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VM6 vs VM7 vs conflates in pvp
Hi, it's Guild.Member from NA tera MT server.
I have been looking for some real experimental data for the comparison of VM6, VM7 and conflate, but all I found (from all kind of forums) were just a guess, not a real data. Indeed, I found some experimental data in KTERA forum (inven), but they just compared conflates with VM7 +12. However, lots of people think that results were for VM7 +15 vs conflates. So I have tested for the comparison of VM6, VM7 and conflate gears with my friends for over a month.
I know people hate to take a look at the raw data on my spread sheet, so I am writing just the results from my experiment.
# Expermental conditions
- all same glyphs
- pvp-based options on gears
- all same accessaries, options, and etchings
- no red/blue crystals (weap, chest)
- kept 120 stamina with panaceaic bolster
- no other buffs but vanguard vigor (accquired from 7-day log in, 6 power)
- skills used for the test: fireblast, roundhouse kick, and zenobia's vortex - all skills showed same diffeneces correspond to gears
# Results
# Discussion
For now(Sept 15th, 2016), conflate gears are way worse than VM6 or VM7 for pvp than most people's guess. Also, VM6 armors are surprisingly good for pvp compared to VM7 armors. Full VM6(+15) armors took only 1.43% more frontal and 1.39% more behind damage than full VM7(+15).
We all know conflates gears will get buffed when new dungeons come out. Hoever, it will be still questionable that the buffed conflates will overcome 20% differences in pvp.
I have been looking for some real experimental data for the comparison of VM6, VM7 and conflate, but all I found (from all kind of forums) were just a guess, not a real data. Indeed, I found some experimental data in KTERA forum (inven), but they just compared conflates with VM7 +12. However, lots of people think that results were for VM7 +15 vs conflates. So I have tested for the comparison of VM6, VM7 and conflate gears with my friends for over a month.
I know people hate to take a look at the raw data on my spread sheet, so I am writing just the results from my experiment.
# Expermental conditions
- all same glyphs
- pvp-based options on gears
- all same accessaries, options, and etchings
- no red/blue crystals (weap, chest)
- kept 120 stamina with panaceaic bolster
- no other buffs but vanguard vigor (accquired from 7-day log in, 6 power)
- skills used for the test: fireblast, roundhouse kick, and zenobia's vortex - all skills showed same diffeneces correspond to gears
# Results
# Discussion
For now(Sept 15th, 2016), conflate gears are way worse than VM6 or VM7 for pvp than most people's guess. Also, VM6 armors are surprisingly good for pvp compared to VM7 armors. Full VM6(+15) armors took only 1.43% more frontal and 1.39% more behind damage than full VM7(+15).
We all know conflates gears will get buffed when new dungeons come out. Hoever, it will be still questionable that the buffed conflates will overcome 20% differences in pvp.
0
Comments
So to reiterate, currently starfall chest and boots > imperator chest and boots. You need the 5 set bonus for the extra endurance to have the imperator set provide a small amount of defense over vm6+conflate gloves. However, losing the damage from conflate gloves or the healing bonus from starfall gloves simply isn't worth the mediocre defense increase. (As you said, 1.43% and 1.39%.) Therefore anyone that is currently using full Vm7 is basically doing themselves a disservice by paying more for inferior gear.
As for the vm8 patch, you should be comparing vm8 and conflate, not vm7. The math here is actually extremely simple. Both +15 vm8 chest and gloves have lower defense modifiers compared to +12 conflate chest and gloves. In addition to having higher defense modifiers, conflate gloves have a extra 3% damage over imperator (6% pvp damage > 3% Vm glove line).
Gloves -
Conflate: Higher defense mod, Increase pvp damage by 6%
Vm8/8.5: Lower defense mod, Increase damage by 3% (vm glove line), has 1 more power on the top + 2 from set bonus
For the chest, you have both a higher defense modifier and the "decrease pvp damage by 12%".
