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Tera in 2019. A review from MMOByte.

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Comments

  • I already think it would be the opposite nobody would play on the elitist server because it is very toxic

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SageWindu said:
    @CornishRex
    To that I ask why do I NEED to join a guild just to "explore"? Why do I NEED to go through all these extra steps when all I want to do is play the game, enjoy the challenge, and enjoy the challenge of OVERCOMING that challenge? Why do I NEED to look up guides, videos, blogs, stream clips, and so on? And even then, no one has any guarantee that the run will be any better for it. It's better to just assume the worst, so then if it happens, you can just roll with it and continue on (mostly) unhindered (hell, the most fun I've had was a TS run where EVERYTHING went to crap. We didn't wipe, but man was it hilarious).

    Really, from all this back and forth between the various people in this thread, it seems to be an issue with the design ethos of MMOs at large being at odds with how the average player wants to conduct their sessions (I think someone brought that up earlier?). We've all been in situations where we can't do our favorite dungeons because our usual running mates weren't online and the risks of finding a replacement outweighed the rewards. An easy way to fix this would be to retune the dungeons to have scaling difficulties; that way, a person who's not very sociable can still enjoy the game on their own and not be hounded by the community about "gitting gud". 2-man Rift's Edge Hard - let's go. :smiley:

    Aside: Man, these forums are dildoes.

    You need to find like minded individuals because this is an mmo that requires teamwork and group coordination, it's not a solo game. Guides are not needed if you don't want them. It's not an extra step, it's literally what this genre is about. Hence the M and the M and the O lol. Everything else countepoint pretty much explained perfectly.

  • edited October 2019

    @SageWindu said:
    @counterpoint
    Remember, this all started from Styx saying he was kicked from a LEVELING dungeon for being NEW.

    Again, KICKED from a LEVELING DUNGEON for being NEW.

    Yes, I personally think that's a ridiculous end-result and is absolutely hurting the game's long-term growth potential (as it impacted these people), wherever the "fault" lies. I actually passed this video along to EME staff and noted that specific point: the transition from leveling content to end-game has a wall that many new players don't cross due in part to design and part to player toxicity. Ultimately, player behavior is driven in large part (though not exclusively) by the game design, so the game designers ultimately have to make a game that encourages the kinds of behaviors they intend. Of course, the trouble with this is that is that player behavior is also cultural, so the way players approach things like IMS might be very different in Korea than it is here. That's why they have to be aware of the cultural differences and the impact, and change the game accordingly to take that into account. Whether they will or can... well, that's another story, obviously.

    I definitely don't think the situation is okay as is, but it's also a complicated issue. Predicting the impact of game design decisions on human behavior is one of the most advanced (and I think interesting) aspects of multiplayer game design theory. I hope they'll look at it seriously.

  • MatrixOfLeadersMatrixOfLeaders ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    Most "elitists" use scripts and 3rd party programs to maximize their dps to the fullest, even if it requires cheating. I have seen it and heard it in Discord guild voice chats... They eat and breath Tera and accept no other than the best of the best in parties.

    no ty...

    That being said, ignore and block them. Just log on, and have a good time and then log out. You do not need HO to enjoy Tera. I enjoy playing mid tier dungeons more and I am full +9 SC.
    The low and mid tier dungeons have many more people that are generally much nicer and more respectful.

    Also, to be honest, the people who are not from the USA are the best to party up with because of the general respect. Most all of the toxic people I have encountered are entitled Americans with horrible attitudes. (Coming from an American player btw..)

    Been playing since 2013 off and on.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:

    @SageWindu said:
    @counterpoint
    Remember, this all started from Styx saying he was kicked from a LEVELING dungeon for being NEW.

    Again, KICKED from a LEVELING DUNGEON for being NEW.

