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Current PvP Class Balancing and META

Ive made great experiences after some threats ive done in the past in this forum so Id like to start a new discussion and hope we can handle this as good as the last one. In this discussion Id like to give you guys my experiences ive made and my oppionion on the current class balancing and Id like to hear what you guys think about my points and what you personal think about certaint classes. My oppinion comes from a 5 year tera experience 13 lv 65 on NA 7 65 on Eu and 2 65 on KR, from my 3 years pvp experience where we got the 1st rank in the very 1st crusade and I went 2 times exarch in alliance.

Disclaimer:
.) This is a neutral discussion based on my own player experience. I want to talk in a peaceful and objective based way with you guys and I dont want to see anyone flaming each other in the comments just because they dont share the same oppionion.
.) This discussion is about the performance and gameplay about all classes in PvP ONLY!
.) Each class will have 2 parts: 1 will be the fast analysis for those of you guys who dont like to read much and the 2nd is a bit more detailed
.) This threat is about the current META so it will be outdated in a few months when the classes will be revamped and rebalanced
.) Im not a native english speaking person so please excuse some writing mistakes I did for sure.
.) This threat is sorted from meele to range to hybrid to support
.) I know its hard to stay objective when you dont read that YOUR class the the hardest and best class in the game but please try it

Warrior: Difficulty 8/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 3/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 6/10, 1v1 Efficiency 8/10

Warrior was the class which took a lot of skill to learn and even more to master. 1 year ago they changed the playstyle from stagger/push to knock down/"burst". With this change the difficulty decreased a lot because the classic backstep combo deals 24% more damage than before which is like around 52% when both player have the same gear. This class is pretty tricky to master if you ping is a little bit higher than the average and impossible if your ping is 180+ because you wont be able to block cancel fast enough to be efficient. The warriors job was to stagger log the heals and set up for team aoe's. Doing that and the simple "road warrior" is like the only efficient way for warriors to be usefull in mass pvp.

Slayer: Difficulty 6/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 5/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 7/10, 1v1 Efficiency 7/10

Slayer was the counter part to warrior: Slower, a harder mana management but stronger in raw skill damage which is a good thing for faster executions. After Slayer got their lv 63 skill "eviserate?" they were OP as hell and the slayer popularity went from 22% to almost 45%. 1 year later they got nerfed and now almost nobody plays slayer. Dont get me wrong here the class is not very underpowered I mean it needs to get rebalanced to the current meta but the core is great. I played my slayer 4 days ago in some bgs and went 14/0, 24/2 and so on like before BUT I understand why ppl dont rly like to play slayer atm because the current META is aoe burst/cc based so slayer is not rly player in this META.

Lancer Difficulty 9/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 7/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 8/10, 1v1 Efficiency 9/10

Lancer is pretty similar to warrior in the way from starting to mastering. If you take your time to master this class you got the cc, gear arc type and sustainability you want to have in a class for 1v1 except good burst. In mass pvp they are pretty good to setup strong aoe combos but due to dear limited number they cant rly do much against the other 80% of the raid. In smaller pvp they are still really good because they come to their 1v1 strength plus they can make full usage of their pull. I cant really say that lancer are OP even tho they are very strong in 1v1. Lancer is the kind of thing I like to see in a class because they got a rly high skill/success curve. If you take your time and master this class you become very very strong and thats fine for me because all new added classes are very easy to learn.


Berserk Difficulty 7/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 5/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 7/10, 1v1 Efficiency 7/10

This class didnt really change since tera start. They were the walking destruction and they still are or are they? Their job was to 1 shot ppl in bgs and kd combo the important targets. The simple 1 shot (buffed thundering strike) is kinda dead now because you need to be overgeared now to get a clear 1 hit kill. (they reduce the base damage by 30%).They are not really played that much in the current META but thats simply because they are slow and need a good positioning and timing and many ppl dont want to learn these things. They have been really good and they are still really good right now nothing more to say here from my part. Since the 30% nerf u also cant really say they are op in any way soooo...

