Champion's Skyring should count more for crusade rankings

MorningCoffee · May 2016

KanekoCos wrote: »

MorningCoffee wrote: »

I think it should be team Skyring if anything. That way, you can actually have multiple people from the same guild participating on the same team.

Also, now that obtaining Starfall isn't literally the worst thing to do for PvPers (thanks to mats in BC/KS shops,) gear wouldn't necessarily be such a hurdle.

Besides, there needs to be a reason to get PvP gear for all (end-game) BGs, IMO.

The issue with just making it the team queue is that some people only queue with the solo queue because they might not have geared enough friends or guildies to use the team queue.

In my experience, I've literally only used the team queue once because I didn't have any one to do Team 3's with. And not to mention it'll just make it that much easier to feed, like how MildLife mentioned above.

Not having gear isn't really an excuse IMO. Not like PvE crusades equalizes gear for you.

The feeding thing is an issue though, I agree. Would be nice if there was a replay option or something that makes matches more transparent. Guilds that abuse crusades should simply be barred from participating for like 2 cycles or something, with guild master + participating members penalized somehow.

Shimamochi · May 2016

Sawao wrote: »

Remove GvG from Crusade = ez.

Best thing to do tbh

PlagueFWC · May 2016

Borsuc wrote: »

EU's team 3v3 (premade) is open from 7 PM till 11 (or midnight, on weekend) and it is equalized with Fraywind EQ gear (but Skyring solo earrings, for stun reduction) based on suggestions from players. This combination made it super active last season because it was literally 99% dead before and EU is in way poorer shape than NA regarding rewards (we still have 20k niveots, 100k dyad, for KS shop, and no boxes etc). The top teams ended with close to 1800 rating, where before max was around 1400.

Unfortunately game keeps dying and GM won't add more rewards to PvP until ninja patch, now it's kinda dead but even soloq is sort of dead except on few days. (when they are both active, for premade it's like 1min queues tho). Still hope we get your rewards scaled for EU economy, though.

If you're worried about feeding you should do what EU did, imo. Restrict time frames first of all. This would make people queue up during a limited time availability, ensuring more queues (similar to how Nexus gathered people in one spot). As well, "highest skill form of PvP" should be equalized, I'd rather have crappy BGs like Gridiron uneq since they have gimmicks anyway so who cares of imbalance. Blade & Soul got it properly with 1v1/3v3 eq and mass BGs uneq, especially since they have real tournaments. (Skyring Slam is nothing in comparison)

- EU player's opinion

Problem being that NA has a lot more players from different timezones

Shimamochi · May 2016

MorningCoffee wrote: »

KanekoCos wrote: »

MorningCoffee wrote: »

I think it should be team Skyring if anything. That way, you can actually have multiple people from the same guild participating on the same team.

Also, now that obtaining Starfall isn't literally the worst thing to do for PvPers (thanks to mats in BC/KS shops,) gear wouldn't necessarily be such a hurdle.

Besides, there needs to be a reason to get PvP gear for all (end-game) BGs, IMO.

The issue with just making it the team queue is that some people only queue with the solo queue because they might not have geared enough friends or guildies to use the team queue.

In my experience, I've literally only used the team queue once because I didn't have any one to do Team 3's with. And not to mention it'll just make it that much easier to feed, like how MildLife mentioned above.

Not having gear isn't really an excuse IMO. Not like PvE crusades equalizes gear for you.

The feeding thing is an issue though, I agree. Would be nice if there was a replay option or something that makes matches more transparent. Guilds that abuse crusades should simply be barred from participating for like 2 cycles or something, with guild master + participating members penalized somehow.

Maybe gear is not an excuse, but my point was, not everyone has the resources to queue Team 3's. Regardless of gear status. You still need geared friends who you trust to queue with you.

So new transfers to a server, new pvp players trying to learn how do do 3v3's, guildless people who cannot find a guild that does team 3's, etc etc etc.......solo queue is good for these types of people.

As for feeding in skyring......it doesn't seem like a huge issue atm? Honestly. seems like most people in the top 10 rankings on each server have simply earned their stripes. In my experience, the most feeding in the crusades happens in GvGs....not Champion's Skyring.

Shimamochi · May 2016

Also I honestly think it's a lot easier to succeed in the PVE crusade and PVE content with mid tier gear (Dreadnaught) than in the PVP crusade. LOL

PvE content doesn't need equalized gear, and it's a lot easier to complete PvE content in Dread gear than PvP content. (Unless you're just good at PvP and can avoid getting blasted in the back by a full +15 Starfall DPS.....that is if someone else doesn't stagger, pull, or stun you into anything) But considering that most unequalized battleground are group PvP oriented.........it's very hard to not get [filtered]. At least in PvE, you'll be able to take a few hits and facetank a little or knock back a health pot or two before your priest pops kaia's and heals you LOL

But that's just me, what do I know? I'm just a PvP hero. You can say that I'm wrong in a lot of aspects (and you're probably right). But that's just my 2 cents.