    Yes, I personally think that's a ridiculous end-result and is absolutely hurting the game's long-term growth potential (as it impacted these people), wherever the "fault" lies. I actually passed this video along to EME staff and noted that specific point: the transition from leveling content to end-game has a wall that many new players don't cross due in part to design and part to player toxicity. Ultimately, player behavior is driven in large part (though not exclusively) by the game design, so the game designers ultimately have to make a game that encourages the kinds of behaviors they intend. Of course, the trouble with this is that is that player behavior is also cultural, so the way players approach things like IMS might be very different in Korea than it is here. That's why they have to be aware of the cultural differences and the impact, and change the game accordingly to take that into account. Whether they will or can... well, that's another story, obviously.

    I definitely don't think the situation is okay as is, but it's also a complicated issue. Predicting the impact of game design decisions on human behavior is one of the most advanced (and I think interesting) aspects of multiplayer game design theory. I hope they'll look at it seriously.

    At least with the current system, they keep veterans and players willing to learn some of the dungeon on their own. Maybe if veteran players have rookies on their team, they shouldn't lose adventure coins or something like that. Maybe the dungeon could be adjusted or extra/special loot added whenever there is a rookie on the team. Something that would reward veteran players for taking the time and energy to educate new players. The main problem is that players unwilling to learn anything on their own aren't going to change for end game dungeons if they are being hand held through leveling dungeons. Plus, they are the ones that end up complaining that the game is too easy whenever they do get walked through dungeons, so it's just a no win situation. If you really like the game, you're going to take the extra time to learn dungeons and keep at it until you get there. If you aren't really into Tera, you're just going to make excuse after excuse on why it's not new player friendly and doesn't accommodate new players and so on. Lets face it, most of the ones demanding that they shouldn't be expected to work or learn anything on their own are the same ones that visit the forums daily to trash EME or Tera in general. So, obviously, they aren't into the game enough to want to learn.

  • explain how the new players will like the tera endgame being that the elitists are kicking them and not letting the new players have tested the endgame to see will it like it or not?

    By the logic of whatever a new player will play until the endgame tests the dg ve be the community of the game is big and friendly then they will invest more time and money in the game.

    plus tera is a media player community that is not very friendly.

    summary tera have a great game with a toxic endgame community.

    and having a toxic endgame community is already a failure for mmo, it would be better if the game was infested with hack than toxic player, that at least - the hack could just ban them from the game

  • I see here elitist writing for the new player looking for "Guide"

    more so far from 90 comment here nor one of the elitist puts a link to some "Guide" (2019 updater) here in this topic.

    I can said that these guide is hard to find isn't it?

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    One thing I see from the end game structure is that veterans and rookies do the same dungeons. Rookies need them to progress, obvious, but veterans do them because they also get resources from them aside what they get from their gear range dungeons. This mixing, in theory, would have been a good way to have newbies and veterans working together and knowing each other. But due to the nature the community has turned into, this is where most of the toxic behavior happens.

    So, what if the system is reworked in a way veterans have no need to do lower end dungeons at all? What if instead, veterans get a different kind of reward (cosmetics? custom titles? mentor status?) for doing these low end dungeons with newbies without having to worry about their own progression? This may keep veterans who don't want to mingle with newer, lower geared players doing their own stuff unaffected, while also rewarding veterans willing to help these players grow.

    Now, I'm retired. I don't play anymore. So if the devs are already doing something in this direction, please let it be known here, and let also be known if such a direction is viable or if something can be done without wasting too many dev resources. Because in the end, any ideas posted here would require dev resources if they are implemented.

    As for leveling duneons and people being kicked from them, is that common nowadays? I've never been kicked from any 20-64 dungeon, nor from any starter 65 place. Though I used to be helpful by already knowing them and even giving tips if others were struggling. Then again, at least in my time, it was very uncommon to see a kick at all, even through wipes. So is the community being yet even more toxic? Or are these actually isolated cases blown out of proportion for the sake of an argument?

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Nopi said:
    As for leveling duneons and people being kicked from them, is that common nowadays? I've never been kicked from any 20-64 dungeon, nor from any starter 65 place. Though I used to be helpful by already knowing them and even giving tips if others were struggling. Then again, at least in my time, it was very uncommon to see a kick at all, even through wipes. So is the community being yet even more toxic? Or are these actually isolated cases blown out of proportion for the sake of an argument?

