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Just saw elitism in GLSNM, smh PVErs gotta stop being so picky

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Comments

  • Fainfall, Not everyone is equal. That much is obvious and no one would disagree with that. What I was saying was that if you cant preform at a standard for whatever reason, don't blame ot on "Elitists".
    Fix the problem if you can or just do something else.
    You, me and everyone else aren't owed a run in a dungeon just because we play a game.
    It's your mindset that's the problem.
    The game doesn't owe you anything nor do the other players. Sure, being courteous is generally a nice standard but in the end you aren't owed a dungeon run. Same with me. Its the mindset that's in the wrong place.

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    Essentialmana dungeon guides are concise and simple. What are you smoking that makes you not be able to understand them? They are hardly complex but I guess some people have different learning capacities eh? If its hard for you to understand, then by all means that's fine. Just don't trash other people's hard work just because its hard for you to understand.

    I actually know what @Mythologique means. Many of the guides on EM appear to be written for people who already have extensive knowledge of the subject but are missing the odd detail here and there (i.e. most warrior-tank guides) or are written assuming that the person reading always has specific resources available at all times. Now you have a situation where a player ended up gimping themselves and all they were doing was following directions.

    Also, someone not understanding something usually means there's a failure in communication somewhere. Communication is (or should be, rather) a two-way street: if I'm explaining something and you don't understand it, you need to let me know that you don't understand it so I can then tweak my explanation in a way that you can understand.

    During my formative years, I was always taught that when explaining something, always assume your audience has no idea what you're talking about, because there will be someone somewhere that has no idea what you're talking about.

  • FainallFainall ✭✭
    edited August 24

    Albedo, I think you must have read something someone else wrote as being my post...I never said anything about elitists, or being owed anything? I did quote someone and respond who said something about elitists, but that's it.

  • I've gotten some recent new perspective on this issue.
    I played the game for about 3 years, 2 years ago. I was by no means fantastic, but I was a good trusted player.
    I used to snark at people for poor gear, lost crystals, failure to put up debuffs, not doing "ideal" things like healing through AOE's so DPS could stay in place, etc.
    Coming back, being completely out of my element, and playing priest(my old main, though I leveled a new one) from the get go was a rough start. I did the right thing and let my parties know that I was "new" each time going in.
    Last night I was looking for a quick dungeon for a vangaurd, and my FC mentioned a 65 dungeon I hadn't done yet, but said it was face roll and I'd be fine. At that, I didn't look up a guide, figured I'd be fine and popped in.
    Let me tell you, it was NOT fine.
    I got yelled at by a tank for not healing them - I was trying, but I Was struggling to keep everyone alive - period. That set me into a panic and it was just a downward spiral from there, I started pressing wrong skills, missing and poorly timing bigger heals, people were dying left and right the entire run and I was mortified. I felt absolutely helpless and ashamed.
    Had they started saying to wait up and kick me, I would have accepted it.
    Knowing I have a good player in me that just needs to be retrained again, it's easy to brush it off and keep rolling along, but if I didn't have that confidence inside me, and didn't have that knowledge of how frustrating it can be to people who do this for a mediocre VG payoff, I could very easily give up and say it's not worth it with everyone being so "toxic"

    I don't know what the right approach is. Looking back, i should have gone with an FC group before IMS. On the other hand, IMS is IMS, you get what you get.

    I think one thing I learned in coming back is how overwhelming combat can be when you are new to it. Trying to remember what skills do what, what keybinds are, trying to remember mechanics you either don't know or only just watched in a video. It's easy to forget things that eventually become muscle memory. Even simple things like crystalbinds, nostrums, a rotation etc. Right now, as a priest having been back for 7 days, it's a good day if I remember to use my buff before a fight and completely forgot crystalbinds were a thing. Sounds ridiculous, and I hate that that's where I'm at after once being at the top of my game, but that's what I get for taking such a long hiatus.

    To be kicked is really discouraging, because I know that good player is in me, I know I'm fully capable, and there have been some dungeons where I coast through them. I just am finding myself getting overwhelmed really quickly as things go wrong.

    To new players - understand that you may get people who are just looking to get in and done. Yes "go make an LFG" but LFGs take time to assemble, a lot of times guild members don't want to do what you're doing, and queuing up for IMS is the easiest way out. It's easy to get frustrated by things that, by that point in their gaming career, are complete muscle memory. Keep your chin up, ask to be kicked if you feel it, don't tell people off for being elitist or get overly confrontational, just go and try again - you can find a party who will be kinder, or just ride it out if they're letting you stick with them.

