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Tera in 2019. A review from MMOByte.

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Comments

  • pics or it didnt happen

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    @StixByte Hello. Mind posting, if you remember, which dungeons you were kicked from? If you don't remember the names, at least can you tell if they were pre-65 or post 65? I ask because people who have been around for awhile most likely see level 65 dungeons as part of the main end game grind, while anything below it is considered the actual leveling and anything above being min maxing. Newbies and long returning players on the other hand would see levels 65-70 as an extension of the actual leveling, despite the exp differences they have. And thus for these people, getting kicked from a level 65 dungeon would count as getting kicked from a "leveling" dungeon.

  • JerichowJerichow ✭✭✭✭

    To be honest a part of me thinks part of this problem can be attributed to the speed at which people level in this game.

    Without Elite or any other boosters, and just with the 'Joy of Partying' buff - you're getting what, 400% extra XP in dungeons? I haven't leveled an alt in quite some time but assuming not much, if anything has changed then you're looking at being able to casually instance match a character from your first BOL all the way up to cracking 65 in probably 6-8 hours as long as you're getting queues to pop on a regular basis. For an RPG that's just ludicrous.

    For a game like Tera which has a much more difficult and steep learning curve for actual high end gameplay, it's impossible to misunderstand part of why a veteran player leveling his however-many'eth alt would be annoyed that a person only just a few hours into this game from their very first login isn't holding aggro as a Lancer.

    I remember when I first started, playing 4-6 hours a day just casually going about the game doing quests until I ran into dungeons, running said dungeon a few times, then questing through until the next dungeon, it took me well over a week to hit 65. I think slowing leveling back down to a rate like that for people to actually have time to learn how to play their class would fix more things than it would ever come close to harming.

    I understand that EME has a vested interest in having as many people as possible at Lv 65+ because people at the 'end game' are significantly more likely to spend money in the cash shop - I get that... But I would genuinely wonder if a few quick bucks from new players before getting chased out by a hissing mob of angry elitists is worth more than changing things back and giving said newer players more time to actually learn how to play the game before tossing them to the wolves of the remaining endgame community.

    I can't imagine it would be terribly difficult either, to remove the JOP buff from dungeons, and heck if it's just money EME is concerned over, they can just add it to the cash shop or replace the current Lv60 scroll with 1, 3, and 7 day 400% XP boosters - that way anyone looking to blitzkrieg a character to endgame would be able to have that buff and be at cap in a few hours, and newer players who are actually interested in playing through what story this game has can do so at a much more reasonable pace.

    Maybe I'm just naive to how new players are these days, but given that I had a friend tell me one time after getting to 65 in 2 days of casual 'couple hours a day' playing, that he was shocked that he was already at level-cap, I'm inclined to believe he's probably not the only one. He got to 65 and still had no idea that abilities chained, let alone know how/when to chain them during fights so that he could maximize his damage. Heck, he barely even understood front/side/back damage, and only had proper crystals because I gave them to him to use. Perhaps it's just me but I think a step in the right direction to fix this would be to slow leveling down a bit so that new players can actually have some time to learn how to play their class before hitting end-game and having to match up with people who have been playing this game for years and have unrealistic expectations of said new players.

  • FLaMiNxCHaoSFLaMiNxCHaoS ✭✭
    edited October 2019

    @Blackbirdx61 said:
    Fine really you have every right to never party with someone beneath you; but please then stop whinning about how your game is dying.

    Because you cant have it both ways. You can Have a tiny, ever diminishing population of Elitists, or you can welcome new players into your game; but when you boot someone thats an invitation to leave the game, not just the party. So hand out all those invites you want; and when your game dies remember it was YOU that killed it.

