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Tera in 2019. A review from MMOByte.

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Comments

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Fainall said:

    @CornishRex said:
    @AlbedoBloodfallen
    @Fainall
    Jesus christ you guys.... Both of you are arguing about something with a simple solution and conveniently forgetting about certain important game mechanics that exist exactly with the purpose of alleviating the things you argue about. What the hell is going on lmao

    First of all albedo, both you and I know, if you want efficiency and if you don't want 200k/s autoattacking, spacebar-hero type players that are "playing the game their own way :)" in your party you have plenty of good guilds that focus on efficiency, good dps, good gear, high standards and the like. You could also lfg for skilled people which is something I see every day and it's totally okay. Going into IMS and expecting efficiency and no time wasters is ridiculous. IMS is not reliable, you have people often forgetting they were in the queue so you have to kick them, people being first timers is very common, people that don't speak english etc etc. If you don't want to run into people like Fainall and that @Waitress person you have plenty of ways to do so, and plenty of skilled players are already utilizing the aforementioned tools for that purpose. Efficiency. Being able to choose who you play with.

    Now Fainall and Waitress and Sage and whoever else defended the bullied newbies that refuse to look at guides same goes to you! Honestly... If you want to learn and have fun like I said earlier, join a casual guild!!! Do a learning LFG!!!! That's what mmos are about you dummies, you need to socialize, I feel like I'm repeating your own point back to you. You'll play with like-minded people and you might get skilled people willing to teach you mechanics as you're learning, I constantly join learning lfgs when I see them and have a good time watching people learn and master the dungeon. The fact that you'd rather use IMS and risk getting some [filtered] is mind boggling to me. The fact that you'd go through the embarrassment and then complain about it afterwards is also.. confusing to say the least.
    Also the reason tera community is so hell bent on making people read guides is because most of the community is experienced, the content is really old so you have some catching up to do. It is what it is. Mechanics can be complex in the way that you could wipe the rest of the party if you don't know basics which isn't fun. That is not what fun is. Fun would be if everyone was new and you're figuring things out blindly for the first time. I know that's fun. But one guy making everyone stay an extra hour in the dungeon because only he wants to have fun is a bit selfish.

    I feel like both of these sides are anti socials that refuse to make friends (either because they're too mean or too shy or anything between) and instead use ims and hope for the best party they wish for (one wishes for efficiency, other for exploring fun happy times) when both of you could take the matter into your own hands and ignore each other for the rest of your lives.

    I have friends...or did til they quit. I am not anti social in the least, I am actually a pretty nice girl. And I never said I don't read guides...I have. But I am not going to spend hours upon hours reading them. I have a business to run and real live people in my life. This is for entertainment late at night when my guy is snoring his head off and I can't sleep. And like Sage said, reading a guide and watching a video isn't the same as doing it. I am willing to work a decent amount...just not like a second job because it's a game. This is a form of recreation, the thing games were made for in the first place. Now as for Albedo, and my responses to him...he always comes in and replies to anything I have said, he twists everyone's words to try to make it look like we have said or implied something else, and it's to the point where it's harassment and I am fed up with it. So yeah today I reacted a bit strongly because he has been doing it for months, and not just to me. I usually try to temper my comments to him but there comes a point where enough is enough.

    Well you should try finding new ones, this is an mmo, a social game. It requires friends to be fun unless you have thick skin and are willing to comb through a sea of dumbasses in ims. Sadly when you ims you have to accept the risk that people you're getting are a mixed bag. Many people that ims do so because of negative reasons like they're not skilled enough, or they're disliked by their server so they can't get into lfgs etc. I personally enjoy ims and I love dealing with all flavours of people but I know some people don't. And for those people you have fairly easy solutions I already gave. As for guides, of course reading them is not the same as experiencing the dungeons. But reading an rke guide to know that you have to activate a pylon at 95% makes the difference from clearing to wiping in a matter of seconds because someone wanted to "have fun uwu". Which like I said, is fine if you have like-minded people with you. I don't analyze and study guides for hours either, I just like getting the gist of it which takes like 5 minutes to skim through. But I'm not crazy enough to queue a dungeon that I never did and expect people not to kick me if I wipe them, frankly I'd be too ashamed to do that lol. And Albedo feels like a weird caricature of a person because if he really was a great efficient player as he claims he was he'd stick to statics and farming in skilled guilds which he doesn't, which makes me wonder. He does have a point though, expecting others to want to have fun with a person that refuses to read guides is a tad selfish and inconsiderate. But then again, it's ims so what do ya expect. It's a dumb circular argument that like I said, has easy solutions.