    To veterans - While I definitely first hand know the frustrations, and all I can say to you is a reminder that Tera propels new players to endgame easily in a day - even if you have no clue what you're doing, it can be done in a weekend, never having done any life or death mechanics, not learning any sort of rotation or anything, not having to do much than "face roll" and eventually you just hit that wall where all of that matters. It easily tricks you into thinking the whole game is a cakewalk. As someone coming back I didn't expect it, I didn't expect to it go from 0 difficulty to 100% difficulty for me so fast. I did SSNM where I remembered mechanics, knew what to heal through and when to save heals, and that made everything way easier so messing up my keybinds wasn't detrimental/ I did the next dungeon which was new to me (can't recall the name atm), completely fell on my face, when my guild told me it was face roll. It is an entirely different perspective when someone is new and it is so easy to go from bad to worse, so rather than assume they are trash/don't care/ are unprepared. Remember that they could just as easily be new and overwhelmed but having no time to think or react. Let them know you're in a rush and need to kick them, but don't give them a hard time about slowing you down or making things difficult as you can easily make it 10 times worse for them, and thus, yourself.

  • The elitists thing was more in general, however your earlier posts clearly where framed like people where owed dg runs even at a hypothetical subpar standard and that's one of the problems. Call me a [filtered] if you want but no one is owed a run and anyone that thinks they are is delusional.

  • Sage, I agree with you about the info on essential being for people who have rudimentary knowledge, however the amount of knowledge required to understand them is so small its negligible.

  • @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    Essentialmana dungeon guides are concise and simple. What are you smoking that makes you not be able to understand them? They are hardly complex but I guess some people have different learning capacities eh? If its hard for you to understand, then by all means that's fine. Just don't trash other people's hard work just because its hard for you to understand.

    The guide for Demon's Wheel states "just run the dungeon first before reading the guide". Extremely helpful.

    Same guide:
    "Count the total number of AoEs appeared under party members. You must keep track whether the number of AoE appeared are Odd or Even every time because this will be the key for the solution to the next mechanic that may appear randomly after 1 ~ 4 times this attack occurs."

    ...this is essentially addressing the problem backwards. We're told to count the AoEs first, then told why we're doing it afterward by which point there's an information overload and we have to re-read the paragraph. Why not just tell us what the mechanic IS first, then explain how we solve it afterward? It's a two steps forward one step back scenario. There's also a peculiar choice of language that makes it awkward to read.

    Then if I look at say... Velik's Sanctuary. There's an entire paragraph on a basic Darkan swipe, which could be cleanly summarised in a sentence or two. There's a similar problem with the mana generators and fire wall - there's a lot of text saying not much. This is a recurring theme for most everything on there.

    I'm not saying I don't give a damn about their hard work, but to quote you yourself different people have different learning capacities, some can't handle a massive wall of text and having to sift through terminology to find the very basic information "step to the side to not die". My personal pet peeve just so happens to be people who talk much but say little, and that's exactly the fault with EM.

    Besides like I said, I've never needed to use them as I've learned the dungeons blind, so if you want to question my ability to learn...you've already shot yourself in the foot there. Aggression also isn't a valid form of civil discussion.

  • edited August 26

    I see nothing wrong with what was said. You need that information in order to understand the next situation. Nothing wrong there so your point is null. You thinking it makes it awkward to read contributes nothing other than your opinion so I will ignore it as just an opinion.
    You saying it's too much text is yet again your feelings. There is nothing incorrect about the written content.
    Your entire post summed up is another way of saying "But my feelings though".
    Good for you if what you say about learning dgs blind is true. I have no way to confirm that so its just hearsay. Monkeys and typewriters amiright?
    So far you've done nothing to disprove anything I said and argued your point based of emotions.
    What a Galaxy brain.

  • MythologiqueMythologique ✭✭
    edited August 26

    @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    I see nothing wrong with what was said. You need that information in order to understand the next situation. Nothing wrong there so your point is null. You thinking it makes it awkward to read contributes nothing other than your opinion so I will ignore it as just an opinion.

    Then I guess your standards for written English are much lower than your standards for players. Good day.

    Good for you if what you say about learning dgs blind is true. I have no way to confirm that so its just hearsay. Monkeys and typewriters amiright?

    The same can also be said for your claim of being a "veteran of many mmos".

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    Sage, I agree with you about the info on essential being for people who have rudimentary knowledge, however the amount of knowledge required to understand them is so small its negligible.

    I'm simply going to repeat myself here and say that you should always assume your audience has no idea what you're talking about.

    Go into more depth if you so choose, but do realize that you won't reach as many people that way.

  • You all are taking this WAY too serious.. Epeenie arguments are not productive and are just comical to read.

    Perhaps take a break from the computer screen and take a walk outside. It is going to be September soon and cooler days are coming. :)
  • @MatrixOfLeaders said:
    You all are taking this WAY too serious.. Epeenie arguments are not productive and are just comical to read.

    Perhaps take a break from the computer screen and take a walk outside. It is going to be September soon and cooler days are coming. :)

    On a similar note, I'd say this thread has reached a logical end-of-life.

This discussion has been closed.