Trend of blaming Tanks and Healers by DPS players. Lets talk the problems.

YellowGem · August 2016

Minazuki wrote: »

The problem is not on the role or class - it on the players~
I only blame the players and wont blame the role.

I personally do think that the design of the classes and current state of easy dungeons lead to having such habits developed by the players. I do not think it's the player nor the role is the main factor for most people.

In my experience with several alts' leveling process:

Around lvl 45+, all players who are still noobs can be wtf (includes myself back then ofc). Archer/Sorc tend to not die but not dealing dmg, war/zerk/slayer/reaper tries hard to deal dmg but 0 movements (iframe, backcrit and such) and sometimes dying with healer's constant healing. Gunner spacebar ing on boss's face. Lancer tries everything to hold aggro but didn't know simply dealing dmg can hold aggro. Brawler/ninja doing their own thing (I can't even complain since these two are fairly OP right now, so it is efficient for them to just run in and wipe everything).

Starting from lvl 50+, I still encounters brawlers and ninjas still doing wtf moments while the old classes tend to learned already due to required skill gap.

And by lvl 65 most ninjas have already learned since they prob die quite a few times while brawlers are just starting their learning process of the role in DFNM or KC.

Yamazuki wrote: »

fromsector7 wrote: »

a good dps dont need healer !!!!

So.... You've never been hit by anything at all, or ever died? Not even when the game forces you to take damage or you die?

I'm not sure what @fromsector7 attitude was towards that sentence. But I do think most of the situation when you die it is mostly your own fault (which I do quite often when first timing ilvl 409 dungeons). As the OP mentioned that iFrame is a must. Meaning that if you do take dmg, there should be enough time interval in between for the healer to heal you even through mouse clicking on skill bar.

Yamazuki · August 2016

YellowGem wrote: »

I'm not sure what @fromsector7 attitude was towards that sentence. But I do think most of the situation when you die it is mostly your own fault (which I do quite often when first timing ilvl 409 dungeons). As the OP mentioned that iFrame is a must. Meaning that if you do take dmg, there should be enough time interval in between for the healer to heal you even through mouse clicking on skill bar.

A lot of the times I see someone dying it was easily preventable by the healer honestly, or it's because the healer died and well then everyone else does eventually unless the boss has no mechanics that force damage and everyone plays perfectly. There's also the issue with a majority of healers for some reason not wanting to give mana to their group either. I've also lost count how many times a healer takes not just a few seconds, but almost a full minute just to heal me in SSHM at Imperator after cage debuffs (or if I accidentally got hit by anything). When this happens, it means I have to not make a single mistake, hope I don't desync (since i'm using a wireless connection), and hope there are no invisible [filtered] to hit me if mobs are not killed. Some instances are also healer dependent, like ABHM 2nd boss. I'm sure it's the dps/tanks fault they died to unavoidable damage, or how about the group up mechanics where Priest doesn't Kaia's then cleanse (like in MM)?

Another thing to keep in mind, most instances dps should learn what to face tank to get higher dps, since lets face it, most people aren't even doing Slaying runs. If my partner is healing, I'll face tank anything that won't kill me since she's not a lazy healer.

It's pointless in trying to pretend healers are somehow never responsible for any failures of the group.

salE983 · August 2016

Deathologist wrote: »

@salE983: I mentioned both classes problems and mistakes. When we mention problems, then it can be a source for some current players and new players to see the problems and mistakes that they shouldn't do.

this is the problem

1) you level up a character to 65 in 1 day (elite exp and with buddy-up code even in 6h)
2) you rush through dungeons (most classes soloing every dungeon till labyrinth of terror)
3) you get slaughter way too easy and get item level 414
4) with that level you can queue even for SSHM

ridiculous
5) you have no idea about basics of the game and previous dungeons taught you nothing, so you die in first 5 seconds on a boss in hardest dungeons, you become a trap and they kick you...why cause game awarded you with 4 mutinous and you think that is what you must have on level 65

i blame the game, levelling is too fast, too easy, gets you there in harder dungeons and you still have no idea what iframe means
levelling dungeons need to be challening, healers need to not stand in 1 corner and wait for the rest of the party to finish the boss in 10 seconds...they need to learn to clense (give a boss insane dot that will kill you in 5 seconds so when that healer ends up dead on the floor he will maybe ask himslef "what can i do to help?")