Chest -
Conflate: Higher defense mod, Reduce damage by 12%, 3 rerollable lines
Vm8/8.5: Lower defense mod, Reduce damage by 6%, 4 rerollable lines, has 1 more power on top + 2 from set bonus
You're basically only losing the 4th line, which is completely negated by the extra 6% damage reduction that you gain. So, really, there is literally no downside to using conflate, the 4th line actually doesn't matter.
You are losing 2 power from both top lines added together, and 2 power from the conflate's set bonus being +8 power (Conflate 2 set bonus) instead of +10 power (vm8 2 set bonus). However, the extra 6% damage reduction line provided by the chest and the 3% damage increase from the gloves will be more than enough to swing this in favor of conflate chest and gloves.
To sum up:
Conflate Chest + Gloves: Additional Reduce damage by 6%, higher defense modifier (even higher than 8.5), and 3% more damage on gloves
Vm8/8.5 Chest + Gloves: 4 Power (1 from each top line and 2 from conflate 2 set bonus), 8 endurance (5 set bonus)
It should be clear that using a vm8/8.5 weapon, belt, and boots alongside conflate chest and gloves are to be best in slot. So really, no, it's not questionable that conflate will overcome a 20% difference. It's actually vm8 that struggles to keep up. This will apply to both healers and dps. Starfall gloves for healers are no longer a viable option as the defense modifier is simply too low to justify the healing bonus on it compared to the conflate.
Conflate boots suck after the 30 man raid is introduced as the defense mod is nerfed and the extra pvp defense doesn't make up for the lack of crit resist and the huge gap in defense modifier. Prior to the nerf conflate boots have higher defense than vm8, but lack crit resist. It makes a good budget option for those that don't want to +15 boots.
I have full SF+15 and Full +15 Imperator set on brawler and priest. and Full +15 Imperator/conflate gloves sorc and brawler helped me the test. I don't know where that 1-2% dmg diference (at the top of you comment) came from, but the data that were shown in the original post were ACTUAL EXPERMIMENTAL DATA. I can test with you if you want.
4 pieces of +15 VM7 + Conflate gloves showed 3.57% frontal/2.97% behind dmg than full +15 VM7. And they take about 7% more dmg than Full VM7 in pvp. (not 1-2% more dmg taken as you mentioned)
For this experiment, I carefully set up everything as the exp' condition said. Of course there must some difference in stats (power and endurance) due to the options on each gears but, at least, all experiments have been taken place in ideal condition for other than gears. So the differences in stats coming from gears do not matter.
Another thing that I want to mention is,
The basic equation for dmg dealt/taken in tera follow involution equation, not linear equation, which means 3% more base attack/defense modifier don't mean 3% more dmg dealt/taken.
- Add -
Another thing that I found was a set of VM7 weap, gloves, belt + VM6 chest, shoes takes the least dmg (0.91% less dmg than full VM7). But those were not that big, so I did not include it on data. The major thing that I want to mention was...conflate gears are not as good as VM6 or VM7 +15.
Of course I agree with that Conflate gloves has 3% more dmg in pvp. It was shown on the data as well. However, some people beileve that, even for now, Full conflate armors are like SF+15...need a correction
I was talking with @Toi , and made some agreement with him. Conflate chest and gloves will be a good choice. Chest will get buffed and be like VM8 chest, Gloves will do more dmg (like for now, 3% more dps), but take a bit more dmg (so it depends on persos's choice).
However, conflate shoes is the worst choice and will also be the worst with next patch (means when conflate gets buffed). Weapon and shoes will not overcome those 20% differences showing now.
For now,
VM7 weapon, belt, gloves + SF chest, shoes = best defense (1% better than full VM7 +15)
VM7 weapon, belt, + SF chest, shoes + conflate gloves = best offense, but ~5% more dmg taken than full VM7
Again, I say conflate chest and gloves can be a good choice for now and for future, but weapon and shoes...just ignore them.
Vm7 > Vm6 > CF
After buffs it's
Vm7> CF > Vm6
Conflate receives a massive base stat buff which puts it in a competitive position.
