New Gear System (KTera)

24

Comments

  • ArydAryd ✭✭

    The problem I find is the difference in time. It would have made a lot more sense to drop level 70, with leveling and level 70 dungeons, with level 70 gear... An expansion on the current game. Instead we seem to be getting things in stages, which basically means there are many more changes to come. That's sort of the problem as well, as this is the 3rd major overhaul to gearing, along with a handful of minor ones, to the point where even putting in an "express lane" (Gear and Glyphs + Meren's Questlines to Apex once reaching level 65) still isn't enough for most players to reach the end game content, and then to lock them out even further seems redundant.

    Then you add the Crit changes with the removal of crystals, and now weapon stats are going to literally make or break your class. If a weapon doesn't roll with perfect stats, you lose. This is why we have the current gear system in the first place.

    You can argue cookie cutter build vs freestyle variations, but you're still going to have cookie cutter builds, it's inevitable. It's an MMO, there will be cookie cutters.

    The only plausible solution that I can see, is if HO+3 is better the the new superior quality gear, and the only upgrade is legendary. Even then, non-HO+3 players will still want to run legendary viable content and hope to get a "mega" upgrade. It's quite possibly the worst idea they've ever had, and I'm including Talismans.

  • FainallFainall ✭✭

    One of the redeeming features of Tera is gear that doesn't break. If they implement this, it will be my last day on this game. I have played too many games with this model, and most of those games are gone. It tends to be a game breaker in the end. I've been working for 13 months to try to get to HO and I am still not there. There is no way I will play a game where all the hard work can be lost with the roll of RNG again.

  • edited July 23

    @Fainall said:
    One of the redeeming features of Tera is gear that doesn't break. If they implement this, it will be my last day on this game. I have played too many games with this model, and most of those games are gone. It tends to be a game breaker in the end. I've been working for 13 months to try to get to HO and I am still not there. There is no way I will play a game where all the hard work can be lost with the roll of RNG again.

    I guess I need a bit more information about how the new system works. It sounds like the gear isn't destroyed, but enters some sort of broken status that needs an item to repair it? If you repair it, does it retain its enchantment level? Basically it sounds like a failure "penalty" without actually losing any progress... which is still very annoying, but it doesn't sound like it "levels down" or gets destroyed (haunting memories of old MMOs...).

    (Still, I agree that this doesn't seem like it is needed or beneficial, even if it's "not as bad.")

  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:

    @Fainall said:
    One of the redeeming features of Tera is gear that doesn't break. If they implement this, it will be my last day on this game. I have played too many games with this model, and most of those games are gone. It tends to be a game breaker in the end. I've been working for 13 months to try to get to HO and I am still not there. There is no way I will play a game where all the hard work can be lost with the roll of RNG again.

    I guess I need a bit more information about how the new system works. It sounds like the gear isn't destroyed, but enters some sort of broken status that needs an item to repair it? If you repair it, does it retain its enchantment level? Basically it sounds like a failure "penalty" without actually losing any progress... which is still very annoying, but it doesn't sound like it "levels down" or gets destroyed (haunting memories of old MMOs...).

    (Still, I agree that this doesn't seem like it is needed or beneficial, even if it's "not as bad.")

    It's most likely something similar to Closers gear contamination.
    Which was already removed from the game.

  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is the same as in PvP. They just ported the system to PvE

    You fail, you break your gear, no progress lost, just need to spend MORE to fix it, which is totally unfair. and againg with the +15 BS?? i thought they learned from their mistake with Awakening...

  • XandervbXandervb ✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:

    @Fainall said:
    One of the redeeming features of Tera is gear that doesn't break. If they implement this, it will be my last day on this game. I have played too many games with this model, and most of those games are gone. It tends to be a game breaker in the end. I've been working for 13 months to try to get to HO and I am still not there. There is no way I will play a game where all the hard work can be lost with the roll of RNG again.

    I guess I need a bit more information about how the new system works. It sounds like the gear isn't destroyed, but enters some sort of broken status that needs an item to repair it? If you repair it, does it retain its enchantment level? Basically it sounds like a failure "penalty" without actually losing any progress... which is still very annoying, but it doesn't sound like it "levels down" or gets destroyed (haunting memories of old MMOs...).

    (Still, I agree that this doesn't seem like it is needed or beneficial, even if it's "not as bad.")

    They just need to implement some sort of Repair Hammers in the cash shop and then Tera will be truly mobile-ready.