Deathologist · August 2016

salE983 wrote: »

Deathologist wrote: »

@salE983: I mentioned both classes problems and mistakes. When we mention problems, then it can be a source for some current players and new players to see the problems and mistakes that they shouldn't do.

this is the problem

1) you level up a character to 65 in 1 day (elite exp and with buddy-up code even in 6h)
2) you rush through dungeons (most classes soloing every dungeon till labyrinth of terror)
3) you get slaughter way too easy and get item level 414
4) with that level you can queue even for SSHM ridiculous
5) you have no idea about basics of the game and previous dungeons taught you nothing, so you die in first 5 seconds on a boss in hardest dungeons, you become a trap and they kick you...why cause game awarded you with 4 mutinous and you think that is what you must have on level 65

i blame the game, levelling is too fast, too easy, gets you there in harder dungeons and you still have no idea what iframe means
levelling dungeons need to be challening, healers need to not stand in 1 corner and wait for the rest of the party to finish the boss in 10 seconds...they need to learn to clense (give a boss insane dot that will kill you in 5 seconds so when that healer ends up dead on the floor he will maybe ask himslef "what can i do to help?")

I agree with leveling is bad, ages ago it was so hard and long, and now it is so fast and no training, no nothing, before GL you barely need to iFrame anything. The leveling revamp and the video guides are a must. Leveling is way too important, it can create a very good taste on any kind of player and make things interesting.

SaphirKanzaki · August 2016

5H96Y49G6D wrote: »

The only thing DPS should die from is if they constantly steal aggro from tank (another day) or 1 shots. Everything else IS healers responsibility. No one said your job would be easy.

Healers responsibilities:
- rest of the group has no crystals
- rest of the group has no idea about the boss mechanics (e.g. Kalivan not going to stunned player)
- rest of the group constantly jump into red danger zones
- rest of the group focus on boss instead on adds. Healer draw add aggro
- whole group does so little damage that that airship exploded with 4 blackpowder explosions ("rage-timer")
- DPS player does mainly auto-attack (see low damage output)
- many more

I see, I have a lot of responsibilties as priestess. Even once, when I was in CW with my priestess, someone opened the 2nd healer (usually I open the statues).

Generalizing is the real problem.

Pocah · August 2016

There are far too many people who are willing to "define the problems" when really it all comes down to the fact that there are good players, bad players, serious players and casual players. That will never change. There's no point in getting angry at a player that's not in the same "class" of players as yourself. Folks should understand that everyone is different and when you enter a dungeon there will be a mix of people in there. The aim is not to patronise the team to death, becuase that will result in team failure, rather it's to constructively help the team to win. So stop defining the problems and instead define the solutions! It's a team effort.

Ilostit · August 2016

I main a priest. I understand the fact that priests lately have a hard time healing a dps who doesn't dodge any mechanics, dps that doesn't charm theirself and complain about that i don't give them any mana. But then again some of the dps doesn't even know anything about the priest class and just think they are mystics or whatever. ( Someone asked me to drop motes ) If the tank doesn't keep the boss at one place and keeps losing aggro what makes everyone get hit > harder for the healer to heal. Or when the dps does a low amount of damage and it takes forever.

> Give a priest more love please

YellowGem · August 2016

Yamazuki wrote: »

YellowGem wrote: »

I'm not sure what @fromsector7 attitude was towards that sentence. But I do think most of the situation when you die it is mostly your own fault (which I do quite often when first timing ilvl 409 dungeons). As the OP mentioned that iFrame is a must. Meaning that if you do take dmg, there should be enough time interval in between for the healer to heal you even through mouse clicking on skill bar.

A lot of the times I see someone dying it was easily preventable by the healer honestly, or it's because the healer died and well then everyone else does eventually unless the boss has no mechanics that force damage and everyone plays perfectly. There's also the issue with a majority of healers for some reason not wanting to give mana to their group either. I've also lost count how many times a healer takes not just a few seconds, but almost a full minute just to heal me in SSHM at Imperator after cage debuffs (or if I accidentally got hit by anything). When this happens, it means I have to not make a single mistake, hope I don't desync (since i'm using a wireless connection), and hope there are no invisible [filtered] to hit me if mobs are not killed. Some instances are also healer dependent, like ABHM 2nd boss. I'm sure it's the dps/tanks fault they died to unavoidable damage, or how about the group up mechanics where Priest doesn't Kaia's then cleanse (like in MM)?