Brawler Difficulty 4/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 10/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 9/10, 1v1 Efficiency 9/10

Brawler is similar to reaper in a certain way but besides reaper's current strength based on the meta, brawler is just broken by their kit itself. The whole concept of the class isnt meant to be balanced because you get a block ability (like lancer) but some of your skills also do block (while attacking) you have an execute, knock down skill which can deal a redicilous amount of damage when the target is at around 50% or lower, a high range, aoe, stagger + knock up skill and meatgrinder ... I mean meatgrinder is like the complete counter part of the whole concept of tera. Its and action combat based mmorpg and this skill just hits all targets which are knock uped without even amaing. This alone is way to strong at its own it also deals a stupid amount of damage if the skill comes through. Besides all these things brawler do have heavy armor type for their defense, a self heal for their surviveability, a controllable sprint for their utility. All in one Im not a big fan of the concept of this class because its a dps tank with a self heal thats just way to much for my game balancing brain. I could say lets remove the heal, nerf the damage n stuff but it would be a weak [filtered] class because the concept is based on a dps tank so I dont rly know how to balance this class ...

Archer Difficulty 6/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 8/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 6/10, 1v1 Efficiency 7/10

Id like to start explaing why I took 7/10 in 1v1 Efficiency: They are missing heavy armor, burst, gab close and sustainability BUT they do have a simple 1 shot combo so it would feel very wrong when Id say ye the are like 5/10 so I think 7/10 is pretty fair if you think that a good archer can just innihilate you in 1 simple combo ...
Playstyle remained pretty muc the same after the year - hit it and crit it <3 Ye like you imagine an archer just try to hit your targets and if you crit you will see a lot of kills. Your aoes are great to snack some teamfight kills and the fact that traps are invinsible now helps your suprise your opponents and outplay unexperienced player. Like I said they are missing mobility and sustainability which is a big back side. Id like to nerf the stagger combo damage by 30% but give them more utility to help them survive by being able to escape sticky situations. I really want to know what you guys think about that idea...

Gunner Difficulty 5/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 9/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 8/10, 1v1 Efficiency 9/10

In the 1v1 scenario we have a similar situation with archer here BUT unlike archer gunner do have better armor arc type, the bot combos + but heal gives u better sirviveability and you also do have more utility + the 1 shot combo which is a bit weaker than the archer combo if you dont crit with arcane and it relys on the reset but its still very very strong but also harded to setup unlike archers combo. This class is very strong but many ppl dont know about that. If you are looking for a very good all in 1 package in a ranged class gunner is pretty much the best you can get. Balancing wise I have a few requests because seeing that much defense in a range burst class is a bit stupid. They should nerf the defense or the damage on arcane barrage because having a heavy armor class which deal tons of damage (like zerk) PLUS has good utility, surviveability AND burst is kinda overloaded (like all of the new classes)

Ninja Difficulty 8/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 7/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 8/10, 1v1 Efficiency 8/10

