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Comments
So, you tell the party you are going to tank, they are fine with it, you recruit a DD and then one of the people who were aware that you are going to tank reacts with "zomg, zerk tank" and drops. Do you often play with people who have severe short term memory problems?
Saying that a tank is good, average or crap based on their dps is really not a good thing to judge a tank on. Sure we expect tanks to do certain amount of damage but there are other areas they are judged on as well. For tanks to do a lot of damage, it's heavily dependent on the skill of the party and the composition. Stuff like how good the dps is so it reaches boss next enrage timer, how good people keep up debuff uptimes, and how things go at a boss (when things mess up, things are bad). Of course human error is normal and it happens but when things go perfect, a good tank can do really well.
The meta is just not how much dps a tank can out put but how good of a tank he/she is overall. There is a lot involved for a tank to be real good. Being a good dps lancer for example is like an amazing thing to achieve imo but takes a lot of learning to reach that once someone learned lancer pretty well. I understand some tanks don't do much damage while others do a lot. Does this separate them from the other tanks? Probably but they may be really good in other areas. Just saying that if a tank does less than 700k/s and saying their crap, doesn't really mean they are bad. There are other areas that affect that which isn't the tanks fault most times. Now if the party is amazing and tank does that amount where it should be higher, then you can critique the tank based on its damage assuming they do good on other areas.
So for me as lancer I can average about ~700-800k/s on my most of my runs and if lucky I can reach 900k/s and close to 1m sometimes. Does that say I'm a crap tank? I also average somewhere between 27-40 percent team dps. Most of my parties are about average or good but not godly like other parties. I reached 989k/s at 1st boss sshm just few days ago, which was my best ever and it was just with a good party. I think if there were very godly dps in the party, they help reach the next enrage timer much faster, helping lancer to keep up its dps more; that's what I believe. And 786k/s (41 percent of team dps) at Imperator, which I think is really good considering the two times I can't attack during shield phases. And my parties like I said are mostly average to good.
As someone who played (plays) warrior tank the fact that it's even come to this is absurd and absolutely stupid.
Back when I last played in SCHM I don't remember the specifics but I was doing over 10% of DPS and that was good for the time, and I had to work to make sure that aggro was maintained. I had +15 aggro gloves, the aggro brooch, +15 swords that were spec'd for highest aggro damage...
I think at that time, tanking was balanced. If you were good you could do some fun things, and it honestly baffles me why they threw it out the window for this garbage we have now.
It's no skill braindead tanking that is king now. No tact or skill required. Don't even have to care what direction you face cause bosses don't push you anymore. Nah in SCHM you had to face a certain direction or you get pushed into the wall and die, now just plant your stupid brawler anywhere and spam braindead skills.
Sad. This type of thinking is what keeps the FOTM machine rolling and tells the devs it's ok to nerf older classes to the ground in order to milk more cash from people through new FOTM stuff. My opinion, though.
And that's how we got huurrr durrr brawler and huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu iframe goooo Ninja.
It has to get as bad as Sorc before they do anything apparently. Too bad they probably look at warriors and go "EHHHH they can dps" and just continue to ignore how [filtered] it is. A good start for warrior is to let them use A-stance and D-stance at the same time.
How does the consequence of an action cause the action exactly?
I'm both happy and sad nexon is in charge tho, Nexon likes to revamp the older classes in games. Constantly. but r.i.p. unique race animations, that's what's standing in the way of more revamps and classes
It basically says an expectation (or belief of something to be true) promotes actions that in turn cause said expectation (or belief) to become a reality. Such as saying something will (or did) fail, and then you (or others around you) make decisions that causes said failure to happen (or become true).
The fact of Elin being the most popular race did not align with the expectation of the developers. While yes, a female was expected to do well for NA for an example, how ever that was Female Castanic. Elin was expected to be ignored, however, reality did not align with that expectation. Elin went on to being the most picked race, even for classes where other races were actually better than Elin. Keep in mind, these numbers for Elin being the most popular in NA occurred long before Reaper was even added. The multiple Elin locked classes, and ultimately female classes, is a consequence of the fact the majority preferred female characters. Even from a cultural expectation, Elin would not be popular, yet it still happened anyways.
