Reaper

BusinessCat · July 2016

the never ending nerf cycle...

GlitchyTrash · July 2016

@Keti You say NA Tera like it's inferior to somewhere else, but based off of the videos we get from the other servers we have seen how poorly the other server's reapers play.

I agree with you on basically everything (nothing has been as bad as reapers release in PvP) except animation locks. Outside of the blocking classes who can block cancel obviously, reapers have the easiest time with animation lock since basically all their skills are so fast and can be dodged out of.

Keti · July 2016

While they can dodge out of a lot of their stuff, If they get straight interrupted they have a hard time starting again. They need a sort of momentum to keep having an impact, so quick CCS like Archer staggers or warrior backstab while they're mid sundering or something can really really mess with that.

As for level of play elsewhere, idk. But I know the general population of NA tera is not very effective in pvp, especially when it comes to pressuring a high risk \ high reward threat like a reaper. It's very common for reapers to get ignored and get to go full bananas. I've seen it plenty playing as and against reaper, if you put pressure on them they won't get the scary skills off at all, but if you forget them you'll get destroyed.

@NarcissaEvo - You seem to be the toxic one here. Pvp is part of the game they need to balance around. It exists in many forms so this is obviously the case.

navjack27 · July 2016

yeah @Keti i've seen that in battlegrounds. getting ignored by healers. having one damn thing screw up my chain of attacks. getting stunned and then knocked down then backcritted... reapers are glass cannons, but not everyone knows what that is. i can burst damage like 90-120k if i'm allowed to

vkobe · July 2016

Nektor wrote: »

forget it, they aren't nerfing reaper period. You that think brawlers and ninjas are broken never saw reapers at the begging. Your brawlers gonna get nerfed to nothing, ninjas will be dusting on character screens soon enough. Reapers will stay one of the top dps and newcomers will make topics on forum 'nerf reaper'

we already did thread nerf reaper, so when we see bhs buff reaper we all laugh

i dont remember reaper damage cs or kumasylum as gunner and brawler did and if i remember at reaper released it was the lancer the pvp champion class

Keti · July 2016

Yes reaper is great at dealing with melee classes that aren't warrior. It's mainly up to warriors and ranged classes to keep them in check. And while they can dodge out skills, it still prevents them from doing damage and usually puts the skill on cd. Most other classes by then would have gotten a hitbox out and then dodged. I think the undisruptable aids shuriken ninjas throw is a lot more dangerous than whipsaw for this reason, no risk or commitment.

It's silly to try to list tools because every class besides zerker has way too many. But the main thing about reaper is their forced commitment along with long animations. They generally have to do a combo to burst, so they're very predictable with their 5 skills and if you make them dodge mid combo then they've wasted combo starters doing minimal damage. Most other classes are a lot more reliable with their damage or do it faster, reaper shares in both weaknesses as payment for their massive hitboxes. If allowed to cast their cc is huge along with the damage, especially if they have shadow reaping.

Snowpiss · July 2016

voidy wrote: »

Can't help but agree. In PvE I don't mind so much because they're on my side and it never hurts to have a powerful ally. But in PvP it's ridiculous. Here is a class that ...
a) can utilize multiple stuns/debuffs
b) can stagger the enemy like crazy
c) can iframe and gain a positional advantage using retribution
d) can turn invisible
e) attacks so quickly that onlookers seriously ask if they're chugging speed boosts/rootbeers
f) has long range attacks that hurt quite a bit despite being a melee class
g) has big sweeping aoe staggers
h) has a lot of raw strength, so everything they hit you with takes a chunk of hp
i) is cute

Why even play anything else at this point, seriously. Maybe I'll make a reaper too.

[filtered], even in PvE it's pretty annoying watching them spam off the same strong attack again and again, but the devs have allowed them to do that. The devs weren't thinking; they just wanted their cute loli class to be on top again instead of ~just~ in the top four, so they made it powerful as all get out. I know a bunch of reapers, and none of them had any complaints before this patch because they were doing fine. If anything I'd get one guy complaining when the boss turned, but -- wow -- good thing you're a mobile melee class that can deal with that sort of thing easily. Now it's just over the top.

Meanwhile, no one even plays vanilla classes anymore because what's the point? Aside from a month or two where BHS decides to buff one of them, there's really no point. Most of the older classes feel so bad compared to the newer ones. As if they were developed by a different and inexperienced team, for a totally different game than the one that currently exists. Slayer has all kinds of bugs and desyncs associated with it that no one is working to fix. Berserker is so reliant on RNG crits to deal damage that you have to boost your crit factor past 250 and even that's not enough with the way the devs keep boosting everything's crit resist. Warrior is complicated as [filtered] and doesn't even deal amazing damage as a reward for mastering its rotation, not to mention ninja basically stole its role as the mobile fast-attacking thief class. Sorc's mana hungry, relatively complicated, and if the boss turns or you don't crit then byebye dps. The only vanilla classes that are in a comparatively good place (and by this, I mean the only vanilla classes I still see regularly in IMS and LFG) at the moment, in my eyes at least, are archers, lancers, mystics, and maybe priests. And wow look at that, 3/4 of those aren't there for their DPS and the one that is just got a buff that gives it more crits, what a shock. Then you've got ninjas, who are strong, fast, mobile, and basically never need mana. Reapers who we've already discussed. Gunners ... who, admittedly, I rarely see anymore. And Brawlers, who are STILL great tanks despite all the nerfs thrown at them, which just shows how OP they've been.