    2014 player here and 100% agree with this. the elitist community is what killed the game off. turned away hella new potential players to the game. haven't played in a while but decided to check the forums due to the new area expansion. all the instant booting for having low gear scared off the new players. i still remember when it was quite prevalent in CS and FWC. and really? looking up guides? how do u think guides were even made? lmao. someone had to run the dungeon first without any experience. how are people to learn without even given a chance? seeing people getting insta booted from pvp was a huge turn off for me and my group of friends/guildies when it came to CS and FWC.

    @Waitress said:

    @Christin said:
    Interesting video until he practically starts crying over getting kicked from a few dungeons. Only alternative is to not allow kicking, so yeah.
    @AlbedoBloodfallen said:
    How hard is it to look up a dungeon guide?

    Oh reading these comments just drove me nuts lol. Another ex player here that pops up from time to time to state very obvious things.
    I too started at first beta, p2p, etc. Back then we didnt HAAAAAAAAAAAVE to read guides and THAT is the point!!!!!!!!!! lmao.

    And as someone else said, this isn't just a Tera issue anymore.
    I'd say it's more like a newer gamer generation thing where none of them want to explain anything. None of them want to get to know anyone, everyone wants to play solo and think that they're the only person that matters. Years ago, MMOs were about teamwork. No, not in the sense that you all already read some guide that someone else typed out for you telling you exactly what to do so you don't have to use even one brain cell. You just charged in and figured it out together how it works. Sure, maybe someone in group saw a video about it. But it was NEVER this mandatory thing that it is these days where if you admit that you didn't spend 3 weeks researching the ins and outs of every single dungeon in a game you're literally trying for the first time then you get yelled at and kicked. If that was the situation, I wouldn't have played for 4 years lol.

    It doesnt even make sense anyway. If I'm going to a new store in town, I don't google the owner, their family, the etiquette-I just go shopping!!! and that's how playing MMOs used to be. and that's why they're dying now. Because people went from enjoying to play and learn together to getting visibly upset and shaken at even the idea of not only having to interact with someone but to even have to interact with someone who didn't study before downloading the game like they were apparently supposed to. I feel like this entire generation has no idea what it means to explore anymore. If they don't have a guide telling them which way to wipe their behind, they're just not gonna wipe to avoid "wasting time" doing it wrong lmao god

    So yes, a lot of players are at fault too. Don't act innocent and like all newbies are supposed to impress you from the jump.
    If people weren't rude to each other you'd have more players and that's that on that.

    10000% agree

  • @Fainall Oh thanks xD. I didnt know.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    It doesn't matter if you're kicked from an end game dungeon or a "leveling" dungeon. Get over it already and move on. If you can't, don't do anymore dungeons. This thread has turned into some kind of witch hunt, and I guarantee people aren't going to be banned for kicking no matter how much others stomp up and down about it. There's nothing against the rules about kicking, and we're only getting one side of the story from all of these complaints. Yeah, I've made mistakes, and I've been kicked. However, I either worked on my toon more or read a guide telling me why I died. It's really not that complicated. If you want to do a lot of dungeons, find friends or get your current friends to play. Time to grow up a bit, stop calling everyone "elitist" for not wanting to hand-hold you or take the time through every part to make sure everyone knows what to do. If you're too lazy to look up guides or even try to learn mechs on your own, this game or dungeons aren't for you. It's as simple as that.

    Y'all can say the game is dead, because you're not getting coddled, but it's obviously still pulling in plenty of cash. There's plenty of players out there willing to learn and join with the veteran players, play event or farming for whatever. All games start off heavily populated and end up with a lower population. The population isn't lowering just because the devs aren't following your instructions or demands.

    Really, the only answer to this problem is to make the dungeons extremely easy, because people say they shouldn't be made to read guides. That means that all dungeons would need to remove mechs and be easy enough for children to do them. Is that really what you guys need? The dungeons dumbed-down for you, because you can't be bothered to learn anything before hand? Seems like that really is the only thing that will satisfy most of you. Sad but true.

