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Can someone explain me why archer will be mid~top tier after update?

2

Comments

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    In short, this buff will put great Archers towards the top, and all other archers in the middle. Biggest problem I see with Archers (or the players themselves) is lack of player skill and just being plain bad. You can throw 15% CR at an OK archer and they will still use poison arrow and attack from the front /side at 18m+ away. Even without the buffs I constantly get top dps with similarly geared or higher geared new/old classes. @op, +15% CR is a huge buff since crit rate is the only thing archers are missing right now.

    If the buff does that then it can be called balance, or a step towards it. Top players of any class should be always at the top because they learned the class and made the effort to be not good, but the best at it. A good archer should out-dps any mediocre *insert new or old class here*. Same with a good sorc, a good warrior, a good zerker. Thing is, the blatant disparity in new classes did hurt the game because, at least in my opinion, no easy class should output better performance than a hard class. And no class should be so ahead of the others.

    In an ideal game, harder to learn classes should reward the player with better performance. More dps, better tanking, better healing. An easy class should have a lower performance ceiling because it's easy to use. So in my opinion, gunner should have been an easier, but less powerful ranged combatant than archer and sorc. Either that or make gunner have a difficulty level somewhere between archer and sorc. Sorc should have been the greatest ranged fighter because it's more complex than archer. In melee, ninja should have been the lowest dps of all melee classes because of it's ridiculously low skill floor and moderate skill ceiling, and brawler should have been the worst tank. BUT, the difference shouldn't be that great. The ceilings of both easy and hard classes shouldn't be so distant from each other because otherwise we'd be seeing the reverse of what we are seeing now.
  • i feel like people are blowing the buff too highly, i mean they will "go up" but not to mid tier at all... they'l go from dead last place (excluding lancer) to maybe up a few ranks
  • I main an archer, though I'll be completely honest in that I don't have a fully informed grasp of every class and their average dps or whatever... there are people who run tests and make charts on that stuff, they would be the better ones to ask for full details. I don't know exactly where the buff will put us in terms of dps vs. other classes. What I can say, though, based on my own personal experience with archer (and my limited experience with other classes) is that archer's biggest shortcoming is lack of crit. Archers can put up really impressive crit numbers that can easily make them competitive with other dps classes. The problem is that many other dps classes tend to crit with much better consistency than archers, which is what makes us bottom tier. In short: if archers crit more often, we will be much more viable. Sure, bad archers will still be bad, but at least this incoming buff will give us decent archers a chance to keep up with decent dps (and it could potentially push the top pro archers up to near top tier status).

    Of course this is all regarding PVE. As the buff only applies vs. monsters. I assume nothing will change for PVP.
  • Don't really expect anywhere close to top tier. Probably slighty below gunner (not considering debuff)
  • PixelatorPixelator ✭✭✭✭
    This buff can be generalized as "Increase archer expected damage to monsters by 20-25%".
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xelity wrote: »
    i feel like people are blowing the buff too highly, i mean they will "go up" but not to mid tier at all... they'l go from dead last place (excluding lancer) to maybe up a few ranks

    You're just not appreciating crit enough. Also, from an average standpoint Archer was not last place, or really even close to it.
  • As far as I can see, and I have 2 archers and running at 300+ crit factor, the 15% crit boost is not going to help. It bothers me that everyone is so crit happy. Hitting like a wet noodle with crits is pointless. Give me a PVE boost to the rapid fire type skills. Boost the base damage so that the crits actually hurt rather than tickling a boss/mob. Why is it ok that a gunner and other rapid fire type skills can hit for 100-250K per hit, but archers on their rapid fires have to be content with 16k -20k crits (this being at full starfall). This is crap and no class should have these number at that level of play,

    I understand all the archers that are saying this is a good thing, IMHO it is Stockholm Syndrome. It is like throwing a starving man a stale/moldy cracker and the man thinking it is the best cracker on the planet.

    Give us a "focus" type skill ..... I will take anything but a 15% crit bonus because it will do ZERO helping those that have already topped out , and is not a buff in any way, shape, or form. It is a [filtered] poor bandage to a much deeper issue. (Essentially, increase the base coefficients and allow them to scale properly with level as opposed to the crap we have now..........and this could be applied to ALL the old classes)
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sampson40k wrote: »
    As far as I can see, and I have 2 archers and running at 300+ crit factor, the 15% crit boost is not going to help. It bothers me that everyone is so crit happy. Hitting like a wet noodle with crits is pointless. Give me a PVE boost to the rapid fire type skills. Boost the base damage so that the crits actually hurt rather than tickling a boss/mob. Why is it ok that a gunner and other rapid fire type skills can hit for 100-250K per hit, but archers on their rapid fires have to be content with 16k -20k crits (this being at full starfall). This is crap and no class should have these number at that level of play,

    I understand all the archers that are saying this is a good thing, IMHO it is Stockholm Syndrome. It is like throwing a starving man a stale/moldy cracker and the man thinking it is the best cracker on the planet.

