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With regards to the new gear change

2

Comments

  • TJKatTJKat ✭✭✭

    My favourite part of the new gear explanation was when the dev said, "When we first introduced Guardian gear, we reorganized the gear system in order to simplify the enchanting process and minimize grinding, thus improving the players’ access to gear."

    ...after which they proceeded to make it as grindy as possible. There's nothing wrong with the current gearing system, the problem is in it's implementation. They didn't HAVE to make gearing so grindy, but they did anyway, which is in direct contradiction of what they're saying. As far as I'm concerned, that statement alone is enough to ruin the credibility of any statements of good intent from the dev, and fully expect this new gear system to be more grindy and punishing than any we've seen previously. Working as intended.

  • EllexemEllexem ✭✭✭

    The part that we shouldn't forgot though is that the existing gear both stays viable for a good chunk (even if it's missing out the potential for higher damage spikes, if I'm understanding the comments about not adjusting for physical and magic values) and also is needed for the very best gear. (You need HO to make that Mythic item.)

    They do have that overlap table in the dev note, so it's not like you need to just drop your existing gear and rush over to the new gear right away. You can still stay viable with what you already have and keep using those rolls that you need.

    Depending on enchanting level and your luck with the RNG, you might even end up doing yourself a great disservice if you do any rushed switch over. The days of a new item not even being an upgrade right away seem to be truly back. :/

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19

    @Mythologique said:

    @clfarron4 said:

    @sanj66 said:

    @clfarron4 said:
    sanj66 raises one brilliant point, in that the main tank class basically gets screwed over and several of the DPS classes get the same too.

    Now let's add in the second one related to gear rolls: There is no choosing what roll you want with the new gear. The optional rolls are completely RNG with no way to change them.

    Yup, the only way to get gear with "perfect" rolls is to keep on going into the new dungeon for gear drops until RNJesus drops one with perfect rolls and pray that you are the one that rolls on it.

    you forgot to add and hope its your class gear, as it drops a random class gear piece with random rolls that you have to hope you get, this is gonna bring back the problem of people rolling on gear to dismantle for fodder, i.e. making it harder for some people to gear as if you join an ims or lfg party there is no guarantee these people will let you have the gear to begin with even if they dont need it to wear as they may need it for enchanting mats. all in all its a horrible not well thought of system.

    Oh don't remind me of that. Losing Warrior Swords that I needed to people dismantling for feedstock gave me nightmares back in the day. Well, if they remember to keep it class locked, then weapon drops are safe.

    Funnily enough, Seraph was on stream last night explaining v84 - v86 for us, so people got to ask someone with first hand experience of the system. So, this notice is late. Happy Days.

    I just remembered doing DFNM some 20 or 30odd times before I finally got a pair of gloves. Same story with AINM, only some people had it even worse - I think a friend of mine (Priest) did something like 50 runs before finally she got the healing gloves.

    That was "fun".

    I see your friend's 50 times and raise them 100+ across multiple characters, only for:

    • the desired item drops, but only won the roll because everyone else passed
    • I was playing a character that couldn't use the item
    • smartboxes weren't a thing yet, so that meant I couldn't save it for the character that needed it.

    More to the point of the actual thread itself, for elin's sake, all BHS had to do to update the endgame gearing process and lessen people's worries was to remove the enchantment RNG. I get the mats, I get the gold, I upgrade my equipment. That should be the end of it.

    A g--damn simple-as-p--s solution to a "complex" problem and BHS refuses to use it.

    B-lls to this. I'm going back to (insert game here that doesn't pull the same bollocks TERA does).

    Aside: This new formatting system sucks.

  • There was a stream about it yesterday, featuring Seraphinush. There may be a synopsis coming, but that depends on someone sitting down and digesting all of it into smaller clips for another video hosting platform.

    Hey fren! I don't post much on the forums, but I did compile the informational portion of the stream into a youtube video with timestamps for the different patch highlights : D

    Seraph has been incredibly helpful in translating notes and providing us info and I hope I can do more of these patch updates with him in the future :D

  • kori83kori83 ✭✭
    edited August 19

    @Ellexem said:
    The part that we shouldn't forgot though is that the existing gear both stays viable for a good chunk (even if it's missing out the potential for higher damage spikes, if I'm understanding the comments about not adjusting for physical and magic values) and also is needed for the very best gear. (You need HO to make that Mythic item.)

    They do have that overlap table in the dev note, so it's not like you need to just drop your existing gear and rush over to the new gear right away. You can still stay viable with what you already have and keep using those rolls that you need.

    Depending on enchanting level and your luck with the RNG, you might even end up doing yourself a great disservice if you do any rushed switch over. The days of a new item not even being an upgrade right away seem to be truly back. :/

    I don't ever plan on being BIS.
    Does this mean I can keep using my Stormcry +7?

    What if I try to upgrade my Stormcry to +8? Will some stupid message come up saying I have to switch over to New Gear?

    Cuz if it does, I'm done with Tera.