  • SerenadeSerenade ✭✭
    edited October 2019

    @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    Nice straw man big guy. How he is being entitled is he knows they exist and purposefully ignores them and wastes other people's time then whines about it on the forums. Since you somehow have never met anyone in any other mmo community that tells people to read guides, I'll do you a favor and name a few for you.

    World of Warcraft. Me and quite a few of my friends have been told to read guides to learn the dgs and raids.
    Blade and soul. My bro on discord has been told to read guides.
    Runescape 3. I've seen many people kicked from ed3 raids because they didn't read guides
    And of course lets not forget Aion where many people I know have been kicked and told to read guides.
    I find it very sus that you come to posts and post things like this.

    People keep on forgetting that Byte is talking about leveling dungeons, so let's put your examples into perspective:

    Blade and Soul: NO ONE, and I repeat NO ONE, asks for guides on dungeons like Tomb of the Exiles or Forgotten Tomb. When I played B&S in its earlier release dates, people were forgiving about mechanics even on non-end game max level stuff. EDIT: I remember doing Cold Storage when I finally hit the gear and HM level requirements. I've been in plenty of Cold Storage parties where half of the party died by the second attack, and no one gave a crap at all, because it's not end-game and people can easily carry others through it.

    Runescape's ED3 raids are end-game. Obviously you need to read guides for those. That's not even close to comparable to leveling dungeons.

    Aion also doesn't kick people for leveling dungeons, from the short periods that I played it.

    Reading things about the dungeon is not the same as doing it, you're right but it does tell you and show you what to do. Let's also not conveniently forget about video guides sage.
    Everyone reading this, if nothing else, think about this: In what other mmo community are people unironically defending people who intentionally waste people's time for their own selfish desires?

    The games you pointed out, save for Blade and Soul, are ones with conventionally easy leveling dungeons, so let me use some of the more difficult ones to show just how silly this argument is.

    Wildstar: If you played the game on its early release days before the game casualized, the level 20 dungeons are comparable to end-game ones in other games with demanding mechanics and difficult requirements. PuG parties, even those that know instances left and right, wiped on a regular basis in the game due to this. Reading guides were still not required.

    Final Fantasy 14: I played FF14 back in OG and Heavensward, so I remember the level 50 MSQ instances. We had instances like The Chrysalis where PuGs would regularly wipe from mechanics, and as a scholar I've had to carry parties during meteor phase before. Every single leveling dungeon and trial had mechanics that could wipe, and yet, people still didn't demand it. I can't count how many people I carried through and rezzed without even a word when farming my tomestones.

    EDIT: He said queuing for leveling dungeons in the 64-65 range, so back when he's playing that's Marsellius Catacombs (before it was removed and renovated into an end-game dungeon), Manaya's Core, and a bunch of the lower 64-65 ones like Ravenous Gorge and Kallivan's that is faster for a dude to carry the rest of his party through than actually kicking and waiting for another person. Maybe, at worst, it's Red Refuge or the 7-man Velik's Hold. Unless if he somehow got enchanted Stormcry in the short amount of time he's able to play the game, the stuff he can queue for are easy carry-through dungeons that people regularly carried newbies through back in the Starlyn events.