Shimamochi · May 2016

Either way, we're missing the point here and going off on a different tangent.

Feeding can happen in any battleground. Even in CS or Grid, or FWC.

But it doesn't change the fact that it's criminal that CS, a battleground that includes low leveled players and that's not exactly entirely pvp focused, ranks higher than Champion's Skying and even Fraywind on the crusades.

Actual PvP content starts at level 65 and our crusades should reflect that just as it does for the PvE crusade.

Borsuc · May 2016

Last Skyring Slam people were queuing without the actual tournament on the server just to have some fun. Guess why they did it on the server instead of their normal servers? Sure, the main reason is because a lot of teams were available but one of the reasons is because the gear was equalized. Equalized gear isn't about the "bad" gear you hate, you guys are narrow minded. Real competitive players just play with what they are given and abide by the rules. The point here is not the fact that the gear has X stat or lacks Y stat, it's the fact that it is FAIR PLAY. For example, your healer may starve of mana because of the gear, but so does the enemy healer, so it's fair play, just a different meta. (and honestly more interesting than 6 res per round with lancer/priest comp in normal gear since he can just dodge plague and go back to ressing)

Now of course to apply it to the whole crusade thing, the reason is because you're clueless how it actually impacts the skyring community.

The fact is that EVEN WITH equalized gear, the skill level difference between different teams is very large. This is undeniable and experienced first hand on EU (while you guys have no exp with it). Now, obviously this divides teams based on skill almost (I say almost, because there's still dyads and glyphs that aren't equalized, and some can make a big difference).

Yes, higher skilled teams can win with weaker stats against lesser skilled teams, but who is more likely to have the higher stats in the first place? Guess what? If they farm it purely through PvP, then it's the HIGHER SKILLED teams who also have BETTER STATS/GEAR.

Which results not only in the skill difference, but also gear difference on top of it. Making the lesser skilled teams even worse off, and they ragequit cause what's the point to lose because of gear? They already lose because of skill, which is discouraging enough but at least they don't need to farm skill, they need to practice for it. Rewarding winners always compounds this problem as long as gear difference exists. Sure, it gives incentive to win, but it gives incentive for losers to ragequit even more, since they already lost and that IS a punishment by itself ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL (i.e if it was fair play).

So no, it's not like certain clueless mugatos like kamizuma say that he needs gear advantage to cover for his higher ping (in an old thread on old forums). Whether joke or not, it's the lower ping who usually have better gear since they can play the game better in the first place (if they are PvP heads, not market players like him). So this widens the gap even more, makes it even worse off, not better.

Look, dyads already make a big difference in regards to mana on certain classes. And that is with gear being eq. Who are you fooling that it doesn't matter? In Skyring, even a simple 10% total difference is huge, because once you die, it's game over. Even 1 HP versus 0 HP is a huge difference and determines win vs loss. Or once you kill the enemy, same thing. There is no second chance here, there is no "outsmarting" with "objectives" or getting carried by your teammates after you die like in FWC. (unless res happens but w/e). (and don't start with people having to farm FWC for skyring, it should be the other way around, and FWC teaches you nothing about skyring, even Kenny hates it; most skyring players are totally different, and I know I'm one of them I play this game 90% just for skyring)

The other thing is that people want to play ALTS in premade. In fact, higher rated teams usually have few matches due to rating, so instead of waiting and getting bored they go and play alts until others catch up. In fact it is one of the reasons it was so lively in EU, despite the lackluster community. Gear is yet another obstacle to fun here, it's a detriment to the entire mode, simple as that. There IS a reason BnS is the complete opposite, it's not just because they wanted to be different, it's because they did it properly.

Now I did mention about rewarding winners with more rewards, same applies to Crusade ranking. Rewarding people who already have gear or are good in skyring will only widen the gap more, because it's the people who lose who need it. I understand that you cannot reward losers, because it would encourage people to play bad, I am fully aware of it. However, if winning did not give advantage in skyring itself (but only outside of it), then it would be better off, which means FAIR PLAY, so equalize it. Think about Murderous Intent. The buff itself did not work in skyring, yet it was a great reward by design.

And anyway the number one rule in all competitive sports (electronic or not) is fair play. I don't think I need to explain how important this is or how it is the very foundation of it. And at least we can agree skyring is the most competitive environment right? (PvP-wise)

But clearly you're all just theory crafting while Skyring Slam and EU's premade eq event proved the opposite, so think what you want, w/e. I just felt I had to post it as my duty to inform you guys of how it went in EU. Think of it as a successful experiment.

