frontal defense to it to make it fair, so why can't they do the same for shield counter at this point? I would really like to chain my frontal defense skills, especially when fighting Murderwings/Mournwings.

    Before onslaught got frontal defense i remember i used to block cancel it a lot when a big damaging attack or a stunning/Dot attack was coming. Now i don't find myself block canceling that much except for unblockable attacks. So yeah, the frontal defense effect on onslaught is a lot better for me.
    Heck onslaught gives me HTL stacks if i time it correctly and shield counter damage stacks as well.

    They did, and it was the one skill that truly needed it as Wallop was kinda suicidal without it especially as bosses got progressively faster and faster with smaller margins for error, and also since Wallop had no other defensive qualities. And as I mentioned, I wasn't against Onslaught gaining a frontal block, just that it sacrificed the damage reduction for it (while iirc Warriors still have Torrent which does both).

    It's a matter of diversity since all three tanks are rapidly becoming directly interchangeable. What made a Brawler unique is completely irrelevant because it's bleeding into everyone else's skill sets, and features from other classes are being sacrificed to accommodate the same [filtered] that everyone else has. Just take a look at the DPS roster nowadays - what's really the difference between a Warrior, a Berserker, an Archer, a Gunner, a Slayer or a Reaper? They all have basically the exact same short duration super high burst DPS 'mode' that completely changes the playstyle while it's active - you could go so far as to say the Warrior edge went from being a key and unique mechanic to being absolutely irrelevant as edge builds and falls so damn quickly that you don't even have to think about it. Is there much point to playing anything other than whatever is the current meta? Do we actually want Lancers to become a passive tank like Brawlers are? Do we want Brawlers and Warriors to get a clone of Adrenaline Rush?

    If there's anything at all I want to see added to counter, it's more chains out of the skill. I found myself automatically trying to chain counter into Lockdown after the patch, and was sorely disappointed to find that basically none of the juicy new skill chains we got applied to counter.

    EDIT: I realise that Warriors actually already have a passive version of arush, it's called Traverse Cut.
  • PoniloverPonilover ✭✭✭
    The thing with shield counter is that it doesn't provide superarmor like slayer's ww or kds, cuz who cares about skill description these days anyway.
    Not many end game bosses have blockable kd or stagger attacks anymore, but omg it just pisses me off when the candlestick in LK wrecks my lancer's face cuz it decided to do the *10 perfblocks for the brawler* attack twice in a row and i just happened to use shield counter too soon.

  • ...as with the other thread, why? But honestly with more head scratching this time.

    Firstly, counter is such an incredibly short animation (and cancelable) that I don't really see how this would achieve anything.

    Secondly, 50% less damage taken is amazing and lets Lancers facetank some things that are supposed to oneshot if they're careful enough, and still causes a little damage to bleed through in normal usage (since Lancer has always been about risk vs reward when doing damage, attacking obviously exposes you to receiving damage and that's kinda the whole point of the class).

    Thirdly...why don't you just play Brawler at that point? Personally even frontal block on Onslaught feels unnecessary, and I hated the removal of the 50% less damage taken perk it had before. Not saying I don't like having block on Onslaught, just that it doesn't feel like it needs to be there.

    I'm not sure how any of this adds up to "fair".

    If it's an incredibly short animation, wouldn't you say that 50% less damage taken is also unnecessary? How can you use shield counter to facetank something that one shots if you need to block first to use it? If i want to facetank something that usually oneshots i would just pop iron will if divine protection is on cd from a oneshot mech.

    No, because there can still be scenarios where this effect is useful. After the Onslaught change it was the most effective way to facetank an RKNM S-bomb, and I used to lean heavily on it during the last boss of RMHM. I could also argue that since you need to block first to use counter, then why would counter need its own block effect? On top of that, IW is not going to stop any amount of oneshotting unless it's by a very small margin.

    Sure, back then you could facetank S-Bomb with onslaught and survive but things have changed. Before RKN nerf you could just facetank S-Bomb with iron will and after RKN nerf i don't think you even need iron will to facetank it anymore if your endurance is high enough. Shield counter would need it's own block effect for various things, could chain frontal defense effects, could gain HTL stacks and more shield counter dmg if one of those bosses is going to do a barrage of attacks. You know antaroth's abyss first boss? If shield counter had frontal defense effect we wouldn't need to worry about getting KD'd during shield counter and use it whenever we want when fighting that boss. I would trade 50% dmg reduction for frontal defense anytime of the day. Could also keep the dmg reduction like warrior's torrent of blows that has frontal defense and dmg reduction.

    I know this is a stupid attempt and it's an idea that would never reach their ears, but i could still try.... how awesome it'd be the day i'm able to kill 11-12 Murderwings on lancer cuz man those BAMs like paralyzing you and this is where shield counter frontal defense effect would come in handy xD
  • AraseoAraseo ✭✭
    I’ve recently started playing Lancer, and I definitely agree that shield counter SHOULD have frontal defense. Not because Brawler has it, but rather because it would make perfect sense due to the animations. Frontal defense for wallop and onslaught animations makes sense because of how the shield is being used for both offense and defense simultaneously. The same thing could be said for shield counter animation. The first hit is literally blocking thumping the shield at the target, and the second hit is blocking while jab thrusting the lance.
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 19
    I love the shield counter 50% dmg reduction, I'll be forever mad they put frontal defense on onslaught
    Pls don't ask for this, every good tank would prefer it the way it is. It's really great for facetanking things.
  • AraseoAraseo ✭✭
    While I respect your opinion, and everyone else’s over the matter, I must say that facetanking nowadays is kinda meh with all the changes done to Tera over the past year or two. I would agree that if not frontal defense, then at least give shield counter 100% stagger/KD resist. I think that would satisfy both sides to this debate...I hope xD
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