This was a hard one to decide and Im sure that a lot of people will blame me for that decision but let me explain my thoughts. This class is hated because its new and thats normal but if we take the class and look from another ancle we'll find some interesting things. Difficulty wise Ive gave them 8/10 BECAUSE the basic way playing a ninja is very easy and a lot of ppl can confirm this BUT the thing is: this class is hybrid but mainly meele with CLOTH. Its role is stagger/push as CLOTH so ninja have to get close to you to do their job otherwise they cant do much. Beside the weak gear arc type they also dont have any heals like brawler, gunner, lancer, berserk or any kind of shield like sorcerer they also dont have an anti-stun/kd/stagger like slayer, berserk or neither a block like lancer, brawler, warrior. So what do we got here? This class relies on this utility, iframes, high based damage skills and stagger. BUT high damage skills dont have much usage out of cs and beginner pvp because in high end pvp you can deal 10k-20k with 1 skill but you wont win any fights without a very good combo and playstyle so whats the problem here? As some people of you guys notice ninja got some weird desynch problems and also some weird stagger problems. Some player can use the sprint + stun in 1 breathe but for many of us we desynch out of that and the stun just wont go through. You also cant overstagger like other classes where u stagger over the current stagger to extend the chain. What I mean with that is after u dash for example you stagger the enemie and if you use another stagger to earlythe damage goes through but the stagger does not reset. This makes the combo where u avoid the stun desynch with dash+180 degree angle stagger + stun very hard because u need to dash, wait till the first stagger is almost at its end and time the 2nd stagger otherwise it wont go through. Another hidden bug/nerf is that u cant just throw that giant shuriken, backstep and stun BECAUSE the stun wont last 3 sec (against -20% stun reduce) it will just last 0,5 sec (you can try that by your own). Back to the stagger if you use a very easy stagger combo very u use 4 stagger in a row u also wont stagger with all 4 because the overstagger doesnt work´: dash, basic attack, double cut (where the 1st hit wont stagger but the 2nd will) and basic attack BUT because the stagger from double cut was just a few mill. seconds ago the basic attack stagger wont go through. So back to the Difficulty: Its 8/10 because its pretty buggy atm u also can try thousand cuts into sorc trap and its like a 50/50 cance if you get cc'd or if you can get through, same as dodge into trap, backstep and the tree will activate the trap or you will get hit first its also 50/50 and that is a very important point where its just rng atm. If they will do bugfixes and everything would work flawless the class would be 5/10. Mass pvp, small group is good because of giant [filtered] shuriken and utility 1v1 like I said strong when the class would work fine and weird against good players atm

Reaper Difficulty 4/10, Mass PvP Efficiency 10/10, Small Group Efficiency PvP 8/10, 1v1 Efficiency 9/10

This class is the go-to-class at the current meta. Its a very strong class which can 1 combo you in a 7 sec stagger lock. With sundering strike they have access to a high dmg burst, aoe, knock down, execute (more damage if target is low) skill. Their counter attack isnt as strong as it was because the other classes especially the never got some similar skills but its still pretty strong because you get 100% crit damaged by just hiting a reaper. I played reaper since the release and it changed from OP to balanced to weak to balanced to OP. Its a weird class to balance but the did it many times BUT because reaper is one of the koreans favourite class it will get overbuffed all the time. Right now koreans want reaper to have more mobility ... :^) Reaper had a good place in the meta 1 year ago and were very strong in mass pvp and smaller pvp but weaker in 1v1 but right now you dont play them on power or crit you go attack speed all the way which gives u the oppotunity to just 1 shot or almost 1 shot your target with an pretty easy combo which consists on staggers only and finishes the tagret off with knock down, execute, burst. After the combo the target will have the dot debuff which will setup another stun if the target isnt able to dodge the activation. People complaint about reaper when they were new to the game and right now they are even stronger than after release but cause many ppl play them they wont be honest about their strength. The most broken class in my opinion atm because the only 2 things to be the worst thing ever is heavy armor arc type and a dash ability. If reaper would have these 2 things addeded to their current strength I would quit Tera xD But reaper right now are way to strong. They need to nerf the class by removing some stagger OR lower the active stagger area and also the ancle of most of the skills because staggering a target when u dont even aim for it is [filtered] and lowers the difficulty of the class.

Priest + Mystic

This is a special part because I dont want to talk much about support because everyone knows what they do in mass pvp, small pvp and the 1v1 they never do. Also nobody expects support to be on the list so I want to make this one very short. This is just my oppinion and ALL the support mains will curse me for that but in 90% of the game Supports are food for the DD's in pvp if their team cant peel for them. Why does ppl dont want to 1v1 supports and why is a good support very annoying in a raid? Because u cant really kill them. Sure lets talk amout very skilled DD's which an do this and this but in my oppinion supports are to strong in Tera. I mean Im talking as a 100% DD main so I just want to see a heal dieing when Im at them for like 5 seconds and dont chase them till they heal them selfs from 50-100% in 3 seconds and its almost impossible catching them when their team peels well. I dont see any changes because many ppl disagree with me here but If I would work at bhs I would reduce the amount of self healing and protections work on allies only. Like I said many ppl will hate me for this one but its my own oppinion.

Thank you If you've come this far!

