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Regarding Heal/Utility Skills in Duels

edited August 2016 in PvP Discussion
Long story short, two people were dueling. One was a Sorc and one was a Gunner. The Gunner used her HB-1 during the duel, which caused the Sorc to complain about "pocket heals." The Sorc then wanted a rematch without the HB-1. She's basically preventing someone from using one of their class abilities. I've talked to some friends about this but we all seem to have some quite different opinions.

A few opinions from myself and some other players:
My opinions:
- Kinda BS since I believe that one should not be restricted to what skills you can and cannot use.
- When dueling a class, you'll have to deal with their tricks, its part of their kit.
- If you're dueling a mystic, you'll have to deal with both their thralls and their healing. Why should it matter with a gunner?
- I do understand that sometimes people ask for no heals, but she didn't in this case.

Friend A:
-Believes it is fair for the Sorc since she didn't have any heals herself.
- Considers it a handicap.
- Agrees that HB-1 shouldn't be allowed to use in duels.

Friend B:
- Agrees that it is slighty BS.
- "If shes gonna say that, then might as well not use mystic thralls, lancer heals, priest/mystic heals, sorc buffs, or anything else that has to deal with utility."

Some Randoms in Area Chat:
- Gunners shouldn't be able to use that robot in duels because it can do more than just heal. They can pull you back, heal you, and damage you.
- Sorcs have a shield anyways, why does it matter?
- Gunners are actually pretty tanky, so they really don't need that "pocket heal"
- "Learn to deal with it."

What do you guys think about this matter? I'd like to hear some other people's opinion on this. (No, I'm not trying to say that anyone's opinion is wrong nor right. I'm thoroughly curious about your opinions. I'll be asking a lot of questions as I like learning about how some people interpret certain things in multiple ways.)
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Comments

  • Priest, mystic and lancer heals are generally considered bad manners in duels. Shouts and barries seem to be frowned on too. I haven't heard many opinions on HB though, because the amount is fairly low for high-end duels. Might be different for lowbie fights.

    That said, with ninjas around, an entire class based on Bad Manner cheese dodges, iframes, staggers, backstabs and high damage, I say all bets are off. <Salt>

    I'd just ask the people someone might be dueling with about any heal/barrier/boost skills beforehand, to be honest.
  • I think if you cant beat new classes you need to work hard in you main class, new classes like gunner are easy to defeat in pvp, need perfect timing and youll be fine dueling against them.
  • The basic rule to follow is: the player that wins only did so by being bm, and is a giant noob.
    The player that loses is a noob for losing and should be mocked for all eternity based on that 1 duel
  • KetiKeti ✭✭
    Afaik bm skills would be...

    Lancer second wind and RC (maybe not rc after nerf)
    Slayer ICB and exhausting blow
    Archer glyphed feign death
    Brawler heal
    Reaper shadow reaping
    Ninja shen W ripoff
    Sorc mana drain, mana barrier probably could be considered bm but never has been.

    I do believe in bm skills but I don't think bot is one of them.
  • YuhataYuhata ✭✭✭
    If it's part of their kit it should be expected to be used against you. Dueling is supposed to be for practice, so how would it help you to limit the skills to be used while dueling?
    I wouldn't waste the glyph points on feign death tho.
  • KetiKeti ✭✭
    Archer feign death is stronk as hell in duels.
  • YuhataYuhata ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Ya, it is. The way I see it tho, if I couldn't kill them before they kill me they deserve the win. Lol. It is frustrating to get certain skills used against you in duels, sure, but doesn't mean I will do the same. Besides, if I really wanted to heal during fight I would save the glyph points for something else and just use a pot. Kek.
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    If a class can't use all of its skills, then the duel is pointless.

    If it's a real PvP fight in a GvG or BG, they'd be using those skills. So in a duel it should be no different, since the main point of dueling is too learn how to PvP better.

    Now, consumables are a different matter, and should be agreed upon beforehand. Burning nocteniums can get expensive if you duel a lot, for example, so it makes sense to agree not to use them.
  • KetiKeti ✭✭
    The reason some skills are bm is because they trivialize the duel or are on super long CDs so you won't typically have to deal with them.
  • edited August 2016
    Keti wrote: »
    Afaik bm skills would be...

    Lancer second wind and RC (maybe not rc after nerf)
    Slayer ICB and exhausting blow
    Archer glyphed feign death
    Brawler heal
    Reaper shadow reaping
    Ninja shen W ripoff
    Sorc mana drain, mana barrier probably could be considered bm but never has been.

    I do believe in bm skills but I don't think bot is one of them.

    Don't forget Bloodlust + Mocking Shout for Berserker. And if playing on DStance (Unchained Anger) is also BM because it heals. Same with Tenacity if glyphed for healing. Many use these fuckery skills in duels to have some sort of advantage to win. Kinda BS.
  • As some of you have stated, HB-1 is not considered a BM skill. I can think of multiple skill concepts that people may find BM. Some consider long iFrames to be BM, while others consider class restricted self buffs to be BM. What kind of skills do you consider to be BM?
  • i dont typically heal myself in duels as a mystic as i can usually finish them off without too much trouble.

    hb regen isnt too bad. brawler and lancer heal skills r bs tho and it triggers me so hard when players use them in duels when im a healer and dont even heal myself in them.
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    IMO HB-1 isn't BM because gunner needs it for so much more, but the heal it grants is deceptively larger than most realize. It actually heals more HP/s than Brawlers heal. If you sit back and let it heal you while looking at a stopwatch you really start to notice just how [filtered] that bot is.

    So the way I see it, HB is fine but when dueling a gunner it should be considered an exception for lancers/Brawlers/etc to be able to use their own self heal as well. But again, only when dueling gunners.

  • I think if you cant beat new classes you need to work hard in you main class, new classes like gunner are easy to defeat in pvp, need perfect timing and youll be fine dueling against them.

    That's because most of them are inexperienced. Go against a good one and you'll be screaming your head off till it explodes. I really mean it. They have so many "get-out-of jail skills" I can go ahead and list all of them.
    1.Retaliate
    2.HB-1 : summon for KD
    3.HB-1 : Grappling Hook that saves gunners from finishing blows and KDs on wasted retals.
    4. Exploding Summons to stun you.
    5. Plus Death-Cheating skill if it's not a friendly duel.

    Their stun combo pretty much wipes out 80% of your hp and will damn well kill any cloth-armor classes. Point Blank -> Stun Grenade -> Time Mine -> Arcane Barrage -> Option 1: Reload -> Arcane Barrage, Option 2: Reload -> Mana Missiles -> Arcane Barrage

    Not even a brawler has that many "get out of jail" skill.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    The one thing I want is simple: Make HB killable XD (make it pretty tanky but still killable).

    The only problem about HB is when you are playing against a person that just runs about the whole map, the HB bot by itself can heal for like one or even two of their whole HP bars, and also they do a little too much damage pvpwise for a bonus.

    However much, I will say this. Spamming Celerity-ed Fireball on a stunned player is BM.

    For sorc Mana barrier is never BM, compared to HB's healing the barrier only gives you that little extra of sustain XD.
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