Please make leveling train players how to play!

DesuBean · July 2016

Damoniq wrote: »

I come from the game "blade & soul" so these "chains" I'm actually used to from there lol
it's diff there in a way that if there's a skill the boss bout to cast and you need use one of your defensive/evasive moves to survive ... the evasive/defensive skill pops up on the screen and all you need to do is click SPACE to activate it, it's quite useful... maybe they should create somethin similar here since the brawler and ninja classes were "stolen" from blade&soul just slightly different on skills but certain skills are like "copy-paste" from blade&soul lol

Stolen?
Tera did it first.

Nopi · July 2016

BnS is almost as old as Tera. And Tera ninja and brawler are pretty new, so I'd agree that BnS might have pulled some of the moves on both variants first, but none are really fully original considering action and fighting games are much older than these mmos.

Aside of that, I believe we as a community won't be completely on the same page about how to have new players learn the game, so for now the only option is to keep kicking them from party when they don't perform as expected at end game dungeons and force them to learn from there. Basically the game system pretty much left newbies to fend for themselves and for veterans to weed them out.

Minazuki · July 2016

Most 5men low lv dungeons were soloable even back when 2012 as long as you have the gear/skill
The issue is on +0 and +9 ( or maybe +12 rich player ) gear just way too huge gap for low level.

HK37AYPJ74 · July 2016

I offer tips about crystals, skills, or mechanics whenever I can during runs. Only about 3 out of 100 actually listen. I'm just offering unwanted advice.

Once in a loooooooong while there is a newb who asks for tips.

I feel like there is an exponential increase in effort required at 65 and it should be more normalized. Instead of only nerfing level 65 dungeons the leveling dungeons should require some effort and offer more incentives.

I was thinking something like dividing the leveling dungeons up to the length of a solo dungeon for each boss. Scale up difficulty a bit to make each section take just a bit less time than an entire run currently while giving the same amount of exp as a full run now. Maybe veterans can opt to solo and receive a dps, defense, OR healing buff and reward the solo run with bonus exp based on score or something. When you queue for a dungeon you get a random section.

Personally I would rather have bite size pieces of somewhat challenging content and be able to run those quickly vs a long grind where people can get by with auto attacking and face tanking everything.

Nopi · July 2016

I've leveled a bunch of characters recently in haste to take advantage of the level up events. In there I saw that of all level up dungeons, the ones where people died the most were Akasha and Golden Lab. In GL, people come with the set mind that they will steamroll everything, then that big kumas splats his b*tt on their faces, making a nice brown mark in the floor. Once I carry and pick up their pieces and form them back in a non guaranteed but mostly similar way to how they were, they get splatted on the walls of the second boss, the vulcan. Gawd, I love his jumps and the fact that each jump I see him take, an HP bar or two go grey. The guy and the dog aren't much problem, then they face the giant, and again, more red and brown splats, everywhere, several times in a match. It's funny. At Akasha's it's even funnier because almost nobody uses the holy potion that you need there to not do only like 10% of your supposed dps... Not that it's much of an upgrade to use it or not if the player is going to spam auto anyway. <.<

TheGreyWolf · July 2016

Nopi wrote: »

I've leveled a bunch of characters recently in haste to take advantage of the level up events. In there I saw that of all level up dungeons, the ones where people died the most were Akasha and Golden Lab. In GL, people come with the set mind that they will steamroll everything, then that big kumas splats his b*tt on their faces, making a nice brown mark in the floor. Once I carry and pick up their pieces and form them back in a non guaranteed but mostly similar way to how they were, they get splatted on the walls of the second boss, the vulcan. Gawd, I love his jumps and the fact that each jump I see him take, an HP bar or two go grey. The guy and the dog aren't much problem, then they face the giant, and again, more red and brown splats, everywhere, several times in a match. It's funny. At Akasha's it's even funnier because almost nobody uses the holy potion that you need there to not do only like 10% of your supposed dps... Not that it's much of an upgrade to use it or not if the player is going to spam auto anyway. <.<

LOL DOH.... I always forget the damn potion for Akasha's

In my defense, I only do that dungeon like once every few months or so...