  • Ouch, what an asinine system.
    If I said anything else about the previous points, I'd be reiterating what was already mentioned in this thread (issues with gear breaking/repairing causing perpetual material shortage, issues with powercreep, issues with design, issues with not-asking-for-player-input-before-dropping-massive-overhauls, issues with peoples' existing HO+3 work flushed down the drain, issues with no double CDR/aspeed, RNG gear rolls) so let's bring a new topic into the spotlight:
    Crystals.
    We all use them, and there is basically one build for them depending on your class. Seems pretty simple, right?
    Not so; a critical element of the game involves chasing the backs of bosses to do maximum DPS. With the current overhaul, total crit power will be a pitiful 2 + 1.42 (nostrum) + whatever healer buffs (DC/Enhanced ToW), rather than 8 from the back. With the requirement of hitting the boss's back removed, this removes what I consider a pretty critical skill aspect of the game: repositioning. Why bother repositioning? Sure, you get the extra crit rate direction modifier (1.6) but when your crit power is only 3.42, is there even a point? Will maximizing your backtime even matter with the new gear? Maybe it's better to just continue smashing from the side when the boss walks around rather than actively try to get behind it.
    Regardless, the developers themselves have said this is intended to bridge the skill gap between new and veteran players, so I don't even know who believes they intend otherwise. Bonus: their promises of "The DPS increase based on player’s skill level will still exist" based on the gear tooltips, is pretty nonexistent: there are enraged rolls on the gear, but no back rolls whatsoever.
    I personally believe this is just the cherry atop an absolutely staggering litany of issues with this patch, and I truly hope that BHS will open their eyes and recant this.
    I have hope. At least the Advancement/Opt system, boringly grindy as it is, doesn't come with the newfound frustrations this new system brings.
    I don't know what I'll do if this comes to pass. I've been a loyal player of this game for almost 5 years now, and this system really is forcing me to speak up in defense of this game and its veterans.

    TL;DR: system is an enormous crock of garbage that needs to burn in hell for eternity.

  • edited July 24

    @Xandervb said:

    They just need to implement some sort of Repair Hammers in the cash shop and then Tera will be truly mobile-ready.

    You say that but honest to god it'd surprise me more if this didn't happen. :/

    That being said, I won't claim to have all the answers on how to keep a niche F2P game alive. The dream is obviously 100% F2P with an only-cosmetic cash shop but I don't know if that's truly feasible as a game grows more niche. Still, I don't like the continuing trend...

  • EllexemEllexem ✭✭✭

    @NeoFrost said:
    Regardless, the developers themselves have said this is intended to bridge the skill gap between new and veteran players, so I don't even know who believes they intend otherwise. Bonus: their promises of "The DPS increase based on player’s skill level will still exist" based on the gear tooltips, is pretty nonexistent: there are enraged rolls on the gear, but no back rolls whatsoever.

    Crit factor is still a thing though. You still seem to have the higher chance to crit from the back. It might not be as big of a difference any longer, but it still is a difference in how often you crit. And, to be perfectly honest, I find this a perfectly acceptable sacrifice for the sake of trying to do something about the retention and replacement problem that TERA seems to be struggling with.

    More importantly, their stated goal comes across with a strong vibe of, "Not enough people are even trying our new content." And if this helps with that then it seems like it would be a net positive for that at least.

    As an actual skill angle, you also have that now things will be broken apart into physical and magical attack aspects, and with both being to some degree part of each skill. Your defense (or resist factor, as it's apparently called in the dev note translation) will be different to the two types. Presumably they'll also have it so that mobs will have differences there, to go with how they have the whole plate (high physical, low magical), leather (medium both), and cloth (low physical, high magical) differences in player armor.

    This then builds on how each skill gets two coefficient factors for how much magical and physical amplification will benefit it, which compounds your gear choices. This could mean that, depending on your gear, you no longer will have any kind of constant rotation or priority system in place, needing to adapt your damage rotation to take advantage of the mob resistances. Focus more on magical or physical amplified attacks depending on mob.

    That could be an even bigger skill factor than just being able to chase the back consistently while keeping to your power links, chains or priorities. (Admittedly, this is more conjecture than anything, since they didn't actually outright state this, but it seems a possible extrapolation of what they did provide. Though it might again not be a big enough difference to truly matter, since you still seem to have a large base damage factor.)

    Still not a fan of this new gear scheme, since it very much seems to be a grab-bag of worst features of several systems, but the actual damage system seems like it could have some potential to make things more interesting. Though I'll readily grant that I don't expect Krafton-Bluehole to actually take advantage of that potential.

  • ArydAryd ✭✭

    @Ellexem said:
    Crit factor is still a thing though. You still seem to have the higher chance to crit from the back. It might not be as big of a difference any longer, but it still is a difference in how often you crit. And, to be perfectly honest, I find this a perfectly acceptable sacrifice for the sake of trying to do something about the retention and replacement problem that TERA seems to be struggling with.

    More importantly, their stated goal comes across with a strong vibe of, "Not enough people are even trying our new content." And if this helps with that then it seems like it would be a net positive for that at least.

    As an actual skill angle, you also have that now things will be broken apart into physical and magical attack aspects, and with both being to some degree part of each skill. Your defense (or resist factor, as it's apparently called in the dev note translation) will be different to the two types. Presumably they'll also have it so that mobs will have differences there, to go with how they have the whole plate (high physical, low magical), leather (medium both), and cloth (low physical, high magical) differences in player armor.

    This then builds on how each skill gets two coefficient factors for how much magical and physical amplification will benefit it, which compounds your gear choices. This could mean that, depending on your gear, you no longer will have any kind of constant rotation or priority system in place, needing to adapt your damage rotation to take advantage of the mob resistances. Focus more on magical or physical amplified attacks depending on mob.