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Christin said:
    Really, the only answer to this problem is to make the dungeons extremely easy, because people say they shouldn't be made to read guides. That means that all dungeons would need to remove mechs and be easy enough for children to do them. Is that really what you guys need? The dungeons dumbed-down for you, because you can't be bothered to learn anything before hand? Seems like that really is the only thing that will satisfy most of you. Sad but true.

    And I say yet again, why is it almost mandatory for someone to do advanced research for something they don't know exists? You guys are demanding people to look for answers to questions they don't have. How does that make sense?

    Also, how and/or why do you guys keep going to these extremes? "lol make the game into supes EZ mode for babies lol" Yet another honest question: where are you guys getting this from because I haven't seen it in this thread or the next except from the people who keep saying "just read a guide/join a guild/make friends lol".

    You know what, I think it's time for this thread (or at least this specific topic) to be put out to pasture as so many people (hell, myself included) are just talking in circles and it doesn't seem anyone's going to reach an agreement on anything anytime soon.

    And to think, all Stix said (paraphrasing mine) was "I got kicked for being new." Then again, I really shouldn't be too surprised, given this place...

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel this thread should be moved on from, because I don't see any side really trying to understand the other side, much less trying to bargain a compromise of any sort. Those wanting to be efficient keep saying that the other side is lazy and only wants to be carried, even when told nobody has ever asked for a carry here. Those not wanting to read guides also fail to understand that the World does not spin just for them, and in a multiplayer environment, some compromises have to be made to accommodate everyone, and that self discovery and exploring may not be the best thing to do in a PuG as not everyone is sitting on the same page.

    So really, I can only say what we have been saying. You want super efficient runs? Get a static. You want to explore and tackle the dungeon like it is a first time single player game? Get a static. Want to pug? You should be prepared for anything in there, and whatever you get, just take a deep breath and decide if it's best to stay or leave. In all instances, the least worth thing to do is to argue and fight in a place nobody will take you seriously.

    As for the kicking itself, it's there to be used, and it's not only to kick people for foul behavior. It's there to also quickly deal with disagreements and it's the final statement saying someone doesn't want to play with you. So yeah, as far as I understand (me being currently on the sidelines), it's still not a reportable offense to kick someone for being new. It's not a reportable offense to even kick someone because the kicker didn't like something about the other player, even if it is something as silly as the race of the avatar (there was quite some anti elin xenophobia out there when I was active..), or whatever else. So yeah, someone underperforming in the eyes of another can be grounds for kicking. Another option is for them to leave the group if their opinion is outnumbered.

    On the flip side, if youtubers like mmobyte want to say they were kicked from a leveling dungeon for being new, and they honestly believe that's really what happened, nobody has any reason to bark at him for it. It's his opinion and his watchers will see his statement and decide what to do with it. I doubt Tera will die because of his video, anyway.

  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    I completely agree. It's time to move on and start appreciating everything that BHS and EME still do for the game, because they are still making big updates years later. I highly doubt most players thought that the game would still be bringing out large updates the way it is. People may not like all of the changes, but at least the game always seems to have something to work for whether it's grindy or not.

    People can kick for whatever reason they want to kick. Obviously, if the other players agree, there is a good reason. If players just agree to the kick for no reason, that's on them. Some of you may act like you're so above the rest of us, but I don't doubt most of you have kicked players as well. Don't sit there and chastise me for stating an experienced MMO player crying about getting kicked all while stating over and over they didn't know anything about the dungeon is ridiculous. Sure they have a right to cry, but I also have a right to point out their complete hypocrisy.

    I do get that people need a place to cry and vent. However, the irony that most complaining about being kicked will end up kicking others after they learn the dungeon is not lost. In fact, mostly all of you end up as kickers once you learn a dungeon and can pick out the players that have no clue as to what they are doing. Of course, you won't admit it, but yeah, it happens all of the time.

    If you're new and don't feel you should read a guide or watch a video, simply say so in global. Surely all of the people here against kicking will step up and donate their time to help you learn the dungeon.