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Comments

  • I don't forgot the sorc but its useless talking about sorcs atm cause the revamp is coming very soon.
    Ill just copy/paste my opinion about the sorc revamp from my tumblr:

    "The funny part is that people hype the ravamp and they dont see the core behind the revamp. Besides the pretty animations there is a big buff for PvE and a really big nerf in PvP. The thunder skill is a long line and its easier to dodge than the current magma bomb, the ice ball looks great but its easier to dodge than the small ice needle and the meteor strike … well thats the coolest looking skill BUT if you wanna reach the amount of burst u can do with fireblast right now u gotta use the overchannel skill. The only problem with that is that there will fall muliple meteors not just 1. Why is this a bad thing? Cuz its RIP sleep combo cuz the 1st meteor will give u the chance to jump out of the meteors. “But what if the sorc uses lightning trap?” In this case u have 4 seconds to land as much meteors as u can and even so u wont be able to get the max damage out of it. Im happy about these changes tbh cuz I dont rly like the safezone + 1 shot mechanics of sorcs atm. Blame me for saying so but I welcome the sorc revamp for PvE and PvP"
  • PalochiPalochi ✭✭✭
    Well i agree with most of the stuff, just a few things that i dont; mostly the Ninja, Healers and a bit on the Sorc parts.
    Going in order: about Ninja, its not so hard to hit the stun, Double Cut to the side so you get some distance and aim back to stun..it will always hit, using that as a reason to say Ninja isnt so good is like saying Slayer is bad/hard because they desync HT a lot, just gotta learn how to use it properly. About their strength overall, id say they deserve nerfs, they can pretty much kill anyone with one single combo in eq gear right now using the Stun combo that has Blade Storm and D. Blossom in it; besides that, there are a few small things that make Ninjas just stupid imo. ie: they are the only class that can cancel Retaliate animation without a block, they have a small chance of simply ignoring stuns and depending on when you use your Retaliate and the skill they used, it will make every movement skill/iframe you have become impossible to use (can be fixed by just using any other skill but i see really no reason for that to happen, kinda like how i see the Brawler Retaliate Stun everytime perfectly timed for that to work all day after certain skills..there is no point in having that in the game besides giving the class small advantages when they are already good)
    About Healers, i dont think nerfing them is a good idea; a really good Warrior can solo most Priests and Mystics who arent used to surviving them; if 2 ppl focus a healer, the healer will most likely die or be unable to heal their team. Its rare to see ppl peel'ing in raids tbh, making them easy to kill so anyone can solo them in a few seconds would just make healers almost useless in every kind of PvP.
    And the Sorc nerf, i dont think the Sorc PvP nerf should be welcomed by anyone; they arent a god tier PvP class like Reaper is now, they are actually pretty predictable. The only reason they "Shine" in mass PvP is a Lancer or a Brawler, not themselves. The stun duration and Nerve Exhaust were recently nerfed, killing almost every big combo Sorcs could possibly use to 100 -> 0 someone -unless they literally crit everything and you are cloth gear as well- (besides the Arcane Pulse combo..but its impossible to use that in PvP besides duels). The only thing they can do is pretty much stagger sleep, im not sure if the new skill that will replace Magma Bomb will have a stagger effect but even if it actually does it will make Sorcs even more predictable because of how slow that skill seems to be, that new Ice Needle is simply so pretty that everyone will see it and know youre going for a Sleep because there is no reason to use that at all.
    The rest of the stuff seems pretty accurate tho, i just wish Brawlers never came to Tera..i dont even know how many ppl in the PvP side of the game i know that stopped playing because of the release of that thing, glad they finally removed the Sucky Thing on the auto attacks.
    Nice to see a post like this tho..wonder who will be the first to say Reaper is balanced
  • Alright thats nice to hear thank you!
    To the ninja retaliate thing im not sure if u mean the skillblock u get after cycle of steel + bomb because that seemed like a bug to me but is easy to avoid you just must not use retaliate when ninja get u in cycle of steel and then the bomb wont give u this nasty skill block. Like I said not sure if u mean that
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    If by small group efficiency you mean 3's your numbers for that are way off.