Sorry, needed to rant. This game's great and all, but class balance is so [filtered] here. It's like they're trying to make people quit sometimes with how bad it gets. Nerfing zerk's thunder strike in pvp but giving it a boost in pve like that's some kind of balanced tradeoff, because it's so important that we keep things balanced when it comes to buffing vanilla classes, whilst simultaneously handing reaper speed, power, and mobility all in a neat little box and letting them just wreck everything. It's so bad. So bad.

As a long time slayer main, this hits home really hard. I'm in +15 SF and it is frustrating as all get out when I 'try hard' and run a HM instance with slaying/fury strike build with a sweat rag taped to my forehead while reapers, brawlers, and ninjas still pull at least 2x more dps than me. It really makes me feel that I've been cheated of my time and efforts- all that time spent on trying to improve a class that just gets more and more obsolete as time goes on, while newer classes that keep on raising the dps bar get released.

Whenever I see videos of ninjas just doing 30m+ dmg with fire avalanche, it just makes me salty as hell. "Oh no, we can't give slayers 30 power during ICB because that is too OP, so we'll only give them 29. And then we'll randomize the UOHS buff % so that 80% of the time they will barely get a dmg increase during ICB. On a side note, lets give ninjas a skill that does 30m+ dmg."

Keti · July 2016

Pre Archer buff I was getting doubled damaged by the aforementioned classes.

The difference is my Archer uses a tensus weapon rolled for PvP. If you're in +15 and someone is doubling your damage, you shouldn't be blaming class balance.

Darkshneider · July 2016

TheGreyWolf wrote: »

Felhammer wrote: »

Nerf* can't spell properly hue

Nah you had it right the first time. The class needs a nerd. All classes need a nerd. An unbiased nerd to come in and properly assess every class and balance them accordingly, using maths. And science.

this made my night thanks xXDD

Daedraz · July 2016

Keti wrote: »

Pre Archer buff I was getting doubled damaged by the aforementioned classes.

The difference is my Archer uses a tensus weapon rolled for PvP. If you're in +15 and someone is doubling your damage, you shouldn't be blaming class balance.

Then you've been playing with some of the worse ninjas, reapers, and brawlers in the game. A good player that knows the ins and outs of ninja/brawler/reaper/gunner will always outdps a good player that knows the ins and outs of old classes by a big margin.

In a 2 healer party, old classes are lucky if they can pull off more than 1.5m/s on nightmare imperator, while ninjas and brawlers are pulling 2-3m/s on average. Reapers and gunners are doing 1.5-2m/s as well. The empirical data for NA region on teradps website shows this. Even with the introduction of the crit buffs, archers are not getting more than 1.4m/s on nightmare imperator, while the highest recorded ninja dps i've seen so far is 3.4m/s.

But honestly,I don't really care too much or find it particularly frustrating that newclasses outdps old classes by big margins. At the end of the day, old classes will still have enough dps to get the dungeon finished in a timely manner. Doing like 1-2m/s less dps is like "oh noes our dungeon run took a few minutes longer, the apocalypse is here."

Keti · July 2016

Yeah PvE class balance only truly matters relative to the dungeons. Of course due to the nature of tera, pvp can break extremely fast when there's an outlier, such as every single new class release, 65 patch slayer, conjunct lancer, etc.

Daedraz · July 2016

CarnalCherry145 wrote: »

Snowpiss wrote: »

voidy wrote: »

Can't help but agree. In PvE I don't mind so much because they're on my side and it never hurts to have a powerful ally. But in PvP it's ridiculous. Here is a class that ...
a) can utilize multiple stuns/debuffs
b) can stagger the enemy like crazy
c) can iframe and gain a positional advantage using retribution
d) can turn invisible
e) attacks so quickly that onlookers seriously ask if they're chugging speed boosts/rootbeers
f) has long range attacks that hurt quite a bit despite being a melee class
g) has big sweeping aoe staggers
h) has a lot of raw strength, so everything they hit you with takes a chunk of hp
i) is cute

Why even play anything else at this point, seriously. Maybe I'll make a reaper too.

[filtered], even in PvE it's pretty annoying watching them spam off the same strong attack again and again, but the devs have allowed them to do that. The devs weren't thinking; they just wanted their cute loli class to be on top again instead of ~just~ in the top four, so they made it powerful as all get out. I know a bunch of reapers, and none of them had any complaints before this patch because they were doing fine. If anything I'd get one guy complaining when the boss turned, but -- wow -- good thing you're a mobile melee class that can deal with that sort of thing easily. Now it's just over the top.