  • @Jerichow said:

    I remember when I first started, playing 4-6 hours a day just casually going about the game doing quests until I ran into dungeons, running said dungeon a few times, then questing through until the next dungeon, it took me well over a week to hit 65. I think slowing leveling back down to a rate like that for people to actually have time to learn how to play their class would fix more things than it would ever come close to harming.

    I'd rather just there be a more effective method of teaching players their classes than elevating them to max level more or less isolated from the actual demands of the game. Slowing down leveling wouldn't necessarily teach players to git gud it would just delay the inevitable train wreck of reality.
    Having players invest time into leveling is good, but only when they're participating in the community while doing so. Elevating players to endgame content too rapidly makes them especially sensitive to rejection. The problem here is that there is no reason for the "elitist players" to address the issue of the noob's ignorance, the kick suffices to say that they're a noob and nobody cares how lost they are.

    It's a leap of faith that the noob then must take that their woeful lack of preparation is only inexcusable because the preparation required is very simple and straightforward (EZ). Obviously this will appear very toxic to anyone not invested in the TERA community or interested in the eSwag of dungeon running, etc.

    I wonder if it is too late for anyone who isn't already meta to gain anything from playing videogames.
    What's the point in grinding when there's no end in sight?

  • Maldicion159Maldicion159 ✭✭
    edited October 2019

    As for the review I'm disappointed he didn't mention fishing or wait until this patch dropped.
    My criticism of TERA would be that RNG isn't a very engaging when there is no apparent logic to it. Chance is a lot more fun when I can influence it.
    RNG is also taken way too far in terms of gathering node distribution and mobs. There are inaccessible nodes/mobs that are spawned on the side of cliffslopes, stuff that never happened before in TERA.

    Overall player generated content/self writing stories are completely absent from endgame. Everything is contrived and almost stale.

    It is a good game with a bunch of instanced things to do, but none of it is connected and it just begs the question; why?
    I get that I'm grinding for better gear. For more power.
    There are niche things to grab my attention and hold my interest briefly, but it's all spiraling out of the scope of [filtered] I care about.
    Cards! Great I can collect them. And...become more powerful.
    They aren't instanced and rare or serve to duel like playing cards such as Pokemon. They're just a collectible.
    Achievements galore. TERA has wonderful achievements but I'm starting to feel depersonalized by all the hours I've spent playing without feeling anything I can't find in the outside world. I could be spending my time going for adventures throughout the countryside or travelling.
    Enhancement Points: just another system where More Is Better.
    Advanced Skills: More Is Better
    that's the curse of TERA. the only thing it seems to teach is that More Is Better.

    problem solving is only engaged in figuring out what the game designers intend for me to do in order to get More and become Better.
    once I've figured out the most economical grind I might as well turn my brain off and sink my time into it.

  • @Christin said:
    I completely agree. It's time to move on and start appreciating everything that BHS and EME still do for the game, because they are still making big updates years later. I highly doubt most players thought that the game would still be bringing out large updates the way it is. People may not like all of the changes, but at least the game always seems to have something to work for whether it's grindy or not.

    People can kick for whatever reason they want to kick. Obviously, if the other players agree, there is a good reason. If players just agree to the kick for no reason, that's on them. Some of you may act like you're so above the rest of us, but I don't doubt most of you have kicked players as well. Don't sit there and chastise me for stating an experienced MMO player crying about getting kicked all while stating over and over they didn't know anything about the dungeon is ridiculous. Sure they have a right to cry, but I also have a right to point out their complete hypocrisy.

    I do get that people need a place to cry and vent. However, the irony that most complaining about being kicked will end up kicking others after they learn the dungeon is not lost. In fact, mostly all of you end up as kickers once you learn a dungeon and can pick out the players that have no clue as to what they are doing. Of course, you won't admit it, but yeah, it happens all of the time.

