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Comments
Rarely happens. I've used IMS hundreds of times and all the bad Brawlers had poor positioning, and low dps which resulted in losing aggro. Only ever saw 1 Brawler legitimately using back crit crystals.
They actually do turn around... Your group probably had low dps than usual, if they don't die quickly they'll turn around for random attacks.
But one thing I know that there are stereotypes developed on the class. I don't blame nor complain the player behind it. However, I do see the design for the class leads to having many brawlers doing WTF moments for the team. In my opinion, the following pros for the class have made most players develop such habits:
- Huge DPS output along with survivability
- The ease of soloing (just personal experience, like I had more difficulty soloing with an archer/sorc than any other class)
- Addictive mobility (who wouldn't want to charge like a rocket? I do lol)
And the following is what I've encountered when matched up the several brawlers
- Goes deep on boss without caring teammates presence. This happens very often, even to the point where the brawler locked herself up with the boss. Yes, we know you can solo without dying but we want to play too T.T
- DPS ing like soloing a IoD bam, aka, moves around, back crit, and such
- Questioning DPS's dmg output (no ninja on team) in a point where the brawler herself starts to trash talk
- Ask if someone can stay at the front when doing static bosses (DFNM) so the brawler can backcrit. I can't even argue because it does seem more efficient due to how much dmg she can deal lol
Of course, there are still many brawlers that does not behave like the points I've mentioned.
Again, I do not blame nor complain the players and I believe everyone is nice around here
and you are....archer, slayer and warrior, and [filtered] mystic.
happy life. happy tree~ :awesome:
I have taken aggro from brawlers as a fresh DPS in idoneal. It is the same logic.
By the time brawlers start getting the experiance they need and snapping out of they slovenly habits, it is too late and they up and quit.
That's my two cents as someone who mostly tanks and heals (DPS isn't my thing, though I can, and do, do it).
So you're saying that the issue with brawlers is that players make them because they hit hard and don't die. Then they que up for IM with that mindset when in reality they are expected to tank. As a result they have neither group nor environmental awareness, both of which are key skills for a tank. Furthermore, since tanking isn't where their true interests lie they don't care to obtain or nurture these skills.
That about it?
Indeed that's the point. Many new brawlers out there just want to dps because the game taught them that if they stand there hitting something enough times, it dies. The game also taught them that brawlers hit harder and easier than most other classes. So they make a brawler for DPS and enter Instances with a full DPS mind. Heck, I wonder how many know that above the instance matching window there's a role selector. And for tank classes, it defaults to tank, the one thing these DPS dust bunnies won't do no matter what. >.<
One thing that gets me is the whole "I don't need agro crystals because I just need to DPS". Indeed, as I'm gearing my tanks, I replace agro crystals for DPS crystals. However it is not necessarily true that you will pull more agro with DPS crystals than with agro crystals (the converse is also not necessarily true). Why do I mention this? Because brawlers, by and large, do not use any agro crystals regardless of whether or not they are holding agro.
I can understand that swapping Keen for Threatening (ear)ring crystals won't do much for your agro, but swapping out a Pounding for a Threatening weapon crystals makes a big difference.
Yesterday I was running KCHM with a brawler that not only lacked agro crystals, but also had a sub-65 power crystal on an earring! The brawler couldn't hold agro worth a damn. The ninja and I, as a mystic, kept pulling agro. From my experience in Tera, it is very hard for the healer to pull agro since agro generation is so heavily DPS-based. Somehow, I was pulling it. I was, after all, healing like a mother [filtered], since we were all taking damage instead of the tank. That tank had other issues too (standing in stupid, et cetera) but the crystals really bothered me. I then, before the final boss, told the group to stop so I could inspect the tank. I called the tank out on the crystal issue. I was then told something to the effect of "I'm full DPS spec which is what is best". To which I responded with a mix of "not with that sub-65 power crystal you're not full DPS spec" and "clearly what you are doing isn't working". I should have asked if the tank knew that we had all queued for hard mode. I actually did that once as a zerker. I was apologizing left and right, emphatically stating that I had never done so poorly before. When I went to claim the VG quest I saw that it was HM. I had been wondering what was up with score on the side (that was the first time I had run a dungeon with that), but didn't want to ask since I was doing so poorly.
edit: On a side note, I'd like to express my opinion that dungeons like KCHM and FI should not have the same item level requirement as DFNM. Save for CW, the low tier 65 dungeons are all about the same difficulty, but DFNM is stupidly easy. It really isn't much harder than ABNM. The fact that dungeon like KCHM have the same item level requirement as DFNM for IM probably doesn't help the situation I mentioned above as it gives a false sense of readiness.
edit2: I know that the first time I healed FI, after running it as a grossly over-geared reaper, I wasn't expecting it to be too much harder tham DFNM. I was wrong.