Meanwhile, no one even plays vanilla classes anymore because what's the point? Aside from a month or two where BHS decides to buff one of them, there's really no point. Most of the older classes feel so bad compared to the newer ones. As if they were developed by a different and inexperienced team, for a totally different game than the one that currently exists. Slayer has all kinds of bugs and desyncs associated with it that no one is working to fix. Berserker is so reliant on RNG crits to deal damage that you have to boost your crit factor past 250 and even that's not enough with the way the devs keep boosting everything's crit resist. Warrior is complicated as [filtered] and doesn't even deal amazing damage as a reward for mastering its rotation, not to mention ninja basically stole its role as the mobile fast-attacking thief class. Sorc's mana hungry, relatively complicated, and if the boss turns or you don't crit then byebye dps. The only vanilla classes that are in a comparatively good place (and by this, I mean the only vanilla classes I still see regularly in IMS and LFG) at the moment, in my eyes at least, are archers, lancers, mystics, and maybe priests. And wow look at that, 3/4 of those aren't there for their DPS and the one that is just got a buff that gives it more crits, what a shock. Then you've got ninjas, who are strong, fast, mobile, and basically never need mana. Reapers who we've already discussed. Gunners ... who, admittedly, I rarely see anymore. And Brawlers, who are STILL great tanks despite all the nerfs thrown at them, which just shows how OP they've been.

Sorry, needed to rant. This game's great and all, but class balance is so [filtered] here. It's like they're trying to make people quit sometimes with how bad it gets. Nerfing zerk's thunder strike in pvp but giving it a boost in pve like that's some kind of balanced tradeoff, because it's so important that we keep things balanced when it comes to buffing vanilla classes, whilst simultaneously handing reaper speed, power, and mobility all in a neat little box and letting them just wreck everything. It's so bad. So bad.

As a long time slayer main, this hits home really hard. I'm in +15 SF and it is frustrating as all get out when I 'try hard' and run a HM instance with slaying/fury strike build with a sweat rag taped to my forehead while reapers, brawlers, and ninjas still pull at least 2x more dps than me. It really makes me feel that I've been cheated of my time and efforts- all that time spent on trying to improve a class that just gets more and more obsolete as time goes on, while newer classes that keep on raising the dps bar get released.

Whenever I see videos of ninjas just doing 30m+ dmg with fire avalanche, it just makes me salty as [filtered]. "Oh no, we can't give slayers 30 power during ICB because that is too OP, so we'll only give them 29. And then we'll randomize the UOHS buff % so that 80% of the time they will barely get a dmg increase during ICB. On a side note, lets give ninjas a skill that does 30m+ dmg."

I completely agree with you, as a person who mains a slayer, and people bashing on slayers considering how they are the only *buffed* class from all the old classes. Buffed and compared to what ? Of course slayers were buffed, they were licking the bottom of the barrel for the longest of time.
And it is truly sad... while I am sweating here trying my best, some ninja / reaper / gunner ( wont even discuss brawlers ) does more dps than me having worse gear, laughs it up in my face and tells me I am a bad dps... it makes me salty as [filtered]...

Well thankfully you don't have to remain salty for much longer. Bluehole has said that they are committed to revamping the older classes so that their dps will be comparable to the newer classes. Sorc revamps are taking place first since they have been at the bottom of the totem pole for ages. I think the dev notes say that they will begin working on slayer and zerk revamps starting from this August, although nobody knows what the heck they have in mind.

Nopi · July 2016

I personally hate this whole power creep where everything has to go up. There have been few nerfs, but generally everything has been getting buff after buff whenever a new super strong class comes. I also hate that the easier to play classes have the best performance when it shouldn't be like that. I mean, it's an easier class and yet it gets better performance than a class you pretty much need to study rocket science to make it work? Gawd, I'd die happy if I could make my sorc perform as well as my ninja with the amount of work I've invested learning said ninja. Which to tell you the truth, is much less work than what I've invested in TRYING to learn sorc and failing at it miserably.

What else does BHS or whoever keeps requesting or designing these new classes want? The game playing for them? Bosses dying just by their mere visage? Will that be the new class? Someone who kills stuff just by standing there and showing elin panties? (because to slap us in the face they may also make it elin locked yet again) Where has the effort = reward concept gone?

I ask this but I well know, or at least can assume without much fear of being wrong, that all I said above is how it is because or money. Revenue. The game wouldn't sell well if they keep adding more difficult to use classes. The game has been catered to casuals who will spend money only if they get an easy time. Sure I don't blame the casuals. If it's there, they will play it. And I can't even blame the devs for seeing a trend and trying to stay afloat in the business because of it. So as disappointing as it can be in the end, it's our choice to keep with it or move on.

Reaper

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