  • FainallFainall ✭✭✭

    I think you are mistaking what I mean when I say I want to have fun on the game...that just means I don't want to study for endless hours like it's a pre-law college course. It doesn't mean I want to troll or a carry or whatever...all I mean when I said the game should be fun is that it should be enjoyable. And I have never ever used that annoying "UWU" thing. I don't mind queing up for random runs at all. I don't mind if someone doesn't know what they are doing or aren't super skilled. I don't mind reading a guide...as long as it's a quick read. That is fine by me....because it's a game. Everyone has a learning curve. I don't understand why ya all think this is so bad. I also don't understand why you people seem to think it's all black and white...either you are skilled and can do the game in your sleep or you are a troll who is lazy and wants to be carried. There are shades of grey in between. Some people are sort of skilled, not asking for a carry and want to learn. But it takes them a bit of time to get the hang of things. Why is that so bad? I just don't get it. Why is it so hard to be patient with people who are genuinely trying to learn it but yet want the game to be enjoyable in the process? Why is that a crime on this game? I have never played a game where the community is like this...and I have played a ton of games.

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    This thread.... How big you have become in such short time. So much controversy too.... for something so easily solved by the small tips some of us have scattered around these forums for years....

    Seek like-minded people before diving in!

    This has been a rule of logic since the ancient times of gaming. If you hate a certain gamer demographic, you are making it excessively difficult for yourself by risking playing a game with people you don't want to have near you. Instance matching, as proved so many times, only accepts the patient, forgiving people who can take a a noob triggered wipe and continue on with a straight face. Anyone else will just be granted a headache and a sore evening from it. It's just how it goes when games get older and the gaps between newbies and older players get larger. In too many cases, the older the game, the bigger is the need to get yourself a static. And if all your friends leave, seek new ones or ponder why they left. Maybe you would feel like following them...

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    Look, not everyone is going to look up extra info and it should not be a requirement to do so. That's the point I'm making, that's the point I've always made. Part of that is on the community, part of that is on the game itself - something I can't help but notice is that not too many people are mentioning the massive learning spike once you hit the 65+ dungeons (which I think Styx touched on?), which then leads to this very topic about game knowledge. I remember having a conversation with someone about how the game itself expects you to have all this extra knowledge that never came up and then penalizes you for not having that knowledge you didn't know you needed (I'd link the post/thread, but it's from like 2 years ago and I currently don't have the patience to look for it).

    There's also the fact that the guide in question might be hilariously inaccurate. Even something as lauded as Essential Mana makes mistakes like with their brawler guides - they're written in such a way that they assume the reader has access to specific resources at all times. If that reader doesn't, they're left with a gimped brawler and they have no alternative scaling paths. So now you have a situation where a person did read a guide, but it ended up doing more harm than good since the reader can't get what the guide says they should have and there are literally no other options in lieu of that.

    Again, most people just want to PLAY THE [filtered] GAME and not have to do homework for something that should be used for general entertainment (which is a problem for several narrative-driven game even to this day (coughDestinycough). Guides should, ideally, be for augmenting prior knowledge and filling in the holes therein (provided the information is accurate).

    Honest question: is that really too much to ask?

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    Observation: I went back through some of the replies, right?

    Where are some of you getting the idea that

    "I want to learn on my merits.

    or

    "I learn better by experience."

    equated to

    "carry me sempai i'm scared lol UwU"

    ?

    Where are all these scores of people demanding to be carried? Some of you managed to get that out of someone not wanting to read a guide that they didn't even know was a thing and may not be accurate?

    Another honest question, as I seriously do not see the correlation.

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SageWindu said:
    Observation: I went back through some of the replies, right?

    Where are some of you getting the idea that

    "I want to learn on my merits.

    or

    "I learn better by experience."

    equated to

    "carry me sempai i'm scared lol UwU"

    ?

    Where are all these scores of people demanding to be carried? Some of you managed to get that out of someone not wanting to read a guide that they didn't even know was a thing and may not be accurate?

    Another honest question, as I seriously do not see the correlation.