    It's not common in the slightest. I've leveled more than a few characters just recently and I encountered 0 toxicity, let alone the 50 chars I've leveled in the past. I'm honestly really weirded out by mmobytes experience - not just because he got kicked but because he found out the reasons for getting kicked. More often than not when people kick a newbie (with bad gear or crystals or whatever) they're going to do it without announcing. Honestly this intrigues me so much I'd like to personally ask him. Who kicks people for gear in leveling dungeons? What mechanics are there to get kicked for in leveling dungeons? Honestly either they're really unlucky or idk maybe they got kicked for afking and just came to a conclusion that because the endgame is toxic from perhaps their past experiences the leveling process is too, either way something's fishy to me lmao

    That aside I also rarely see kicks nowadays, every glsh run I've done in the past few months in ims had a few learning people and we would always go through at least 3 wipes on last boss while I explained stuff and the other experienced players endured and did their best. GVH as well. And these are the highest ilvl dungeons. I really see it rarely but I'll just chalk it up to luck since so many people in this thread are adamant in their belief that the endgame is ~super toxic and elitist~. And I'm playing on EU, the region that in my experience at least, has more toxicity.

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2019

    @CornishRex said:

    @SageWindu said:
    @CornishRex
    To that I ask why do I NEED to join a guild just to "explore"? Why do I NEED to go through all these extra steps when all I want to do is play the game, enjoy the challenge, and enjoy the challenge of OVERCOMING that challenge? Why do I NEED to look up guides, videos, blogs, stream clips, and so on? And even then, no one has any guarantee that the run will be any better for it. It's better to just assume the worst, so then if it happens, you can just roll with it and continue on (mostly) unhindered (hell, the most fun I've had was a TS run where EVERYTHING went to crap. We didn't wipe, but man was it hilarious).

    Really, from all this back and forth between the various people in this thread, it seems to be an issue with the design ethos of MMOs at large being at odds with how the average player wants to conduct their sessions (I think someone brought that up earlier?). We've all been in situations where we can't do our favorite dungeons because our usual running mates weren't online and the risks of finding a replacement outweighed the rewards. An easy way to fix this would be to retune the dungeons to have scaling difficulties; that way, a person who's not very sociable can still enjoy the game on their own and not be hounded by the community about "gitting gud". 2-man Rift's Edge Hard - let's go. :smiley:

    Aside: Man, these forums are dildoes.

    You need to find like minded individuals because this is an mmo that requires teamwork and group coordination, it's not a solo game. Guides are not needed if you don't want them. It's not an extra step, it's literally what this genre is about. Hence the M and the M and the O lol. Everything else countepoint pretty much explained perfectly.

    We're just going to have to agree to disagree, then. From where I'm sitting, there is nothing in this game or the next that says it is mandatory for me to party up with others, friend or otherwise.

    Which is (one of) the point(s) I've been making - MMOs prefer one to party up (i.e. dungeons), but they do not have to if they so wish. And thus, why isn't the game better tuned to accommodate that? Hell, my very first character I maxed out exactly by playing solo and doing story missions, since, in general, I don't like people enough to want to go out of my way and interact with them. But that's just me.

    I'm not going to argue the semantics of the term "MMO" as that's just going to open another can of worms that this place doesn't need.

    Edit: I should've said why is the game no longer tuned to accommodate the non-social butterflies. Anyone who remembers when the Patron/Devastator/Archetype gear sets were all the rage, one could get those items without having to party with others. It was a slow process, but a process one could take nonetheless.

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CornishRex I've also just read something I didn't know. Most leveling dungeons in Tera now have solo story versions at least up to Manaya's Core. I'm starting to believe the video poster mistook any level 65 dungeon as a "leveling" dungeon, or something more sinister. Guess someone should ask him exactly which dungeon he was kicked from.