It would be easier to keep track of your point if you weren't constantly changing it. First it was about a lot of players not being keen on zerk tanks. Then it became about players being surprised by your decision to tank and dropping the party. Now, it seems, they are no longer being surprised by it, just a minority of players choose to leave the party after you offer to tank.
Also, calling people who don't want suboptimal classed in the party "spoiled rotten" is beyond spoiled, rotten and selfish. I did AB HM(when it first came out) in a 2 sorc party. Do you have any idea how hard that was on the healer? No, of course you don't. In your mind, you are entitled to play the class you want and anyone who doesn't want to be subjected to that is a bad guy. How dare they consider their own fun before thinking of what you want and like.
As for the self-fulfilling prophecy... You do realise more people were playing female classes BEFORE they released reaper, right? It's not like prior to reaper everybody was rocking a male aman and then BHS was like "let's make it elin". And if your choice of class becomes a detriment to the party and the enjoyment of others, they have every right to reject you. You can stick to it as much as you like but if you are not pulling your own weight and performing at an acceptable level, that's your problem. It applies to class, skill, gear, build. Suck it up or reroll, don't expect others to bow to you just because you are really good at being suboptimal.
Zerker tank is a for fun thing that has never been viable since its creation. You absolutely need infuriate in any serious high end run. Feel free to IMS DF though.
I was under the impression that this is a discussion, not a place for zerk tanks to pat each on the back without getting interrupted by the other side.
You were talking about the same people the entire time. Yet, their numbers and reactions kept changing from post to post.
Because we were a static and there were benefits to getting vm3.5 for the sorcs as, at that point, sorcs were still bringing a lot to the table in other dungeons. It was a decision made by friends to help friends.
Except I never tried to convince people that they should put up with my class choices nor did I go to the forum to insult those who didn't. I maintain a number of geared chars and swap between them based on the needs of the party. If I feel that a certain class I have will not perform as well as a different class(or char), I either switch or accept that I don't get to go this time.
The healer was well aware of what he was getting into and was perfectly OK with it. Plenty of other healers flat out refused to deal with sorcs in that dungeon yet, hypocritical as I am, I never called them "spoiled rotten", I didn't do baby crying noises when they presented their reasons for refusing to put up with sorcs, I didn't sit down and explain to them just how awesome and famous I am and how they have to accept me or I'll go to the forum and call them names. But, hey, I'm sure I'm the entitled one and not you.
I understand your points, though I still stand by mine. Sure, doesn't mean I can't be wrong. And I believe even opinions can be wrong. I was mainly addressing the other poster's quote from his friend about telling people to reroll if their class becomes less powerful than something else. Through that thinking, every tank should be a Brawler (or Lancer if they already got better) every dps should be a ninja and every healer should be a mystic. Would be the classes version of what people already thinks about class setups and rotations(you know the whole "there's only one best rotation" and all that stuff).
Personally I'd reroll only if I myself am not happy with something about the class. Be it how it plays or my performance on it. But rerolling simply because other classes are stronger? Because others want me to reroll? No. Damm me to heII but that's not how I operate.
If your character is suboptimal, people have the right to reject you. Asking to be accepted while mocking the reasons others give for not accepting you is the absolute worst way to go about it. Meet people, prove yourself to them, play the way to you want with people who are OK with it. But don't expect everyone to be OK with it.
The game is set so everyone can reject everyone. I think that while this thread may have some pepper on it (not salt) coming from OP's way of speaking, the main message to me is not to impose classes currently deemed inferior into other people's faces. It is more to give awareness that other than FOTM, there's something else out there and there's people who plays those classes well. A message that, if people are rejecting a class just because someone else told them so and they themselves could accept it if they saw it with their own eyes, well, people should see stuff with their own eyes to see if they like or not.
Though in the end, it's the choice of people to accept the message as well. This thread should tell people, "we are here too." Or something like that.
Save your elitist/pro thinking to your own static please.
Possibility is what make a game fun.
Oh and do DFNM really need a tank... +15 already... why bother having a tank or not in IMS...
IMS not your static... stop freaking limit what other like to play as long as they doing what their role need to do.
2m/s brawler on queen... how many able to put it? is this happen in IMS or static?