My advice to Lancers and brawlers though. If you do use conflate invest in the Vision maker weapon and belt. They will still give a better pay off.
It depends.. Conflate chest and gloves will be better than SF+15 (or similar), but weapon and shoes will not due to the options. For example, Conf brawler weapon now has 13,013 base attack modifier, and will have 14,006 base attack modifier (now in ktera). It will be 7.1% difference, and the actual difference in dps will be less than that (cuz they follow involution equation). The weapon cannot overcome the current 14.13% difference.
So Conflate full set will be kind of bad choice. In combination of confalte + VM8 will be better.
This is wrong as Conflate chest and gloves will be best in slot in all scenarios post patch/buffs.
For chest and gloves:
CF> Vm8.5/8 > 7
I really don't know why it's so hard to understand. Conflate chest and gloves will be best in slot in all scenarios, even for healers.
But we'll see
All the misunderstanding is because people just compare full set of VM6, 7 and full conflates. But what I and @Toi said is combination of VM6, 7 and conflates.
Here's a comparison that should be extremely clear for you.
At +15, vm8 cloth chest has 7591 defense modifier.
At +12, conflate cloth chest has 7865 defense modifier. (Notice the higher defense modifier?)
Vm8 has 6% damage reduction on top.
Conflate has 12% damage reduction on top.
This extra 6% basically negates the "reduce KD damage" you would roll on vm8's fourth line.
Conflate chest will be around 7% better than vm8 when you are not KDed, and about .5-1% better when you are, assuming you roll HP 8%, 6% flat and frontal 6.9%.
Vm8 gloves have 5692 defense modifier at +15.
Conflate gloves have 5899 at +12.
Vm8 gloves has the same exact rolls as conflate except it has 3% damage instead.
Conflate has 6% pvp damage.
6% > 3%
So higher defense modifier for both conflate pieces and both conflate pieces have higher pvp defense damage and reduction modifiers.
The slightly smaller set bonus on conflate and the 5 set bonus you lose from using conflate still leaves conflate on top.
I really don't know how to make it any clearer at this point, this is simple 1+1 = 2.
I found something weird result between conflate gloves and VM7 gloves.
# defense result
Full Vm7 vs VM7 (4 pieces) + conflate gloves
both gloves have almost identical defense modifer, and no pvp defense option on them. Also, the tester's gloves have crit/power/attack speed options on both gloves so there is no difference in endurace. The only difference in endurance is +7 coming from 5th set bunus(full VM7). So basically conflate gloves + VM7 (4 pieces) loses 7 endurance from set bonus, but still have identical defense modifier.
However, the result showed that VM7+conflate gloves took 7.4% more dmg (from priest), and 8.9% more dmg (from brawler) than Full VM7.
Indeed, The tester added 7 endurance in order to compensate the missed 7 endurance from set bonus as followed;
Full VM7 vs VM7(4 pieces)+conflate gloves+7 endurance
Suprisingly, VM7+conflate gloves+7 endurance still takes 4.4% more dmg (from priest) and 5.9% more dmg (from brawler) than Full VM7.
I completely got confused by this weird result. because they are supposed to show almost identical defense ability, but Full VM7 was ~4% better than VM7+conflate+7 endurance in pvp defense (of course conflate gloves are better for attack)
This result reminded me a rumor in KTERA. Someone tested and concluded that there is a hidden option with a set of VM series. I personally did not beileve this, but the current result made me to take it seriously.
My only concern at this point is the weapon since CF was lacking a dmg roll compared to Vm8. But we'll see regardless.
It's preference for me. I'd rather wait until it's here than jump into things.
Thanks anyway.
Conflate weapon will get buffed by 7.1% more base attack modifier. And the actual dps will be less than that because the actual damage follows involution equation, not linear one. So there will be no way for the buffed conflate weapon itself to overcome 14.13% of current difference between VM7 and conflate weapon.
Indeed, VM7s will get buffed as well when conflates get buffed.