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How good are lancers now?
I have a lancer that is level 60 from back in the day, and considering bringing her up to 65.
I know lancers recently got a nice buff, how are they in comparison to brawlers? (Not even gonna bother comparing them to warriors/zerks).
Brawlers also have considerable DPS, how is lancer dps these days?
I'm asking primarily about PvE, but would also like some input on PvP.
Thank you! :chuffed:
I know lancers recently got a nice buff, how are they in comparison to brawlers? (Not even gonna bother comparing them to warriors/zerks).
Brawlers also have considerable DPS, how is lancer dps these days?
I'm asking primarily about PvE, but would also like some input on PvP.
Thank you! :chuffed:
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Comments
Same as, if a bad player is behind that brawler, yeah, you have ping pong aggro.
So it's more about... are you a good player? Then you can pick whatever is more fun for you.
Add in the previous Lancer support and Lancers are actually alright.
Just to give an idea: Let's say when I run sshm with a mystic + priest comp, my dps is usually about ~30-40 percent at the bosses which I think is pretty good for a lancer. For lancer to get this kind of number though, they would need a good party for it. I'm still testing things but with the new HTL change, I noticed a massive dps boost on my lancer.
With full debuffs to a boss including adrenaline rush + guardian shout + enrage status + quatre brooch + 10 stacks of hold the line, I've seen my wallop reach 4.9m at last boss in sshm. My eyes popped open when I seen that number. Spring attacks at 1.4m and shield counter 1.1m.
If I'm at my best and have a really really good party, I've seen myself reaching ~800k/s-1m at some bosses. On a normal day in lazy runs I do around 550k/s-750k/s depending on party make up. I think lancer can do a lot more but don't know really. I use +15 starfall with double energetic III with attack speed on top line so I miss some damage there. I know some lancers probably go with double enraged instead, which I don't have since I favor the speed setup to maximize the ease of keeping HTL since last patch.
I think it's hard to answer at times if lancers are good. It mostly will depend on the player itself just like a player playing brawler or any other class. Lancer would be better if brawler cannot keep growing fury.
PVE = Brawler is still better than lancer. Brawler is still easier. Brawler got better utility. Much easier and faster for clearing mobs and adds. Brawler's Iframe is 100x times better than lancer. Brawler's shout is much better than Lancer's. Lancer gets sux, if the boss doesn't attack much.
Lancer is still somewhat more fun to play than Brawler. Lancer depends on low ping like 30~60ms. Lancer with 120 ping is already not good for pvp. Slower reaction in pve, too.
But, only 20 sec buff? Beside, many N/A players got 100~200 ms ping. Attack speed depends on ping. Under high ping, benefit from extra attack speed isn't too much. It's better to buff damage on monster from 5% to 15~20%.
I would say that Lancers right now are not in a bad spot, but neither in a good one. The release of Brawlers was the biggest hit that we people who main Lancers could take. I will admit, Brawler is superior in so many aspects. They do a lot more damage than a pure dps class, which to me is completely wrong, and in PvP, they rule it with their constant knock ups.
Now, i will speak on the PvE side cause thats what i do mainly, i hardly PvP, just a little now that i have started to get into it again.
The pros of a lancer are the party support they provide. Currently lancers provide a boost of endurance and damage with Guardian Shout, and a boost of attack speed and some damage with Adrenaline Rush. They also have Debilitate, which is stronger than Jackhammer (12% against 8%)
The main issue i think lies in how easy is to play a Brawler vs a Lancer. Brawlers are easy to play and come with a big return. They do tons of damage, which makes the run much faster, and that is the reason why people prefer them over a Lancer. A fully geared Dreadnaught +12 Brawler does a lot more damage than a full +15 Starfall Lancer, heck it even does more damage than many pure DPS classes. Despite some nerfs done to the Brawler (growing fury crit rate from 50 to 30) its still a better choice of a tank for people nowadays. Lancers unfortunately have been getting minor changes on each patch, always getting the short end of the stick, and ultimately, left in the shadows. If BHS doesn't do anything to revive Lancers and put them back in their feet, eventually no one will want a Lancer as a tank.
There is only a few good lancers around that can make up for their lack of damage compared to the Brawler, with their skill as a player. If the player behind the Lancer is really good at it, then there won't be that much difference. in how fast the run goes.
At the moment, we lancers have to constantly keep up Guardian Shout and Adrenaline rush so the damage can be comparable to Brawler.
My hopes lie in BHS staying true to their word of putting much more attention to the original classes, rather than focusing on newer ones. They have started this process already by completely revamping the Sorcerer, which in my opinion, was the class that needed a revam the most out of all the pure DPS classes. A revamp of Lancer definitely would be welcomed by everyone, cause not only this will make players more interested in Lancer, but it would also mean that DPS players would welcome them just as much as they welcome a Brawler.
My experience, i am skilled in all dungeons, and I'm competent enough, i have the gear, and yet, people that look for a tank for hours reject me and stay looking for hours until a brawler shows up.
Just my 2 cents.
If your party got high ping ninja ->Brawler
My high ping ninja fd said, when there is lancer in party and use the team buff, his FA gonna desync, only hit first 2hit, and miss last hit.
Team dungeon - Definitely lancer, if you pop guardian shout and adrenaline rush the team damage pretty much go beast mode.
Long story short, brawler pumps more dps as an individual while lancer help the team pump out higher dps
PVP - it really depends, but with the recent nerf if you want a clean kill go with lancer. My wallop does 25k flat no crit, around 50k frontal crit and with a savage up to 75k-80k from rear, pretty steady damage to finish people off. Brawler got nerfed pretty hard in PVP all you do now is keeping people airborne and other people will get the kills instead of you, brawler simply lack the explosive power lancer has in PVP to secure a kill.
Lancer as per the dungeon PVE, your buff also helps the entire team pump out higher damage, higher resistance with guardian shout, and rallying shout to keep them safe from knockdowns, at current state I would say go lancer full power.
But again, same applies to the scale of pvp, the smaller your teams are, the better brawler is.
The bigger your team is, the better lancer becomes.
One thing to note is that shield counter has got a major buff and now pretty much gurantees crits.
I would say that right now, a very skillful lancer with on point rotations, good adrenaline/gshout coordination, and consistent 10 stack HTL uptime will beat out Brawler, hands down.
I think most people that look for a tank, will look for either brawler or lancer. I feel there are always lack of good tanks at peak times sometimes and people always want the best whether it's lancer or brawler as long as it's smooth run. I always feel on my lancer I'm stretched thin at times, whether it's my friends, guilds or people I know always ask me to tank stuff lol.
The buffs we got are really nice. Having to wait for 1 year + for this was rewarding for me as patient as I was. Playing last year when lancers were seriously in need of buffs, I'm sure the people who play lancer back then knows what I'm talking about. Challenging class but rewarding. I feel we have been rewarded.
@PeDoodly - This is how I feel as well. That lancers can out dps brawlers given that they keep up HTL, rotations, GS, and other stuff. I have seen myself out dps some good brawlers at certain bosses lately. How I know is when I run on my gunner or ninja when they tank, whatever they do, usually my numbers are somewhat higher on my lancer at those bosses. I wonder is it because they don't keep up GF as much as they can? Some of it may also depend on party members debuffs and situations as well. I still think brawlers do really great as long as GF up time is there most of the fight.
lol 1 minute would be nice but I think everyone would have to use a lot of mp pots for that stretch. And yes good ping is a huge dependency on this. And not all classes will have cd reduction etchings and stuff so they will find themselves trying to find a filler skill in their rotations lol.