HK37AYPJ74 · July 2016

I personally love it when a dps runs through the dungeon and aggros 40 mobs in the interest of speed running and then gets one shot by a stray arrow. Then they all aggro me cause I was the middle of casting a heal and the rest of the party runs away.

Hyspherical · July 2016

I don't think it all lies within the dungeons. The open world questing is very lacking and repetitive for such a low gain in XP. It's a shame because Tera has some really interesting and beautiful places that most people will never see. And it's a lot more relaxing to quest with a friend or 2 than to spam the same handful of dungeons to get to max level and spam another handful of dungeons.

Nopi · July 2016

HK37AYPJ74 wrote: »

I personally love it when a dps runs through the dungeon and aggros 40 mobs in the interest of speed running and then gets one shot by a stray arrow. Then they all aggro me cause I was the middle of casting a heal and the rest of the party runs away.

lol and lol again. this happened to me when leveling a healer too. XD

Yamazuki · July 2016

I'm not sure what increasing the dungeon difficulty accomplishes. Even if you made it difficult for one person to carry then people will just go with the alternative and level quickly through open world VGs with low level ques dying out. Which then solves nothing other than removinge one way of leveling for people that preferred that method. Tera also has systems that encourage having multiple characters, so I don't think making leveling any less easier is that good. Leveling in most games is not that enjoyable, especially for an older game where most people are at the level cap, so unless you have friends to level with you are leveling by yourself. This is why it's not uncommon for leveling on a new game to be slower than it is a couple years down the road. It's acceptable when it is slower and difficult at the start, because everyone is a low level, so finding a group is easy. Although a couple years later that is not the case and you're questing alone or using ims for dungeons since an lfg won't fill up.

Hyspherical · July 2016

Yamazuki wrote: »

I'm not sure what increasing the dungeon difficulty accomplishes. Even if you made it difficult for one person to carry then people will just go with the alternative and level quickly through open world VGs with low level ques dying out. Which then solves nothing other than removinge one way of leveling for people that preferred that method. Tera also has systems that encourage having multiple characters, so I don't think making leveling any less easier is that good. Leveling in most games is not that enjoyable, especially for an older game where most people are at the level cap, so unless you have friends to level with you are leveling by yourself. This is why it's not uncommon for leveling on a new game to be slower than it is a couple years down the road. It's acceptable when it is slower and difficult at the start, because everyone is a low level, so finding a group is easy. Although a couple years later that is not the case and you're questing alone or using ims for dungeons since an lfg won't fill up.

Makes a good point about group availability that I didn't think of. Getting more people out of the early levels (under lvl 45) could help to not turn-off new players and get everyone to a more concentrated level range and have more population there. I'm not sure if that was the intention from the devs though.

aeee98 · July 2016

voidy wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you, but in practice how do you think your idea would work out?

Whenever I level a new character, I get people in IMS who don't say a word. I'll say "hi," they'll say nothing. They won't say a word for the entire dungeon. Some of these people can barely get through Sinestral Manor, because they take the debuff from the second to last boss, nobody cleanses it, and then they leap down the ladder on their way to the final boss with 1/10th of their hp and die together from the fall damage like a death cult. Yes I've seen this happen. You know Akasha's Hideout? It asks just one thing of its players before entering: that they drink a potion found in golden labyrinth. People can't even do that. Even if it were made 100 times clearer than it is right now, they still wouldn't do it. Know how I know? Because crystal information is thrown in your face every time you log in, but I still see people with a setup designed for killing minions in the open world. [filtered], even at endgame dungeons, the only content people ever experience hiccups with are the things that ask players, usually the DPS, to stop and do something. Usually not even a whole lot. Just one little thing. For example, FI has tombstones that appear. BHS even gave them a [filtered] neon target, so that anyone with a brain would know that they should probably hit them. All the DPS has to do is attack the tombstones so a ghost will stop chasing their healer around the room or wailing on their tank. Do they do it? Nine times out of ten they don't do jack [filtered]. You don't even get clueless well-intentioned newbies trying to attack the ghost to peel it away from the healer. They just ignore the world around them. That's a different kind of bad. That's an "I don't give a [filtered]" kind of bad, and you can't fix that by just making things harder.

