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KTERA's Developer Note regarding System/UI revamp is out

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Comments

  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    Exactly! Any issues with charms and consumables is extremely minor, and very easily fixed.

    Complexity is normal in MMO's. In almost every MMO I've played, there have been redundant systems, like alchemy. It's normal, because you WANT some complexity in your MMO, or it will be too easy.

    Also, I think it should be noted, that BHS is going against what the majority wants, on this. And that is pretty much always bad.
  • BaldurdashBaldurdash ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Please don't bring this garbage update downgrade to us?
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    Nightx wrote: »
    Actually, they don't want anyone to run solo with the removal of buffs.

    For most solo stuff buffs are simply a way of speeding up the farming, but GG, Celestial Arena and the Ace dungeons aren't exactly the most challenging solo content ever released, in IoD they're helpful but hardly a "must-have".
    Mobius1 wrote: »
    Exactly! Any issues with charms and consumables is extremely minor, and very easily fixed.

    Complexity is normal in MMO's. In almost every MMO I've played, there have been redundant systems, like alchemy. It's normal, because you WANT some complexity in your MMO, or it will be too easy.

    Also, I think it should be noted, that BHS is going against what the majority wants, on this. And that is pretty much always bad.

    You sound like a friend of mine who actually is a hardcore tabletop RPG player, he always advocates for having complex systems available for character customization and that's understandable, however, he also realizes it tends to drive newbies away, I've seen so many neophytes quitting on RPGs because their whole first roleplaying session consisted solely on making their character profile sheet.

    I think Tera's view is trying to adapt to the fact that the new generation of videogame consumers isn't like ours, the new "gamers" (I don't consider myself a gamer, though, I just happen to have played a few titlles through my life) aren't like you and me, they won't sit down and think how to solve a puzzle in a survival horror game, they probably would quit any TLoZ title when they reach the Temple of Water, they will expect their character's OP-ness to carry them in LoL or whatever instead of thinking strategically, and so on, they want things not necessarily "easy" but they indeed want them "fast". Is it a surprise MOBAs and FPS games are still at the top?

    Currently Tera isn't appealing enough to hardcore audiences to become a finnancial success among them again, and it isn't straightforward enough to draw and keep casuals engaged, this is probably the consequence of having the original dev team gone and getting a new one with a completely different PoV.

    The game started pretty much like an old school MMORPG with the addeed layer of real time action combat built in, I remember lots of Tera reviews where the main complaint -other than optimization- was that the questing system and leveling was terribly outdated, many found funny -and annoying- the fact that the game had such an engaging fighting system with such old-fashioned subsystems (crating, questing, etc...), so much it felt weird. I think it's too soon for me to speak, and the new devs can always surprise us with even worse ideas, but sorc's revamping and the simplyfication of consumables and boss mechanic indicators makes me think perhaps -only perhaps- whoever is in charge at BHS and Nexon finally decided to focus development in the aspect Tera truly shines: action combat, even BDO and BnS's disguised tab-target haven't been able to kill Tera for good thanks to it - and because those also have lots of problems on their own.

    Tera no longer depends on niche audiencies paying a monthly fee fo receive updates and more content in the same fashion it was developed 4 years ago, as an F2P game it depends on having waves of players to come periodically and enjoy the game whether they can play 6 hours straight or only 2, so they can really feel like spending money in the game.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    You see, there's a much better way to fix those issues and I wrote it somewhere at the start. Remove non-greater charms, turn friendly and mystel charms into balder's. Done. The only way somebody would have a cunning charm to throw is if they deliberately go to the speciality store and purchase it which should tell you a lot about their mentality(as in, you are looking at a person who goes out of their way to troll somebody). Heck, even replace the keen charms form boxes with power if you want. Healer who go to the trouble of using keen charms can afford to buy them.

    And, seriously, that's what MMOs are. Layers of systems that you have to figure out, options that you have to consider. Some of it is explained in the game, the rest you have to work out on your own(or with the help of guides). It's not supposed to be a straight line from point A to point B. Complexity is -the- most important part. Without it, what do we even have? Walk forward, kill stuff on the road by pressing 1 button. When you reach the end of the road, that's it, game over. Nothing to discover, nothing to think about, just 1 button....