  • > @CornishRex said:
    > (Quote)
    > It's not common in the slightest. I've leveled more than a few characters just recently and I encountered 0 toxicity, let alone the 50 chars I've leveled in the past. I'm honestly really weirded out by mmobytes experience - not just because he got kicked but because he found out the reasons for getting kicked. More often than not when people kick a newbie (with bad gear or crystals or whatever) they're going to do it without announcing. Honestly this intrigues me so much I'd like to personally ask him. Who kicks people for gear in leveling dungeons? What mechanics are there to get kicked for in leveling dungeons? Honestly either they're really unlucky or idk maybe they got kicked for afking and just came to a conclusion that because the endgame is toxic from perhaps their past experiences the leveling process is too, either way something's fishy to me lmao
    >
    > That aside I also rarely see kicks nowadays, every glsh run I've done in the past few months in ims had a few learning people and we would always go through at least 3 wipes on last boss while I explained stuff and the other experienced players endured and did their best. GVH as well. And these are the highest ilvl dungeons. I really see it rarely but I'll just chalk it up to luck since so many people in this thread are adamant in their belief that the endgame is ~super toxic and elitist~. And I'm playing on EU, the region that in my experience at least, has more toxicity.

    Hey! I signed up to the forums specifically to answer questions people have pertaining to my experiences.

    How I knew why I got kicked is because I did the entire leveling journey with my wife MrsStix who both times asked why I got kicked. She was Priest - so they never wanted to kick her but I was a replaceable DPS.
  • Can you tell us which dungeon(s) you were kicked from?

  • Personally I've only been kicked once. I think its Manayas Core that has the unavoidable debuff that deals like 300% your max hp total overtime, cant be cleansed, and keeps going upon resurrection or something stupid like that. I was dumb and didnt have items and the Priest wasnt healing me. I got locked out of the dungeon when I died then kicked. Could've been avoided if I was smarter going in but i forgot to stock up. I obviously dont blame them for that haha.
  • FainallFainall ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019

    @Nopi said:
    One thing I see from the end game structure is that veterans and rookies do the same dungeons. Rookies need them to progress, obvious, but veterans do them because they also get resources from them aside what they get from their gear range dungeons. This mixing, in theory, would have been a good way to have newbies and veterans working together and knowing each other. But due to the nature the community has turned into, this is where most of the toxic behavior happens.

    So, what if the system is reworked in a way veterans have no need to do lower end dungeons at all? What if instead, veterans get a different kind of reward (cosmetics? custom titles? mentor status?) for doing these low end dungeons with newbies without having to worry about their own progression? This may keep veterans who don't want to mingle with newer, lower geared players doing their own stuff unaffected, while also rewarding veterans willing to help these players grow.

    Now, I'm retired. I don't play anymore. So if the devs are already doing something in this direction, please let it be known here, and let also be known if such a direction is viable or if something can be done without wasting too many dev resources. Because in the end, any ideas posted here would require dev resources if they are implemented.

    As for leveling duneons and people being kicked from them, is that common nowadays? I've never been kicked from any 20-64 dungeon, nor from any starter 65 place. Though I used to be helpful by already knowing them and even giving tips if others were struggling. Then again, at least in my time, it was very uncommon to see a kick at all, even through wipes. So is the community being yet even more toxic? Or are these actually isolated cases blown out of proportion for the sake of an argument?

    Let me tell you what happened yesterday. I was leveling a char...and I went to Sky Garden. A dungeon I have done on many many chars. I ran into one room with the other two people and it's one that no one has ever bypassed before. (Not the one people usually bypass.) Suddenly I am dead and the tank is just screaming at me. I said why did you leave me there? She said I never do those mobs and if you die again I will kick you. As if it's somehow my fault I can't read her mind that SHE never does those mobs. I have never once seen anyone bypass those. So yeah I think it can happen in leveling dungeons. While I didn't get kicked I was threatened with it because she was in such a hurry and didn't bother to say a word about anything let alone what she wanted to do or expected of rest of the party. Also I want to note that she wouldn't wait for the two seconds for the rest of us to get to the room before breaking the crystal and we got locked out of several rooms.

    As for the solo versions of the instances, those only give you 30% or something like that at the end of the dungeon. You don't get any exp from the mobs at all.

    @Breach3440 If it's the parasite debuff, you know you can remove that by simply jumping in the air.

This discussion has been closed.