Again. I don't disagree that leveling content could stand to be less of a cakewalk. But I also think that the majority of people I've met in IMS are just bad because they don't even try, and cranking up the difficulty curve won't make them better. They'll just flock to kumas and have someone carry them there instead.

HK37AYPJ74 wrote: »

I offer tips about crystals, skills, or mechanics whenever I can during runs. Only about 3 out of 100 actually listen. I'm just offering unwanted advice.

Once in a loooooooong while there is a newb who asks for tips.

Everything here summarizes the problem of not just this game but most games out there, which are starting to be designed to be simpler by the day. When you dumb down things, you also dumb down the skill and mentality of the newbies. Many people mistake these people to be casuals. Fact is you can be the most casual of players and still should be able to perform the basic mechanics such as not only using auto attacks and spacebar (Not even looking for a perfect top dps rotation) as well as dodging attacks that are obviously going towards you. And of course actually getting cues from the surroundings. You can tell if a player is bad or not just by seeing if they can understand simple mechanics. A perfect example would be Kalivan's Challenge. Unless you are so geared it doesn't matter (and who does KC if you are geared anyway), a normal human being would find a bomb and stand behind it, or at least try to. Many a times people don't even realise that they are supposed to move even when the boss is obviously looking at them. These are also the people who are completely clueless about the game, with horrible crystals, no crystals at all because they don't know what a crystalbind does, stays a floormat in the easiest of level 65 dungeons and laments on how hard the already nerfed dungeon is.

Mentality is the biggest problem in the newer gamers. They want to faceroll and feel good about themselves, and game companies do give in and make it simpler for them just for profits. This I feel is the main reason why most games lose their charm. But I feel that there should be a way to shake out people from that mentality just because it is extremely toxic for a game to allow newbies to stay nonchalant and then getting hit on the head very hard when they hit level 65, which by then is way too late. And the problem is they stay bad and have absolutely no idea why they are bad.

Fact in mind is that no one expects everyone to be extremely good in their rotations and be untouchable by mobs. But at least the bare minimum of actually understanding what their skills are and doing even a halfpassable rotation without relying on AA as a DPS, keeping up the debuffs and healing as a support and actually not making the boss move around that much as a tank should be there in PvE. Upping the difficulty of the dungeons will force the newer players to eventually learn how battles and dungeons in TERA work, and how you can use your abilities to clear it,because if they don't they can't progress through the game well. And that WILL improve the situation of PvP because eventually newer players will also understand their class better from PvE, which transits them better into the PvP environment if they are interested in it.

Sure that might seem like an elitist thought, but you need a standard to keep older players interested, no matter how casual the casual player is, there should also be that standard to ensure the proper transition to the real end-game.

aeee98 · July 2016

Shineee wrote: »

Wouldn't this take out the fun or the nuisanceof having to run a dungeon for the first time and not know the mechanics and so the next time you run it you know how to defeat it? I don't care personally if they did this but wouldn't this take out the feel of TERA and learning the mechanics of a dungeon? Isn't this what separates new players introduced to end-game dungeons and veterans? Just a thought.

It is, and I find it fine if people wants to do the dive in to a dungeon to learn the mechanics instead of reading up, because it is how the original players learn the dungeon anyway. The problem is people are starting to ignore mechanics, thinking they can burn past thresholds easily, and that is the precise reason why dungeons have to return to their older difficulties.

6CPMKNT6L5 · July 2016

I agree the dungeons should be harder. I've been playing for 3 days total. I got to the first dungeon and couldn't find a group. I ended up soloing the group version of it. I had to go slow to preserve my meager supply of potions and allow my health to recover naturally. I didn't die once, I didn't even come close to dying. Okay, so pulling the extra mobs at the end did make it a little hairy. I made mistakes here and there, pulling an entire room should kill anybody.

dreamcast87 · July 2016

Harder leveling is good imo because it forces players to learn their class properly. While we're at it make the regular BAMS that wonder around harder by making them 2 shot kill you and require 3 to 5 man team to take them down.

Please make leveling train players how to play!

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