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Regarding Heal/Utility Skills in Duels

2

Comments

  • Gunner bot is perfectly fine in duels. Recall and bot stun are both core gunner spells that rely on the bot (and bot positioning is a big part of playing gunner), and the HB bot heal is pretty minor in duels if you know what you're doing.
    Keti wrote: »
    The reason some skills are bm is because they trivialize the duel or are on super long CDs so you won't typically have to deal with them.

    For the other classes, Keti sums it up pretty well. For people the PvP scene on MT, there's a certain etiquette people follow for duels, which includes some spells being banned because they're disproportionately strong in 1v1.

    People generally won't use 2min self buffs (ICB, gamble, arush, etc) in duels, as well as other long cd spells like smoke cloud or balders. Besides these, the main ones I can think of off the top of my head are:

    Slayer eblow
    Sorc mana tap
    Lancer rally and second wind (sometimes iron will)
    Brawler self heal (sometimes)

    Eblow and mana tap are primarily because there's no real counter play. If you get hit by an eblow or mana tap, you basically lost the duel already against anyone even remotely competent at their class. Rally's similar in the sense that its 8 seconds of stagger and KD immunity that you can't do anything about (Although zerker mocking shout is fair game in duels for whatever reason. Probably just because lancers are ridiculously strong in 1v1 even without rally). Second wind and brawler heal are frowned upon because they're big burst heals.
  • Saxblade wrote: »
    I think if you cant beat new classes you need to work hard in you main class, new classes like gunner are easy to defeat in pvp, need perfect timing and youll be fine dueling against them.

    That's because most of them are inexperienced. Go against a good one and you'll be screaming your head off till it explodes. I really mean it. They have so many "get-out-of jail skills" I can go ahead and list all of them.
    1.Retaliate
    2.HB-1 : summon for KD
    3.HB-1 : Grappling Hook that saves gunners from finishing blows and KDs on wasted retals.
    4. Exploding Summons to stun you.
    5. Plus Death-Cheating skill if it's not a friendly duel.

    Their stun combo pretty much wipes out 80% of your hp and will [filtered] well kill any cloth-armor classes. Point Blank -> Stun Grenade -> Time Mine -> Arcane Barrage -> Option 1: Reload -> Arcane Barrage, Option 2: Reload -> Mana Missiles -> Arcane Barrage

    Not even a brawler has that many "get out of jail" skill.

    I agree Gunners are [filtered] aids.
  • xvctxvct ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Saxblade wrote: »
    1.Retaliate - Every class has this. EVERYONE. Lmao why is this on the list.
    2.HB-1 : summon for KD - Every class has at least 1 KD. Like Reapers, Gunners have 2. That's not even a lot compared to Warriors/Zerks.
    3.HB-1 : Grappling Hook that saves gunners from finishing blows and KDs on wasted retals. - Recall is pretty OP I'll admit. The only skill in the game that allows the caster to get themselves up from a KD besides Retal. And it's the only skill in the game that gets the caster out of a stagger combo after the first hit.
    4. Exploding Summons to stun you. - 11 out of 12 classes have at least 1 stun. Gunners have 2. That's not a lot compared to Warriors.
    5. Plus Death-Cheating skill if it's not a friendly duel.- All new classes and the Zerk have this. It's pretty terrible, but I guess that's the direction the game is taking.

    Actually, I just got what you were saying, so nvm all the above.
    HB Summon and Detonate don't have a terribly short CD so I think they are fine. It just takes a different strategy to work around them.
  • xvctxvct ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Saxblade wrote: »
    Their stun combo pretty much wipes out 80% of your hp and will [filtered] well kill any cloth-armor classes. Point Blank -> Stun Grenade -> Time Mine -> Arcane Barrage -> Option 1: Reload -> Arcane Barrage, Option 2: Reload -> Mana Missiles -> Arcane Barrage

    Please see colored portions. You would have recovered from Time Bomb+AB at this point and have time to dodge and block the rest of the combo.




    Ping permitting.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    Troyzerk wrote: »
    I play PVP intimidation zerk for 1v1 combat. Gunners using their HB-7 robots vs zerks is pretty BM imo. The berserker can only combo someone through knockdowns. No stun combos. No stagger combos. Nothing like that. So already every class has a FAIR chance to escape our combos every single time we try to initiate (retaliate) But now against the gunner? It's a ranged class so already has advantage vs zerk. Then you have Retaliate + HB-7 + Robot self destruct stun and combos that don't rely on enemy retaliate not being on CD. We have no high mobility teleports so its easy for them to run away like plebs and NEVER get comboed by a zerk.
    The gunner has far too many opportunities to very very very easily escape berserker and TO ANYONE OUT THERE whos gonna be all like " but omg zerk TS do so much damage! zerk TS op!!" Our bloodlust has NO effect in pvp anymore. 0% damage and the thunderstrike pvp damage was reduced by a [filtered] MASSIVE 30%. Well 40% if you count the fact that bloodlust is no longer affecting pvp. The zerk TS doesn't for anything more than 15-20k usually. Maybe 30k+ (back crits r like 40-50k depending on if you are equal armor type & gear or not. THAT INCLUDES BOOTS/GLOVES!) if the stars allign and you somehow get a critical hit and crits don't happen that often in PVP and thats relying on one hit to crit.
    So with that many advantages? and 3 get out of jail free cards against a class that has no way to really "get in" on you, yeah. I think HB-7 vs zerk with the gunner is BM in duels. As someone stated before it "trivializes the duel". By the time you KD a gunner, and they run away with rocket jump and if you KD them a 2nd time, they pull with HB-7 to get away from you again. If youre lucky enough to catch them a 3rd time then since zerk is melee type class, letting HB-7 come over and explode to stun you is easy (so i literally need to iframe your [filtered] robot to combo you after already catching you twice already...???) then by the time that robot explodes, retaliate is already back on CD. and this is all happening in rapid succession. Any half baked gunner would never get caught THAT many times. And anyone who has dueled a zerk isn't dumb enough to get caught by stray thunderstrikes thrown at them.