    That could be an even bigger skill factor than just being able to chase the back consistently while keeping to your power links, chains or priorities. (Admittedly, this is more conjecture than anything, since they didn't actually outright state this, but it seems a possible extrapolation of what they did provide. Though it might again not be a big enough difference to truly matter, since you still seem to have a large base damage factor.)

    Still not a fan of this new gear scheme, since it very much seems to be a grab-bag of worst features of several systems, but the actual damage system seems like it could have some potential to make things more interesting. Though I'll readily grant that I don't expect Krafton-Bluehole to actually take advantage of that potential.

    I've been on and off Tera for years now, been on both NA and EU. I have tons of friends in the MMO genre, and when I talk to them about Tera, larger problems come to conversation.

    A large problem with retention isn't actually difficulty level, but complexity level. The game is simply too complex to understand out of the gate; be that mechanics, gear rolls, talents, glyphs, skills, powerlinks, crystals, consumables, quests, professions, the list goes on and on and on. The only mistake new players can make with gear in current patch are having the wrong rolls on their gear, but it's pretty hard to do since the ones in yellow are highlighted as "better". Take that, and add some of the attitudes you come across in IM, and you get a pretty poor retention rate. Adding another tier of gear is fine, but splitting defense into 2 categories so now you'll need high magic resist for some dungeons and high physical for others (I said dungeons, but I didn't want to put too fine a point on it here, but it's actually different bosses), complicating another aspect of the game, and giving us even more mechanics to learn.

    Another big concern was deaths, deaths are much much much more severe in Tera than in any other MMO, and the kicker, you don't regen health out of combat, so here you are, a level 45 roaming through an area, and randomly die, and there's just nothing, no message (as to what killed you so you can possibly avoid it), go back to town and try again I guess. It's easy for veterans to say "don't die, bring health pots" etc, but to new players the game is extremely harsh in that sense.

    If anything, this will cause the more casual players to skip the gearing process, which means even less people will be running new content. How is that good for the game's longevity? We've been down the road of +15 Masterwork Enchantments, we've seen what happens when undergeared tanks try to hold aggro from overgeared DPS without aggro crystals, we've seen all of this before, and yet we're going to plow right back into it?

    I say BHS cuts this whole idea, brings HO+6 in, (HO+4 enchantable at 68), add another tier to blighted gear, and call it done. People have spent actual money selling EMP, or buying keys to get their gear where it is today, and then you want them to just throw it in the dirt? DID WE LEARN NOTHING?!?!?!!? Ugh....

    TL;DR- Forget Area 51, BHS needs a tailgate party.

  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:
    @Xandervb said:

    They just need to implement some sort of Repair Hammers in the cash shop and then Tera will be truly mobile-ready.

    You say that but honest to god it'd surprise me more if this didn't happen. :/

    That being said, I won't claim to have all the answers on how to keep a niche F2P game alive. The dream is obviously 100% F2P with an only-cosmetic cash shop but I don't know if that's truly feasible as a game grows more niche. Still, I don't like the continuing trend...

    I do not know either.
    However, treating players like walking credit cards isn't the answer.
    Companies can use whatever pretty excuse they'd like, loot boxes are nothing more than gambling.
    It's like playing at a casino, where we can spend $100 and walk away with absolutely nothing to show for it.
    We're not even aware of the success percentages.
    How is that fun or even fair?

    Imagine walking into a clothing store and instead of directly purchasing the clothing you'd like, you have to purchase a loot box.
    Where you can get the clothing you'd like at a 1% chance or a piece of tissue fabric at a 99% chance.

    As a side note.
    When players complain about something, means they're worried where that might lead us in the future.
    TERA started with the crit power mounts and now we have the partner system.
    Micro-transactions and loot boxes in general didn't start as they are today either.
    Look how they are now.
    Should we wait until we have another Electronic Arts before complaining?

  • BOBBYYYYBOBBYYYY ✭✭

    why not test this major change with playerbase before releasing i don't get it...

  • @Ellexem said:
    -snip-

    You definitely make some good points, but you also noted the most worrying aspect: that they likely won't take full advantage of their new system. At the same time, it can be a bit of a catch-22: they can add additional complexity with this system that may appeal to veteran players, but at the same time, it further alienates new players (with a system even more complex than the old crystals)? Yet ostensibly, the system is intended to allow newer players to catch up? What's most likely is that they'll just make some garbage that everyone hates.

    I think the crux of the issues is that regardless of the our potentially differing opinions on the skill aspect, it's pretty unambiguous that this system is garbage.

    @BOBBYYYY said:
    why not test this major change with playerbase before releasing i don't get it...

    Because they learned their lesson with Talismans. You drop a new system to the players on a test server, and they give you scathing reviews: they gain momentum for their wrath. You drop it directly to the live servers with no warning, and you have an initial backlash that gradually fades as people grow fatalistic regarding the outcome. That's why we can't shut up about this, because silence will eventually be regarded as compliance.

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