    Give us a "focus" type skill ..... I will take anything but a 15% crit bonus because it will do ZERO helping those that have already topped out , and is not a buff in any way, shape, or form. It is a [filtered] poor bandage to a much deeper issue. (Essentially, increase the base coefficients and allow them to scale properly with level as opposed to the crap we have now..........and this could be applied to ALL the old classes)

    So far, the only that I suppose can be done for those who have topped out CF is to lower it a little and add power and damage. Sure, may not be enough and it's still only for pve, but I think I've accepted that no matter what NA says, BHS will do whatever they feel to do with the game. So might as well not see it as a Stockholm case and try instead to McGuyver it all with what we have for now.
  • edited July 2016
    siuzi wrote: »
    Why do people complain about archers/sorc and all old classes? They are good, you people just play it wrong.

    "It's not that the classes released specifically to draw revenue from targeted niches are overpowered, it's just that all the people who've mained the same class for 5+ years are playing them wrong." From: Someone with a gunner icon.
  • Sampson40k wrote: »
    As far as I can see, and I have 2 archers and running at 300+ crit factor, the 15% crit boost is not going to help. It bothers me that everyone is so crit happy. Hitting like a wet noodle with crits is pointless. Give me a PVE boost to the rapid fire type skills. Boost the base damage so that the crits actually hurt rather than tickling a boss/mob. Why is it ok that a gunner and other rapid fire type skills can hit for 100-250K per hit, but archers on their rapid fires have to be content with 16k -20k crits (this being at full starfall). This is crap and no class should have these number at that level of play,

    I understand all the archers that are saying this is a good thing, IMHO it is Stockholm Syndrome. It is like throwing a starving man a stale/moldy cracker and the man thinking it is the best cracker on the planet.

    Give us a "focus" type skill ..... I will take anything but a 15% crit bonus because it will do ZERO helping those that have already topped out , and is not a buff in any way, shape, or form. It is a [filtered] poor bandage to a much deeper issue. (Essentially, increase the base coefficients and allow them to scale properly with level as opposed to the crap we have now..........and this could be applied to ALL the old classes)

    I'm happy with it because it will increase the crit rate on skills like RA, which is probably my biggest hitter (RoA is great too, but very dependent on how much the target is moving). Don't get me wrong, RF is a decent filler skill (if you have the ping for it), but I thought archers were meant to be more burst damage than sustained dps. I mean I guess that depends largely on playstyle, a lot of archers go for attack speed / CDR / etc. with a heavy focus on RF for more sustained dps, and in that regard you're right: if you're looking for steady, consistent damage, then this buff probably won't put archers on par with gunners in that regard. But since I tend to focus on burst damage, I welcome any buff that helps my heavy hitters to crit more often.

    Maybe I'm playing archer wrong? Idk. I never claimed to be a pro.

  • Sampson40k wrote: »
    As far as I can see, and I have 2 archers and running at 300+ crit factor, the 15% crit boost is not going to help. It bothers me that everyone is so crit happy. Hitting like a wet noodle with crits is pointless. Give me a PVE boost to the rapid fire type skills. Boost the base damage so that the crits actually hurt rather than tickling a boss/mob. Why is it ok that a gunner and other rapid fire type skills can hit for 100-250K per hit, but archers on their rapid fires have to be content with 16k -20k crits (this being at full starfall). This is crap and no class should have these number at that level of play,

    I understand all the archers that are saying this is a good thing, IMHO it is Stockholm Syndrome. It is like throwing a starving man a stale/moldy cracker and the man thinking it is the best cracker on the planet.

    Give us a "focus" type skill ..... I will take anything but a 15% crit bonus because it will do ZERO helping those that have already topped out , and is not a buff in any way, shape, or form. It is a [filtered] poor bandage to a much deeper issue. (Essentially, increase the base coefficients and allow them to scale properly with level as opposed to the crap we have now..........and this could be applied to ALL the old classes)

    I'm happy with it because it will increase the crit rate on skills like RA, which is probably my biggest hitter (RoA is great too, but very dependent on how much the target is moving). Don't get me wrong, RF is a decent filler skill (if you have the ping for it), but I thought archers were meant to be more burst damage than sustained dps. I mean I guess that depends largely on playstyle, a lot of archers go for attack speed / CDR / etc. with a heavy focus on RF for more sustained dps, and in that regard you're right: if you're looking for steady, consistent damage, then this buff probably won't put archers on par with gunners in that regard. But since I tend to focus on burst damage, I welcome any buff that helps my heavy hitters to crit more often.

    Maybe I'm playing archer wrong? Idk. I never claimed to be a pro.

    I use AV and ReA as filler actually i think AV is easy to replace with the meele stun trap with the PA speed glyph you need only to cancel the animation and then you have the speed buff really useful if you come from eu RF is really hard to use and CDR weap is hard to maximize your dmg, i prefer to use crit dmg
  • DarkomaxDarkomax
    edited July 2016
    Hum, having 300 crit and not even hitting 50% crit chance (or 50-55% with mystic) I would not call that topped out. We have the lowest crit chance among the DPS classes, how is crit not going to help. Hitting like a wet noodle? Almost all archer skills are hard hitting skills, at the cost of a long cast time and guess what, crappy crit chance. And rapid fire, how do you manage to hit 20k per hit ? a full crit Rapid Fire hit for 4M damage.
    And focus is basically sniper's eye.
  • Starbuzz wrote: »
    Oh man archers in PvP are going to hurt Dx

    The new passive for critical applies only to mosnters, not players.
  • archers never meant to be top dps tho. they got a debuff and that brings a lot of dps to their team already. the buff is welcomed, but dont expect to be top dps class when you got that super nice debuff for your team.
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