    As for all the other [filtered]? If its a skill and its an important part of your class, use it. But [filtered] like that up there ^ ? [filtered] no :\ thats just too far. The zerker already has to catch anyone twice in a row to be able to get in those "knockdown" combos. While every other class in the game? Just one touch and they get a full combo of like 40% of your HP. But zerk has to get you twice in a short period of time to combo. Otherwise you'll never get that famous "omg thunderstrike" sort of hit to happen.

    It is part of their kit though. It is a huge part of the class's identity in PvP and PvE. They're supposed to be hard to catch and kill and be easily able to kite melee classes. It's like Warriors vs Reapers/Ninjas. There's nothing wrong with having classes be countered by others.
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    @Polaire If you are winning duels as a mystic without healing, I question the skill of the players you are dueling. Either that, or I'd like to know your secret!

    If self healing is considered BM for ANY class in a duel, then that person IMO isn't even worth dueling, because it means their skills are what's actually bad!

    Personally, duel me, and you can burn every damn cd you have! If I can't handle it, then I need to face it to learn how to!
  • KetiKeti ✭✭
    Lancer detected
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2016
    Actually, considering I play a mystic, I'm affected adversely by self healing more than most, since my damage is slow and over time.

    But honestly, the self healing classes give me less trouble than say, a skilled ninja or warrior. (We'll, not counting other healers, which is a stalemate.)
  • If you're doing 'gentlemen' duels. Any restrictions the two parties want in place for the duel should be laid out beforehand.

    Generally though. My view on dueling in games has always been "practice for actual fights". You can't stop in the middle of a BG or Arena, and ask your opponent not to use a specific skill (even less so on a PvP server when you get jumped by someone trying to PK). So treat your duels like you're in it to win it and go all out. After all, dueling someone you've handicapped by asking them to not use certain skills isn't going to make you a better player.

    The one exception to this imo, is generally health pots. And not because popping health pots in duels is 'cheesy'. But because health pots cost money, and seriously, who wants to waste money practicing? :P
  • KetiKeti ✭✭
    Aren't many pvpers perpetually impoverished?
  • Mobius1Mobius1 ✭✭✭
    Well, health pots and nocteniums can add up, if you duel a lot.

    I understand why some prefer not to allow certain high cd skills in duels. VO has certain basic rules simply to save the time of having to explain to everyone you fight, which is why they would be considered BM there. But self healing is not BM.

    But if someone wants to use those high cd skills, all they need do is let their opponent agree to it before the fight.

    So basically, the key is to ask before you duel! And don't run your mouth when you win or lose :D
  • Most of the people in this thread sound like they've never actually dueled random people in VO before. There's a lot of ignorance going around.
  • Derpybowl wrote: »
    Clearly you dont duel or spend enough time at VO to understand.

    VO is a club thats on all servers and clubs have rules. Most important rule of these clubs is to fight fair and with respect. If you use one of the mentioned skills in a duel then its clear to everyone at VO that you dont respect your opponent and most importantly you dont respect VO.

    Pretty much every classes have a skill that is on the bad manners list so its not handicapping anyone as much as it is respecting that some things are unfair and one should learn how to fight without it.


    Also that comment on health pots lewl are there still poor ppl in this game?

    Clearly you either didn't read, or didn't understand what I said. So let me clarify for you. In regards to your statement about VO being a 'club' with 'rules'. If you notice the VERY first thing I said, about 'gentlemen' duels. That statement was in regards to that. The duels in VO are imo generally 'gentlemen' duels. However, if someone is new, they won't know about the 'rules' for those duels. So they need to be laid out ahead of time.

    The second part of my statement was a generalized statement for all games which is precisely why I said "Generally though, my view on dueling in GAMES", not, my view on dueling in TERA.

    Lastly, my statement about health pots was half serious, half silly. I do think it's bad manners to use health pots in duels in most games. But the second part of that statement was me being silly, which is why I followed the statement up with ':P'.
  • My outlook is this: If you want to pvp, take into account that only players' "respect of others" keeps them from using certain skills. Banning someone from using a "self heal" or a "cc prevent skill" while you throw damage and cc chains at them is just silly, if a class has a skill in their toolkit let them use it. Pots and items are obviously not skill related or class related and should not be considered for duels but let's face it, there will always be that one pvper that pots right as his opponent is about to strike the finishing blow. If you're 1v1 someone then you should know that their class has some trickery and learn to counter it, for example zerk vs gunner: zerk kd's gunner, gunner uses recall, zerk counts to 3 and uses axe-throw skill, then casually walks over and proceeds to lay the pipe. sure that's not how it works all the time because of player skill, but it's not like that recall doomed the zerk or completely saved the gunner. There's lots of matchups like this and pvp is a rock-paper-scissors game, but remember it's a game and dulling the scissors or hollowing out the rock isn't the point of the game.
  • Is it a common thing to "ban" long CD abilities in duels? I do duel occasionally, but not seriously, so I wouldn't know. I prefer to watch duels.
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