    If you're new and don't feel you should read a guide or watch a video, simply say so in global. Surely all of the people here against kicking will step up and donate their time to help you learn the dungeon.

    I wan't going to post in this topic again, but this post is so much bs that I can't help but respond one last time.

    It's like you actually ignored what everyone said for an entire topic and kept on pushing this narrative. People in this thread has brought up how no one - and that includes you, Christin - actually reads guides on leveling dungeons. I'd like you to even find a guide on something like Golden Labs, heck. I can't find the post anymore due to the forum search system, but I still very clearly remember you saying that you did Kallivan's without knowing the dungeon during a Starlyn event, and that's actually an end-game dungeon however low it is.

    The whole thing about us kicking others when they learn the dungeon? As a veteran who has been here during the golden eras of TERA back in 2013-2015, I can tell you horror stories about the people we would find in stuff like Wonderholme (the final raid of its patch) and Rift's Edge (the second final raid of its patch). Both were made so that they can accommodate new players. I was actually running instances back then, and I've seen and complained to my guild about things like a sorcerer that stood in place spamming auto-attack over and over, not bother dodging when he missed mechanics and had bees on him. So he kissed the floor more often and contributed nothing to the raid. Despite the grumbling, we didn't even care to kick him, or the hundreds of other people that under-contributed to an instance. Heck, I've carried an entire party of 5 on Bathysmal Rise NM before, back when that was the end-game at the early days of the level 65 expansion (BHS was pretty bad on instance releases even back then).

    I've taught people mechanics for those on Raid Chat before. Kelsaik Raid 20, when it first released, was constantly full of newbies and people explained mechanics at the start of every run that wasn't a guild run. People explained mechanics in Ravenous Gorge back when that actually mattered, and I remember hosting learning sessions on my priest where I would spend an hour letting new people get hands-on experience with it while I healed them and offered tips. Of course no one did this in true end-game instances; Level 60 Kelsaik's Nest, Manaya's Core, Abscess HM, Kelsaik 10-man, and the likes are legitimate hardest instances that people formed statics to clear. But every instance below them? Newbies abound, explaining mechanics everywhere, and minimal kicking.

    Rather, when people want experienced people, they did a LFG with the "exp" specification and item levels. The ilvl requirements were often silly, granted, but it's nothing like what you are describing here. Contrary to what you may think, we actually did helped out newbies regularly back then. That was when TERA was booming and we had plenty of new players to breathe life into the games, for pretty obvious reasons.

    "Most all of us end up as kickers"? Maybe that's what's happening now, which also coincides with the player pop being what it is. Maybe that's what you did, but don't attribute that to us. Some of us have seen the old days and know what it's like back then.

  • honestly it doesn't matter what update you have on tera.

    When you have a toxic community, the update is rendered useless.

    Just like this new update "Skywatch: Aerial Island" I sincerely give 1 month until this content becomes toxic and ends up destroying.

    EME need to find a way to wipe out the toxic community before making any changes in the game.

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PP597W94LA said:
    honestly it doesn't matter what update you have on tera.

    When you have a toxic community, the update is rendered useless.

    Just like this new update "Skywatch: Aerial Island" I sincerely give 1 month until this content becomes toxic and ends up destroying.

    EME need to find a way to wipe out the toxic community before making any changes in the game.

    calm down hitler

  • edited October 2019

    @CornishRex said:

    @PP597W94LA said:
    honestly it doesn't matter what update you have on tera.

    When you have a toxic community, the update is rendered useless.

    Just like this new update "Skywatch: Aerial Island" I sincerely give 1 month until this content becomes toxic and ends up destroying.

    EME need to find a way to wipe out the toxic community before making any changes in the game.

    calm down hitler

    I think I'll use this invocation of Godwin's Law as the sign that the thread has run its course. This issue is not going to be solved easily anyway as it's very complex and involves both game design and player behavior. I think the various opinions have been clearly expressed over the course of this thread.

This discussion has been closed.