  • EllexemEllexem ✭✭✭

    @kori83 said:
    I don't ever plan on being BIS.
    Does this mean I can keep using my Stormcry +7?

    Depends mostly on what dungeons you want to run. They seem to keep going for 453, 456 or higher for their new level 66+ ones.

    The table from the linked dev note:
    Uncommon +0 -- Same level as Stormcry +0
    Uncommon +10 -- Same level as Stormcry +7
    Rare +0 -- Same level as Stormcry +6
    Rare +10 -- A little higher than Heroic Oath +3
    Legendary +0 -- Similar to Heroic Oath +0
    Legendary +10 -- Higher than Heroic Oath +3

    What if I try to upgrade my Stormcry to +8? Will some stupid message come up saying I have to switch over to New Gear?

    You can keep upgrading your existing gear all the way to HO without any message to change, as far as I understand it. (You even need to do that if you do want that Mythic BiS gear, apparently.)

  • ArydAryd ✭✭

    @sanj66 said:
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/32181/dev-note-upcoming-gear-update-background

    Even after this thread it still does not explain a few issues. the biggest outlying issue is why are they nerfing cdr for tanks/dps classes, with the removal of rerollable bottom line stats you lose 7.2% cdr, while this may not affect specific classes as actually quite a few classes can roll double enrage lines right now and be unaffected this severely gimps warriors and lancers, reapers do get affected but they were already a higher dps class that everyone else. this change however hard nerfs warriors and lancers, warriors need cdr to keep up dps by popping deadly gamble off cd and to smoothen out their rotation on the whole, similar with lancers to align their party buffs up with enrage phases. why all the need to remove cdr all of a sudden and why not add it back to the top line? like a 14.4% line instead of a 7.2% cdr line, and its not that far fetched, healers get a 26.3% cdr top line for god knows what reason. a huge part of the NA tera community play both these classes and from being in ldfg discords, to guild discords i can tell you this seemingly lack of thought or hard nerf has discouraged a lot of people from continuing to play the game and migrate to another game as it not only makes these classes clunky to play but knocks down all the way down to the bottom of their respective class roll.

    I for one feel this new update was not properly thought out and all the excuses for saying it makes gearing easier and bridges the gap between new and veteran players is false, the amount of grind to get gear is going to be worse i.e. new players can get discouraged faster. not to mention a new player would grab any gear they get and think they will get accepted no matter the fixed rolls on it as they can be quite useless, while a vet would try to get the best rolls they can get before trying to enchant. the other issue is why make the bottom line stats non rerollable this is a huge step backwards and screams "false" content for the lack of actual content, as in the main content is to grind for gear with the best rolls on it. the other issue is if you dont want to make people's existing gear useless and devaluate the time they spent on it why was a patch released where it does exavtly that? do they really expect people to stick around until they make this retool or rather if they ever release this retool. i reiterate this patch seems to not be thought out at all from a developmental stand point and i can say from interacting with a lot of the endgame players does seem like the doom of tera.

    It would be nice if you all can put these questions forward to them and see what response we get, why the nerfing of specific classes by removing the ability to roll double cdr, why not add to the top line aka 14.4% as healers get 26.3%? why do they think this bridges the gap between new and old players given the state of the gear? why are lines non rerollable? and lastly why drop half a patch as they claim with no eta or info on the other half if there truly is another half?

    I'm not too sure whether it's been covered or not, but the topic you linked didn't alleviate any concerns I had about the new system. First and foremost, the answer they are looking for isn't within their proposal; bridging the gap between new, and returning players, to high tier veteran players; in fact, it makes it larger. To elaborate a bit; Veteran players already have HO +3, meaning (as per their table) equal to Legendary gear enchanted to +10, and as far as not "being a new tier of gear", the new gear can be enchanted to +15; and there was something about using HO gear to craft the new gear; and again, magic and physical stuff, would mean you could end up crafting a magic attack weapon on your warrior, and don't think it wouldn't happen.

    All that being said, then take into account the large scale task of reaching level 68 before getting access to this gear. It complicates gear choices. Is it better for me to use this or this, depending on the fight, and a whole level of mechanics above what we already have; making it absolutely ridiculous. (A high Magic Defence tank takes no damage on certain fights, but gets one hit by melee on others).

    All of this, added to the larger "can't choose your weapon rolls" problem, stacked with no crystals makes things even more complicated than it needs to be.

    Honestly, the solution is to reduce the enchanting costs, but increase the enchanting success rate; (for example) Frostmetal, since the change to boost through Apex, now, with max Item XP, gets a 100% success rate; Stormcry, up to +7, gets a 60% with max Item XP, and +8, +9, and upgrade to HO, get 35% chance. I don't really have an idea about numbers, but you could definitely remove the diamonds from Stormcry enchanting altogether, and give Daylight>Entropy levels of Accessories a 100% success rate as well, and then Entropy>Ethereal 50%. This would alleviate the strain and cost of enchanting to higher tiers for most players, moving them into the HO enchanting, and the new jewelry sets faster, the problem then becomes how much and how far BH can keep upping the levels of gear/content; I remember when moving from Daylight to Entropy was supposed to be a grind, and a long one, but it shouldn't be anymore, but it is. That's the disconnect. I know they are adding the enchanting cost changes with the new gear, but I think one could go without the other if done properly.