    And I agree such modifications weren't necessary, but perhaps this is more related to "rebuilding" the game towards another direction rather than fixing the tons of old unused system leftovers it has, at least that's only thing I can get out of all the recent developments. We might not like the path the game is being taken through, that's for sure.

    Anyway, sorry about the wall of text...
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Again, I just see walls of text trying to take a stance that the game doesn't need to be so complex, and I will respond like I have been over and over, by saying that charms and consumables are not complex at all.

    The systems that actually ARE complex and confusing, are not even being touched by BHS's little finger.

    And as far as rebuilding goes - ever heard the term, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?" No one ever complained about consumables or charms being too confusing. Have you ever met a noob who said that charms and consumables were too confusing? I haven't, and I'm quite sure you haven't. It honestly sounds like, to me, that your complaints have to do with OTHER complex systems, and NOT the ones that are being gutted and/or removed, but for whatever reason, you're just lumping them all together, as if they actually have something to do with each other. They don't.

    Sure, the random charms could maybe be removed. The extra RNG is stupid and could be slightly confusing, though the item, if you actually spend the 5-10 seconds required, actually explains exactly what it does.

    Also, not one bloody thing was said about rebuilding, so what am I supposed to do? Go off of blind faith and happily believe that BHS will actually do something good? Do you honestly believe that they will, or if they do, that it will be better than what we have now?

    As far as stamina goes, I personally liked it. It was an inconvenience, but that was the point. With a few adjustments, it could be improved, no doubt, but its issues did not warrant a complete removal of the entire system, when no fix was even attempted.
  • edited July 2016
    Cezzare wrote: »
    I think it's too soon for me to speak, and the new devs can always surprise us with even worse ideas, but sorc's revamping and the simplyfication of consumables and boss mechanic indicators makes me think perhaps -only perhaps- whoever is in charge at BHS and Nexon finally decided to focus development in the aspect Tera truly shines: action combat, even BDO and BnS's disguised tab-target haven't been able to kill Tera for good thanks to it - and because those also have lots of problems on their own.

    [...]

    And I agree such modifications weren't necessary, but perhaps this is more related to "rebuilding" the game towards another direction rather than fixing the tons of old unused system leftovers it has, at least that's only thing I can get out of all the recent developments. We might not like the path the game is being taken through, that's for sure.
    For what it's worth, I agree with your entire analysis -- I think that is exactly what is going on. This change on its own may seem pointless because these systems were simple and nowhere near as complicated as some of the other systems that really need fixing (no arguments from me on those). But, taken in combination with all the other changes, it all seems part of a more radical makeover to double-down on being a more straightforward action combat game. Indeed, if you look at reviews and general outside feedback about the game, all the legacy MMORPG systems are often declared below par, but the action combat is highly praised. They've also discussed recently that they're looking to port the game to consoles (and EME is having console-related focus groups in the next few weeks, though they didn't say it's related to TERA exactly), and more streamlined action gameplay and consolidated game systems are generally more suited for that medium. If they do port the game to UE4 for consoles (as has been the talk so far), I think that version of the game will likely supplant this one, and I suspect many systems will be redone as part of that conversion process. If they really do want to keep TERA running for the next 5-10+ years, it will likely look radically different than the game it was at launch and even the game it is today as they try to appeal to younger or more casual gamers and let veterans move on.

    As I commented in another thread, I really don't think BHS sees going back to the past as a way forward, so I strongly suspect that people who lament the trends and want to go back to the old days are probably going to feel more and more alienated, particularly if BHS thinks the changes are showing signs of success. For now, we'll see what happens...
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    I see. So if I go to the doctor and tell him my foot hurts, and he amputates my finger, I guess I'll just tell myself that he'll get around to fixing my foot, eventually! It's all part of his master plan, to make me fully healthy again!

    Maybe next visit? I'm sure he'll get around to my foot, then? You know, that part of my body that actually IS hurting?

    Until then though, I'd still like to know why my finger was amputated!!

    ...I guess I don't actually NEED 5 fingers. The fifth one just complicated it too much, I guess. Thank you doctor!