    Warrior and reaper are stronger than you mentioned for 3's ( Warrior is an 8, Reaper is a 9 ) while Brawler and gunner are weaker ( prob 4 each, unless it is Team 3s where Brawlers are allowed to have their attack speed rolls which makes them a 7 ).

    Really the only thing you get right is that Reapers are overpowered in the NA version of the game. Lack of talents in NA results in other classes having less mobility than they should. Lack of good servers results in it being absurdly easy for a reaper to desync their location and angle through blocks while appearing to be attacking at no angle at all. Lack of any good Ktera reapers has resulted in the class receiving a large number of unnecessary damage buffs.
  • DigivolveDigivolve ✭✭✭✭
    I have a +15 SF archer and I don't 100-0 people anymore. At most it takes off 80% but not more in CS, and around 60-70 in FWC.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't forgot the sorc but its useless talking about sorcs atm cause the revamp is coming very soon.
    Ill just copy/paste my opinion about the sorc revamp from my tumblr:

    "The funny part is that people hype the ravamp and they dont see the core behind the revamp. Besides the pretty animations there is a big buff for PvE and a really big nerf in PvP. The thunder skill is a long line and its easier to dodge than the current magma bomb, the ice ball looks great but its easier to dodge than the small ice needle and the meteor strike … well thats the coolest looking skill BUT if you wanna reach the amount of burst u can do with fireblast right now u gotta use the overchannel skill. The only problem with that is that there will fall muliple meteors not just 1. Why is this a bad thing? Cuz its RIP sleep combo cuz the 1st meteor will give u the chance to jump out of the meteors. “But what if the sorc uses lightning trap?” In this case u have 4 seconds to land as much meteors as u can and even so u wont be able to get the max damage out of it. Im happy about these changes tbh cuz I dont rly like the safezone + 1 shot mechanics of sorcs atm. Blame me for saying so but I welcome the sorc revamp for PvE and PvP"

    You rarely use the ice needle for really the ice needle. You use it to prep for mindblast. This makes it even more visible than before that the sorc is prepping for sleep.

    Also everyone knows Sorc is somewhat nerfed in PvP.
  • PalochiPalochi ✭✭✭
    @Kiraboshi
    I think by small scale he meant 5x5 or something..not exactly 3's
    The way 3's works is pretty different from a small PvP group in lets say..Dead Alliance, in 3's you can use pillars and the space ppl have to move around is limited..Also 3's player comp is random af, outside it you could make any class work in small scale with other classes that could help them.
    But i didnt really pay attention to the "scores" tbh XD i just read the stuff.

    @GiveMeADamnName
    Yeah im talking about that..it happens a lot to me for some reason even just with the Circle :<
    I hate it so much ;-;
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    If he means 5v5, then he means open world, which means nothing.

    Open world pvp will always be an imba joke, only to be played for fun and never taken seriously. There are way too many nonsense consumables that break the game for any of that to matter. Crit scrolls and nocs make things bad enough, but as soon as people start breaking out the cleansing brooch/warding scroll/Rejuv pots all hints of balance goes out the window.

  • Palochi wrote: »
    @Kiraboshi
    I think by small scale he meant 5x5 or something..not exactly 3's
    The way 3's works is pretty different from a small PvP group in lets say..Dead Alliance, in 3's you can use pillars and the space ppl have to move around is limited..Also 3's player comp is random af, outside it you could make any class work in small scale with other classes that could help them.
    But i didnt really pay attention to the "scores" tbh XD i just read the stuff.

    @GiveMeADamnName
    Yeah im talking about that..it happens a lot to me for some reason even just with the Circle :<
    I hate it so much ;-;

    Yes you are right by small pvp I dont rly mean 3v3 cuz 3v3 is always 1 heal 2 dd's (+1 tank). I mean surtaint scenarios like in alliance, guild wars, bgs situations, open world and death matches


    And like I said I think its just an annoying bug but u can avoid that. I tested that with my sorc friend and he just waited till cyrcle is over to use retaliate. Lets say just never ever use retaliate why in cyrcle because first off its not worth it cuz its not a real kd and 2nd off after a cycle the bomb will follow 8/10 times and this is what gives u this skillblock
  • "This class is the go-to-class at the current meta. Its a very strong class which can 1 combo you in a 7 sec stagger lock."