  • edited August 20
    • the developer greatly reduced the cost of enchanting the Frostmetal/Stormcry/Oath.
    • new equipment drops in the open world from mobs / bam to your class
    • new equipment is not tied to the player during the drop and it can be sold or bought at auction.
    • in the update, the emphasis is on grind in the open world, not dungeon
    • random rolls on new equipment do not give a tangible boost (cards give a lot more).
  • ArydAryd ✭✭

    @D6EWDD7NR4 said:

    • the developer greatly reduced the cost of enchanting the Frostmetal/Stormcry/Oath. (but not the success rate, and therefore, still RNG)
    • new equipment drops in the open world from mobs / bam to your class (we're aware, and there are many issues tied to the new gear/old gear conundrum)
    • new equipment is not tied to the player during the drop and it can be sold or bought at auction. (cool, even more reasons for people to roll on it when they don't need it)
    • in the update, the emphasis is on grind in the open world, not dungeon (except the best of the new gear is only available in dungeons)
    • random rolls on new equipment do not give a tangible boost (cards give a lot more). (No "tangible" boost? Why even have it as gear then, also, this seems factually wrong, as it's enchantable up to +15, and as stated by the developer, +10 rare is slightly better than HO +3)
  • ArydAryd ✭✭
    edited August 20

    Okay, the last one was a bit... pithy. While I still stand by what I've said, my whole point is they aren't looking at the problem at it's core, simply trying to treat symptoms instead of looking for the underlying disease. I mean realistically speaking, how many people (that aren't fishing bots) are above level 67, in anything less than Stormcry? I don't have an actual number, but maybe if they looked at those statistics, they may find that the answer they have for "the problem" isn't the correct one.

    What they are proposing is a bi-scalar gear system, you'll have 1 set of gear that's mainstay, up to HO+3, and performs a general role, and always outperforms a lesser form of the new gear. The other, will scale according to each boss (in usefulness that is), and based solely on your RNG of rolls on the gear, enchanting it specifically, and how often you grind mobs for mats. The new gear will eventually outweigh that of your mainstay gear, being that it can be enchanted to +15, and as previously stated, +10 Rare gear will be situationally better than HO+3. However, it's going to require a larger than life grind, and rolling against other players for your enchanting mats (something that is done currently, but without the vanguard rewards)

    ==== (There has been no mention of drop rates/Vanguard rewards for the new gear, that I'm aware, it's simply drops, and they have stated that Legendary level gear will be mostly restricted to the new dungeon)

    Also worth noting that the critical changes seem to have a more adverse affect on the game, but gear is how you attain your relevance within the game, so I see why this is more prevalent.

    Once again I'll state that the less people fail at enchanting, the more likely they are to stick around to see the final result. I'll just say it, 15% for Daylight jewellery is not okay anymore; Fix it, fix gearing problems; Add HO+6, call it a win. (Add farmable silver talents and you win/win)

  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭


    this video shows a bit more of some of the issues of the patch and the fact that the developers did not think through or properly test anything before releasing it. look at the head on passive of warrior, they did not take this into consideration, attacking from the from yeilded a scythe of around 10.6M and a back attack did 8.4M or so, thats a huge difference due to the head on passive that grants crit power boost while dealing front damage for warrior. given he was in astance, i do not see switching to dstance that scythe being lower that the back attack thats a huge margin for astance power to make up, 2M+ damage. this can even lead to the issues we had on brawler release with the brawler aka the tank out dpsing the actual dps, as irc warrior isnt the only class that has that frotn damage buff for its tanking stance, the only tank that may not out dps a dps warrior is a lancer and its also another class significantly affected by the loss of cdr.

    the other issue of this is people arent gonna want a "dead" class in their party in cases such as ims and lfg, and even in guild for leaderboard etc since they can just take probably a slayer etc. another issue that can arise is this can lead to warriors and zerks who are dpsing to side crit so imagine a scenario of a healer trying to heal players at the side of the boss and back or even worse think of bahaar about to do waves etc and you're stuck at the side of the boss. these issues clearly show that this patch, and everything contained in it from the gear revamp to loss of stats/rolls/ability to reroll stats was not thought out at all and is littered with nothing but extremely poor development choices to prolong lack of content though infinite mindnumbing grind that even koreans do not want and they want to dump it on us here in NA and other regions.

  • Guys does anybody know when this patch is going to be released in NA? Thanks
  • AluhAluh ✭✭
    edited August 20

    Since we are getting the patch 84 and 85 all together this week, im pretty sure we can expect to get the patch by the end of november.

  • well the short version is that PvE gear is basically taking on the PvP system now, as a player whose already spent millions on enchanting PvP gear, im kind of numb at this point haha

  • Elinu1Elinu1 Canada ✭✭✭✭

    Not looking forward to this change.

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