    UPDATE: The next visit he amputated my foot!! It was a broken toe, but he said it was easier this way.
  • CezzareCezzare ✭✭✭
    Mobius1 wrote: »
    I see. So if I go to the doctor and tell him my foot hurts, and he amputates my finger, I guess I'll just tell myself that he'll get around to fixing my foot, eventually! It's all part of his master plan, to make me fully healthy again!

    Maybe next visit? I'm sure he'll get around to my foot, then? You know, that part of my body that actually IS hurting?

    Until then though, I'd still like to know why my finger was amputated!!

    ...I guess I don't actually NEED 5 fingers. The fifth one just complicated it too much, I guess. Thank you doctor!

    UPDATE: The next visit he amputated my foot!! It was a broken toe, but he said it was easier this way.

    Sometimes pulling a rotten tooth and replacing it is more practical than going through endodontic treatment.
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    It's more like removing wisdom teeth from someone that it an aged adult, who has had no issues or problems because of them.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    As said, this change may make some people leave the game. And if making one veteran leave the game, a veteran who has already spent his worth in cash and is not spending much more because he already has everything and can buy every cash shop item with gold because he's a millionaire in game, in order to bring 3 or 4 spending casual newbies works for BHS and brings them more money, what would you think would be their decision? Comeon. Try to think like Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg on this one.

    Let's face it. Even if the majority of players of this game were veterans(a claim I know not about so I won't really dare say is true or false. but IF), it seems to me that most of the gaming industry's user base out there right now is composed of casuals and people who want quick gaming sessions. As someone else said, this is one of the reasons(not THE reason but one big factor, mind you) why games with simple management that toss you into the action as quick as possible are still on top. So it's natural for companies to try and experiment and try to grab the attention of those quick action seeking gamers. This all happened since gaming went main stream.

    Now, as a counter argument, PC gaming may still be niche. More in this smart phone and tablet world. So what would BHS get from simplifying a game for a population that doesn't even have a PC? The answer is in the middle ground of console gaming. Thing is, apparently console gaming is also seeing a rapid dwindling as more people and companies prefer the convenience of mobile gaming. But to this date, consoles are still rather strong and they won't die tomorrow. And if the whole VR thing works, we might see a resurgence. So I assume the decision to simplify Tera (which I strongly believe this simplification will continue) is to make it ready for console gaming, as seen by the current exploration into consoles that BHS is doing.

    So in the end, hang tight, but if you have to go because the change is something you dislike and no matter how angry you get you won't get a revert, then move on and good luck out there, as Tera won't be the only simplified game you will meet. As always, blame money for it. :D
  • CatoriiCatorii ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    What makes me salty is just the removal of dash scrolls and keen charms for healers (as well as crit power scrolls when soloing). They keep adding all this solo content, but how do they expect healers to do it with attack speed scrolls? It's already slow enough.

    Dash scrolls are actually used a lot more often than some people think - they've saved my behind many, many times in places like FIHM, SCHM, BRHM where you have to get somewhere fast or you die. They probably aren't as useful for super mobile classes, but try to see it from a tank or healer point of view - it can be the difference between dying to a oneshot or getting out of range. This is something that should've been added to an NPC at the very least, if they're intent on ruining all uses of alchemy, because there is literally no replacement for them that gives the same buff.

    Not being able to keen charm isn't a huge deal - I got lazy myself after Everful Nostrums were implemented and stopped keening every time I died - but the crit power scrolls are fundamental and not optional if you're doing anything alone. What's the point in buffing healer damage so much only to nerf it again by blocking the use of DPS scrolls?

    You can talk about simplifying the game all you want. Fact of the matter is, some of these things didn't need to go. They aren't confusing. What does a Scroll of Dash do? Oh, probably what the name implies. And if it's really that confusing, you can always hover over it for the nice and clear description. There was legit no reason to remove it or some of these other things, so trying to defend it by saying they were confusing players...well, it's just not true. Unless you're a child. In which case, developers shouldn't be dumbing down the game to match your comprehension level.

    They also literally gutted Alchemy and made it useless all in one go. If that's to simplify things...well, say goodbye to superior brooches, ladies and gentlemen, because BHS is coming for Weaponsmithing and Armorcrafting next.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Catorii wrote: »
    What makes me salty is just the removal of dash scrolls and keen charms for healers (as well as crit power scrolls when soloing). They keep adding all this solo content, but how do they expect healers to do it with attack speed scrolls? It's already slow enough.