    Is that true? A mother F***King 7 second stun lock? Seriously if a class is going to be that overpowered in pvp, it should become worthless in pve to balance it out.
  • PalochiPalochi ✭✭✭
    edited July 2016
    well the combo doesnt stop there ;w; (i dont think its 7 seconds tho lol)
    Double Sheer - Pendulum - Whipsaw - Cable Step - Smite - Grim Strike - Spiral - Sundering - Soul Reversal
    icryeverytime because i cant even thing about escaping it (ping 10/10)
  • Wait what? Reaper and Lancer are above Warrior in 1v1? No no no no

    Warrior difficulty 2/10 at best, and 10/10 1v1 FOR SURE. Like the only class that even compares to Warrior in 1v1 is Mystic, and honestly they got nerfed for that and should still lose 1v1 to Warriors unless they're better geared.

    Warrior is the 1v1 class, the best class in the game on it's own.
  • Kawaguchi3 wrote: »
    "This class is the go-to-class at the current meta. Its a very strong class which can 1 combo you in a 7 sec stagger lock."

    Is that true? A mother F***King 7 second stun lock? Seriously if a class is going to be that overpowered in pvp, it should become worthless in pve to balance it out.

    Well it's not a stagger lock, that's for sure. Ninja fills that role better with JP > Combo > DC > Combo > Stun > DPS Filler > Stagger Star > BS > CoS. Most of it is stagger, with only 1 stun and it's sure to kill most classes.

    Reaper's isn't as long as Ninja's, I know that for sure, but it's still almost as lethal.
  • PalochiPalochi ✭✭✭
    Warrior difficulty 2/10 at best, and 10/10 1v1 FOR SURE. Like the only class that even compares to Warrior in 1v1 is Mystic, and honestly they got nerfed for that and should still lose 1v1 to Warriors unless they're better geared.
    Mystic actually got buffed in 1v1's, the last patch gave Mystics much more ways to survive and they also made Volley have a normal damage + the poison, which gives some more damage..not like you can do it a lot against ppl who actually know what they are doing tho. Before the changes there was one Warrior in my server that could kill me almost everytime if i tried to not use Thrall of Life(he was the only one lol ), now even if i dont i can still survive 80% of the time.
    Healers shouldnt be compared to DPS class tho, so i agree that Warrior is the best class in duels; even tho i disagree that the difficulty to play Warrior would be 2/10 lol..well you can be a backstab hero but you arent playing Warrior if you do that, youre playing Backstab.
  • Id say ninja difficulty is about a 4... and in 1v1 10, id also up the difficulty of zerk to 8 or 9 and warrior in small group id rate it an 8, lancer in mass pvp id rate it a 6 or 5 class needs more dps utility giga is overrated with so many healers floating around and its rng based most people are instantly out. I dont get how ninja out ranked zerk in difficulty. I think it dosnt matter if ninja lacks super armor and blocks. its just like reaper, its mobility and lack of punishable skills and ez execution of combos make up for that. Better yet i dont think any of ninjas skills can be punished you can waste any of ur main dps skills miss stuns and ur still in the game. Ik many good pvpers lancers zerks archers warriors sorcs who are very good pvpers who kno their class very well and how to counter other classes also, who just get dunked on by even a simi decent ninja a class thats almost 3 months old. Ive seen healers who never mained a dps class pick up ninja and just utterly destroy decent pvpers. So unless they are just fast learners i think its a simple class. Its easier for me to combat a decent brawler gunner or reaper than it is to win against decent ninja. id rate ninja difficulty at a 4, lower then gunner. If your going off lack of block, survivability and stagger resist shouldn't reaper be just as difficult. Its like you got special ops on the battlefield and a new weapon just got developed and within 3 months a group of medics with no combat training pick up this new gun an slaughter all the special ops in 1v1 3v3 openworld pk raids and fwc... i dont believe that gun is very difficult to use..
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