Another thing to keep in mind, most instances dps should learn what to face tank to get higher dps, since lets face it, most people aren't even doing Slaying runs. If my partner is healing, I'll face tank anything that won't kill me since she's not a lazy healer.

It's pointless in trying to pretend healers are somehow never responsible for any failures of the group.

It is correct that healers have responsibility for teammates' death. But as you mentioned: priest's kaia and cleanse, you gotta still give room for the healers to be able to cast these. I've had many instance runs where I have no opportunity to cleanse since I need to constantly spam heals for dps who doesn't dodge. The actual "healing" would be the least factor for a teammate to die at least imo.

I tend to play dps like there's no healer and I play healer like everyone is a bot who just spam autos lol. Ofc it won't be perfect, but I do find myself improving this way.

Ves1978 · August 2016

it always healer's fault, especially in corsair. it doesn't matter if you're the only priest in team, your kaia's must work on everyone. it doesn't matter that it works only on 5 people, make it work for 20. it doesn't matter that it absorbs less dmg than siege will make with one shot. IT'S YOUR FAULT NOOB!!!! ok, enough sarcasm, trash people will always blame the others, nice people won't make drama even if there was a wipe.

Ilythien · August 2016

About healers, oh my!! The most complex relationship on game ever xD. People are always complaining about healer, but also giving them congratulations.
I miss the time when I used to main healer, but probably it will not happen so soon again.
But, I will give you a tip: if you wanna play another game while playing TERA, go healer xD.

Pixelator · August 2016

As a dps, if one or even two of the other dps are bad, you can probably still carry. If the healer(s) and to a lesser extent, tank, are bad... no way jose. That's why inadequacy in the healer and tank roles are noticed quite easily.

Baldurdash · August 2016

There are a lot of people I have partied with that are total floormats. Sometimes it gets to the point where I would be better off dpsing instead while they should stop dealing damage and practice dodging. Of course no one wants to be told to hit the bench especially from a healer, so I generally just res spam on them until the rest of the party deals with the boss.

BusinessCat · August 2016

What I think he wanted to say with this thread is that it is not ALWAYS the healer/tank fault... Sometimes of course its... but sometimes its dps fault too.. Just get SSHM as example.. if ONE dps dies, and there is only ONE healer.. he needs to stop baiting, move to the back, ress him avoid the double circles dmg, heal, buff and then go back to work at the front of boss again....If another dps dies in this process, more time taken from healer, less baiting time, less dmg...
They need to know how to avoid things too.. when im playing dps, if i know i can take some dmg without dying and without messing up with the healer rotation, i will.. but lets not forget that even healers skills got cooldown.. kaia might not be up at the moment, or the priest might be saving it for something... you cant assume its always ready...
Notice that, when someone dies, and the healers is ressin and buffin, usually another dps dies... but they just ignore the fact that the healer is busy doing something else...
on low lvl dungeons, how many times there are mobs or minions chasing the healers and dps do NOTHING about it??

Feii · August 2016

5H96Y49G6D wrote: »

DPS is easy though.

In most cases it is the Healers/Tanks fault.

Waiting 2m+ for a heal?
Mystics ONLY using motes to heal party (like seriously return and Mystics still heal that way)?
No energy stars
No corruption
Incorrect positioning?

Like a DPS can only take so much BS granted they are not perfect either, but for most boss fights job is suppose to be easy and game is very much tank n spank/ dodge whenever you have purple aggro. 1 shots fine, but anything else entirely the healers fault some will call em out for it. Problem is most don't because well a crap healer is better than no healer.

If your healer just stands around and spams only motes, uses no party buffs or boss debuffs, then no, they are not a good healer. But I rarely see these kinds of healers (I guess I don't IM dungeons <_<)

But if you're a DPS who died because you were face tanking or because the healer is focusing on healing the party through a certain mechanic, then it's not their fault. I've seen DPS that can literally die 6 times within a minute and at that point you just learn to leave them there and focus on the rest of the party, yet the DPS will still complain its your fault they died so much.

People give healers a lot of BS, like someone above said, we can't heal stupid. -.-

Deathologist · August 2016

well, some good points were shown, hope see more to keep ppl updated about their roles.

Trend of blaming Tanks and Healers by DPS players. Lets talk the problems.

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