Brawlers shouldn't be using aggro crystals
Lancers shouldn't be using aggro crystals (ppl dispute?)
Its not 2014 anymore. The formula changed favors DPS and tanks can't be lazy anymore or tank HM dungeons in PVP gear. Get with the program learn your rotations end of story. Only reason you use aggro crystals especially as a lancer is because you are under geared. As for dungeons <65 or <DFNM no one gives rats [filtered] if you can tank or not. Again game isn't 2014 anymore. The power creep is immense and should not be complaining at all period until you first do Kalivan Dread HM when tanking is this game for new players does a complete 180 aka no more face tank DPS only.
Some fun facts:
A full DN lancer w/ perfect rolls and no threat crystals can tank Starfall DPS just fine w/o eclipse potions. A full or 3/4 Imperator DPS is a whole other level and in that case u might need an aggro crystal, but that geared DPS would never party with you in most circumstances anyway.
You clearly didn't read my post very well. I even said that you shouldn't need agro crystals. However, if you are failing to hold agro, then you should use them. You lose a small percentage of your own DPS by swapping out a DPS weapon crystal for an agro crystal. On the other hand your agro generation increases by about 40%-50%. The group DPS loss because you can't hold agro is far more significant.
Green agro crystals should only be used as a sort of tanking training wheels which need to be taken off as soon as possible because like training wheels on a bike they actually cause more problems then they solve once you aren't a total newbie.
So no, Brawler's shouldn't need agro crystals once they learn their class, but should always have a red agro crystal on hand just in case things are going sideways for whatever reason. Also, if you suck (either for gearing or skill reasons) and still need to que (you run dungeons to get the skills and gear needed to not suck) then you also should have green agro crystals on hand, but shouldn't use them unless you really need them.
I think that's what was said in the previous two posts, ultra shortened.. And to shorten it even more, it can be compressed into two words.
To ultra shorten what I said "try to build as much DPS as you can while still holding agro." Also, there are circumstances where you will lose agro even if you are good because someone in the party is just way better (i.e. slaughter tank vs imp DPS). If I were to sum it all up even more I would call it "The Principle of Least Agro Gear".
I'm not that hard on people. Sorry if you thought it that way. I'm more like, If you aren't skilled to do something yet, use help, or training wheels as you just said until you are good enough and confident enough to go where you want to go with your class. Or at least where those you play with expect you to be with the class.
I said it that way because I still see many people blaming low gear for tanks losing aggro. Yes, of course low gear is a contributing factor, and I advise people to get the best gear they can for their class and inform themselves about crystals, etchings, glyphs and rolls. But also an important reason why some tanks lose aggro is because of player skill. Obtaining great gear with perfect rolls is a logistical feat, but keeping a boss in place, and being able to do the right thing at the right time, even when something goes south in the fight for a while, that's where trained tank players shine.
As for who can enter what, while this game doesn't have everything for everybody, there's enough kinds of players to accept the already good and those who are working on getting good into their runs and parties. So basically what players must do to go higher is to practice.
While I did say DN can tank starfall and yes slaughter can tank starfall doesn't mean it's easy. This is an mmo rpg with p2w elements.
To put things in perspective, a lancer with decent rolls ilvl 409 mixed slaughter/DN wallop will crit for 2m range highest. A starfall +15 wallop will crit for 3-4m range and spring attacks can crit for 1m per hit if lucky.
That is a HUGE difference and obviously tht lancer has no excuse losing agro. The dn/ slaughter lancer has to play even more aggressive to keep ahead of sf ppl. Forget about imperator dps, and still do less dps overall than a lazy lancer with a starfall Lance.
Conclusion it's a melting pot of wat u need but gear makes a huge difference and it's night next day between a f2p player vs one who spends.
As for im well not discussing that