Shimamochi · May 2016

Borsuc wrote: »

Last Skyring Slam people were queuing without the actual tournament on the server just to have some fun. Guess why they did it on the server instead of their normal servers? Sure, the main reason is because a lot of teams were available but one of the reasons is because the gear was equalized. Equalized gear isn't about the "bad" gear you hate, you guys are narrow minded. Real competitive players just play with what they are given and abide by the rules. The point here is not the fact that the gear has X stat or lacks Y stat, it's the fact that it is FAIR PLAY. For example, your healer may starve of mana because of the gear, but so does the enemy healer, so it's fair play, just a different meta. (and honestly more interesting than 6 res per round with lancer/priest comp in normal gear since he can just dodge plague and go back to ressing)

Now of course to apply it to the whole crusade thing, the reason is because you're clueless how it actually impacts the skyring community.

The fact is that EVEN WITH equalized gear, the skill level difference between different teams is very large. This is undeniable and experienced first hand on EU (while you guys have no exp with it). Now, obviously this divides teams based on skill almost (I say almost, because there's still dyads and glyphs that aren't equalized, and some can make a big difference).

Yes, higher skilled teams can win with weaker stats against lesser skilled teams, but who is more likely to have the higher stats in the first place? Guess what? If they farm it purely through PvP, then it's the HIGHER SKILLED teams who also have BETTER STATS/GEAR.

Which results not only in the skill difference, but also gear difference on top of it. Making the lesser skilled teams even worse off, and they ragequit cause what's the point to lose because of gear? They already lose because of skill, which is discouraging enough but at least they don't need to farm skill, they need to practice for it. Rewarding winners always compounds this problem as long as gear difference exists. Sure, it gives incentive to win, but it gives incentive for losers to ragequit even more, since they already lost and that IS a punishment by itself ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL (i.e if it was fair play).

So no, it's not like certain clueless mugatos like kamizuma say that he needs gear advantage to cover for his higher ping (in an old thread on old forums). Whether joke or not, it's the lower ping who usually have better gear since they can play the game better in the first place (if they are PvP heads, not market players like him). So this widens the gap even more, makes it even worse off, not better.

Look, dyads already make a big difference in regards to mana on certain classes. And that is with gear being eq. Who are you fooling that it doesn't matter? In Skyring, even a simple 10% total difference is huge, because once you die, it's game over. Even 1 HP versus 0 HP is a huge difference and determines win vs loss. Or once you kill the enemy, same thing. There is no second chance here, there is no "outsmarting" with "objectives" or getting carried by your teammates after you die like in FWC. (unless res happens but w/e). (and don't start with people having to farm FWC for skyring, it should be the other way around, and FWC teaches you nothing about skyring, even Kenny hates it; most skyring players are totally different, and I know I'm one of them I play this game 90% just for skyring)

The other thing is that people want to play ALTS in premade. In fact, higher rated teams usually have few matches due to rating, so instead of waiting and getting bored they go and play alts until others catch up. In fact it is one of the reasons it was so lively in EU, despite the lackluster community. Gear is yet another obstacle to fun here, it's a detriment to the entire mode, simple as that. There IS a reason BnS is the complete opposite, it's not just because they wanted to be different, it's because they did it properly.

Now I did mention about rewarding winners with more rewards, same applies to Crusade ranking. Rewarding people who already have gear or are good in skyring will only widen the gap more, because it's the people who lose who need it. I understand that you cannot reward losers, because it would encourage people to play bad, I am fully aware of it. However, if winning did not give advantage in skyring itself (but only outside of it), then it would be better off, which means FAIR PLAY, so equalize it. Think about Murderous Intent. The buff itself did not work in skyring, yet it was a great reward by design.

And anyway the number one rule in all competitive sports (electronic or not) is fair play. I don't think I need to explain how important this is or how it is the very foundation of it. And at least we can agree skyring is the most competitive environment right? (PvP-wise)

But clearly you're all just theory crafting while Skyring Slam and EU's premade eq event proved the opposite, so think what you want, w/e. I just felt I had to post it as my duty to inform you guys of how it went in EU. Think of it as a successful experiment.

Hitting a lot of nails on the head there, kudos to you. XD ..........speaking of, what the hell EME? Why haven't we had anymore Skyring Slams?

But anyways........a lot of what you said proves my point. There is a lot of skill involved in Skyring and it's honestly the most competitive PvP battleground in the game.......then why does it rank so low in the crusades? GvGs hardly even happen anymore (except maybe in MT), but the GvGs ratings count the most towards crusade rankings.

Champion's Skyring should count more for crusade rankings

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