    Sometimes learning on your own merits (if starting from 0!) means you're getting the party stuck for a couple of hours. All I'm saying is, if you have 0 experience in a dungeon and you don't want to learn through a guide (which is okay!!!!) find like minded individuals and have all the fun in the world. If you're so hellbent on not looking up a video then you can follow my suggestions a few posts above, it's really simple. Doing so in ims is inconsiderate and selfish to say the least, yes it's just as inconsiderate as the people kicking you if you waste their time (however I'd like to bring up the point most newbies aren't even aware the dungeon they're queuing for might be hard which is another can of worms...). Both parties are at fault. IMS should be a sort of middle ground for people that have some experience in a dungeon and those that do but can't perform up to elitists standards, or it should also serve as a place for people that are too lazy to lfg but are aware of the risks they take when they ims. Also everyone learns better by experience, that point is just unnecessary. I do think the game should prepare you better for the difficulty spike but I also believe this is a point where a player should become involved in a community, a nice guild that will help them and explain things to them. Everyone has a certain amount of responsibility in mmos, it's a more demanding genre imo when it comes to teamwork, pulling your own weight or coming prepared if needed.

    It is indeed the games fault for introducing more and more complicated mechs over time but such is the fate of an mmo with a veteran playerbase that needs more challenge to keep things interesting. But there's only so many mechs you can think of, and we all know bhs is not going to go out of their way to innovate too much. Although the recent trend has been doing away with such dungeons. Recent dungeons all have pretty self explanatory mechs, it's just a matter of practice but there's no memorization games or anything too complex to keep track of.

  • One thing I noticed is that there are many elitist players here saying that there are several players (novice) who need to read a guide and learn the mechanics of DG by video and do not do because they are too lazy to search right?

    But aren't they themselves being lazy because they aren't looking for other elitist players to play with them?

    really already has the solution for that elitists play with other elitists, but they don't do it because?

    because elitists can't stand other elitists.
    They should know that conversations with other elitists have probably made them angry at the disagreement with things and then prefer to be doing random dg and kicking the novice player who tries to socialize with other elitists.

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PP597W94LA said:
    One thing I noticed is that there are many elitist players here saying that there are several players (novice) who need to read a guide and learn the mechanics of DG by video and do not do because they are too lazy to search right?

    But aren't they themselves being lazy because they aren't looking for other elitist players to play with them?

    really already has the solution for that elitists play with other elitists, but they don't do it because?

    because elitists can't stand other elitists.
    They should know that conversations with other elitists have probably made them angry at the disagreement with things and then prefer to be doing random dg and kicking the novice player who tries to socialize with other elitists.

    People that are actually really skilled and are elitist or whatever play inside their own guilds and statics you are correct. Those that are forced to ims all the time aren't really at the level of skill they think they are so they take it out on newer players, I've seen it a lot in ims. It's just their egoes that are gigantic and they often forget they were new before too. You know the type: a full heroic oath lvl 70 player that can't do more than 6m/s [filtered]-talks a newbie for messing up a mech when they are playing at an unsatisfactory level themselves.

  • and there is another solution that would solve this easily
    En Masse simply creates a new server with the name "exclusive to elitist" and transfers the account of all elitists to a server separate from the person they want to play casually or have fun in the game.

  • ^That sounds very elitist of you.

  • I'm sorry.
    The name I used was more as an example.
    but I think it would be an acceptable solution.

  • plus i think it creates a server only for "serious player" (server where only those who spend money enter)
    would send that "serious players" waste their time with "new players" who do not spend money on the game

  • Wew the salt in here. Delicious.

  • @PP597W94LA said:
    plus i think it creates a server only for "serious player" (server where only those who spend money enter)
    would send that "serious players" waste their time with "new players" who do not spend money on the game

    they could always create a training server, where everyone there starts at level 65, not able to buy cosmetics, the dungeons are always open and it is a tutorial to help people learn the dungeons. then you can go back to your normal servers with your regular characters and be able to run with the elites

This discussion has been closed.