    Dash scrolls are actually used a lot more often than some people think - they've saved my behind many, many times in places like FIHM, SCHM, BRHM where you have to get somewhere fast or you die. They probably aren't as useful for super mobile classes, but try to see it from a tank or healer point of view - it can be the difference between dying to a oneshot or getting out of range. This is something that should've been added to an NPC at the very least, if they're intent on ruining all uses of alchemy, because there is literally no replacement for them that gives the same buff.

    Not being able to keen charm isn't a huge deal - I got lazy myself after Everful Nostrums were implemented and stopped keening every time I died - but the crit power scrolls are fundamental and not optional if you're doing anything alone. What's the point in buffing healer damage so much only to nerf it again by blocking the use of DPS scrolls?

    You can talk about simplifying the game all you want. Fact of the matter is, some of these things didn't need to go. They aren't confusing. What does a Scroll of Dash do? Oh, probably what the name implies. And if it's really that confusing, you can always hover over it for the nice and clear description. There was legit no reason to remove it or some of these other things, so trying to defend it by saying they were confusing players...well, it's just not true. Unless you're a child. In which case, developers shouldn't be dumbing down the game to match your comprehension level.

    They also literally gutted Alchemy and made it useless all in one go. If that's to simplify things...well, say goodbye to superior brooches, ladies and gentlemen, because BHS is coming for Weaponsmithing and Armorcrafting next.

    Since the change is already done and not optional, we can only ask as a group to bring back those things that were removed in some other way, so people can still benefit from the effects of dash or power or anything needed for healers to do solo vanguards properly. Say, a passive for healers that increases power or crit power or whatever is needed, when not in a party. As for dash, make it more viable to use the combat movement speed crystal, or add a greater move speed roll to leg armor.
  • PixelatorPixelator ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Mystics are already more than fine doing solo content - usually completing them faster than most of the dps classes. Plus, they still like that attack speed scroll for the metamorphic smite chains (although not as much as crit scroll, I'll admit that). It's the Priests that will be hurt the most by this change. The solution of course, is to buff Priest's solo offensive capability (something similar to the Ghillie buff) to equalize the healers' ability to solo content, while keeping the identities intact in party play.
  • XaeraXaera ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    Ideally, the priority is keeping the existing players, and THEN once you've done that, you can try to bring in new players. Unfortunately, BHS doesn't seem to want to do that.
  • JBGamingJBGaming ✭✭✭
    The stamina system never really bothered me. I know it's an inconvenience for most players (myself included) to have to stop and drop a campfire or carry panaceas or invest in stamina regen mounts or whatever, but I figured that was just part of the "realism". I wouldn't even mind having a system that required your character to stop to eat and sleep every so often. But that's probably the kind of thing that only appeals to RP immersion players, so removing it is completely understandable. I'm just a little sad for my large collection of various campfires, charms and panaceas :( RIP

    Nah it's okay though... the net result will be more room in the bank and inventory for me, so it's all good ;)

    omg lol... stamina mounts will be useless now lol

    I know right. What a way to listen to the people that have actually spent money to get those mounts too. This is just another way of encouraging people to not spend money on the game anymore.
  • JBGamingJBGaming ✭✭✭
    Feii wrote: »
    The stamina system never really bothered me. I know it's an inconvenience for most players (myself included) to have to stop and drop a campfire or carry panaceas or invest in stamina regen mounts or whatever, but I figured that was just part of the "realism". I wouldn't even mind having a system that required your character to stop to eat and sleep every so often. But that's probably the kind of thing that only appeals to RP immersion players, so removing it is completely understandable. I'm just a little sad for my large collection of various campfires, charms and panaceas :( RIP

    Nah it's okay though... the net result will be more room in the bank and inventory for me, so it's all good ;)

    omg lol... stamina mounts will be useless now lol

    Stamina mounts are changing to HP.
    It said the effect of stamina is changing to regen of 0.5%hp

    That isn't enough. it's just a trickle really. more like a drop of water when you need a gallon.

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