[TERA PC & Console] En Masse is closing, but TERA lives on! We will continue to support TERA PC (NA) and TERA Console until service is transferred. Stay tuned for more information.
[TERA Console] The Grotto of Lost Souls update (v85) is now live! Read the patch notes here: https://bit.ly/TERACon_v85
[TERA PC] The 64-bit update (v97) is now live. Check out all the changes delivered on August 11 here: https://bit.ly/tera64_patchnotes
[TERA PC & CONSOLE] Summerfest Part 2: The Beach Bash is on from August 11 until September 1! Participate in event activities to earn tokens redeemable for costumes, consumables, mounts, and more! Details: https://bit.ly/tera_sf20
Comments
Right now, the dragon passive buff is not P2W, simply because its not required for you to have it.
Sure, it gives you big numbers, but you already clearing the endgame content without the dragon buff.
So the dragon become merely an extra, an accessory.
Even if you use the excuse of min-max, that is still your choice, buddy.
Nothing wrong with that. But don't mix between a choice, and what is required.
Its the moment when you have to pay for what is required in-game, now that is the moment when we are riding the P2W train.
When the game company sells item/stuff/enhancement in any form to you through micro transactions.
That being said, is TERA already P2W from the beginning...? It is however, the very definition of P2W is complex especially here where player can get those item/stuff/enhancement via in-game method without using any transaction.
But recent patch sure worrying me.
Please forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm just a random TERA citizen worrying TERA's future.
What is a win?:a successful result in a contest, conflict, bet, or other endeavor; a victory
What is (an) endeavor?: try hard to do or achieve something or an attempt to achieve a goal
What is a victory?: an act of defeating an enemy or opponent in a battle, game, or other competition ; the overcoming of an enemy or antagonist ; achievement of mastery or success in a struggle or endeavor against odds or difficulties
For references, you can either google the definitions or use a dictionary.
To continue on with the adventure of literalness, every aspect of life is nothing but competition, humans by nature are competitive. It's basic psychology that humans will push themselves to be better than others even with no formal contest presented before them, all a "ladder" system would do is promote the already present competition and show what is going on to everyone, rather than having to watch Youtube videos, or look up the results other people post. After all, people have always gone with speed runs, or high damage runs in many games, even games that are old, they aren't rewarded in any way beyond recognition. Why else did people start using the forbidden tool and showing off their results, which was happening even during crusades?
Once again, you tolerate the advantage given which does not impact the reality of the situation. You don't care, and it's best to leave it at that.
Yes they do. Wealth has nothing at all do to with min-maxing.
Is this why IMing SS HM is guaranteed to fail? Because EVERYONE is, oh, so competitive and always striving to outdo others? People are not competitive in every aspect of their lives, only in the aspects they care about.
When I stopped playing Aika, it was because enchanting(the same enchanting that you get for free in Tera) cost $15 a pop at much lower success rates(I can probably find you the video of 100 tries and the guy didn't even get +11). Aika was a predominantly PvP game and there was this guy who, together with his credit card, could slaughter a full 24man raid. And not 24 casuals, but top f2p players. He had a cash shop advantage.
About 3 years ago GW2 introduced the eternal gathering tools in the cash shop. You could buy the free ones form a merchant in stacks of 100 and you needed to spend one every time you gathered. The eternal ones had a shiny animation and didn't need a refill. They gave a cash shop advantage.
Most people would say that Aika was p2w but GW2 wasn't. You, however, would say that both are p2w because both offer a cash shop advantage. So, I'll ask you again: What meaning does p2w have when the GWw2 eternal gathering tool is p2w?
Mhum, sure, +15 3% masterwork perfectly rolled imperator, lvl 3 etchings, quatrefoil brooch, signature panties, perfectly rolled jewellery(possibly more than 1 set), full dyads with perfect secondary effect, foods, potions and other consumables...that's all just pocket change. But a dragon is what breaks the bank. Cool story, bro.
Being competitive has nothing to do with succeeding. Being competitive is just trying to be better than others, and of course there has to be people that fail as not everyone can be better. In all competitive environments you have the middle ground being a big chunk, the average, with a group below that, an above average group and then an even smaller, extreme minority group above that. Not everyone is some successful person in any given field. With the nature of being human we all have our own strengths. Either way, people of either group still typically do try to get better, whether they succeed or not has no bearing on competitiveness.
I already made it quite clear as to what advantages I was talking about. Anything exclusive to the cash shop, or the free equivalent taking up too much time or being sub par. Whether a game is pay to win, or not, does not really impact me much personally. I have played many full blown pay to win games as a free user and even profited off of them as RMT was allowed. Regardless, my experience or tolerance of such mechanics does not invalidate the fact many people do not want to tolerate it.
I do not recall saying any of that was "pocket change", but merely stated you do not have to be sitting on a fountain of gold before a patch hits to min-max. Inner armors are a long term investment, and brooches were for a long time as well. That only leaves getting your gear to +15 3% etched and accessories rolled well each patch, which you do not need wealth for most of this. You can maximize your character over time if you are not wealthy, you do not have to do this in the first week or two of a patch to be a min-maxer. Doing so early simply puts you in an advantage over those who take longer to reach the same position as you'll find yourself in a situation that is easier to get runs if you don't already have a static.
I suppose you're mixing up people who play many hours and min-maxers up. Generally people who play several hours a day will surely have all the wealth and be min-maxers, but even those with less time, and as such less wealth, can still be min-maxers but simply take more time. All it means is the people with less time/wealth have to actually manage what they have and what they do with their time; which some of them actually do that quite well.
You mean to tell me that there are people who are competitive and really try to get better yet somehow are too stupid to equip crystals? They really care and really want to get better but their mental capacity doesn't allow them to right click an item? Seriously?! And the 30 year old living on his mom's couch, watching TV all day, he's really competitive also and trying to get a job, just can't seem to find it under the pillow, right? C'mon...... Most people are not competitive and do not strive to be the best or even just a little bit better. They wish they could be better, but don't want to put the effort it requires so they stay just where they are and convince themselves(or maybe truly believe) it's for the best.
OK, let's say that I'll accept your "p2w means pay4advantage" proposal. What is the advantage you get out of the dragon and when/where does it matter? Beyond some sort of personal e-peen gratification. Doesn't work in PvP, there are no score boards any more, you can clear any and all content without it. So...
http://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/6773/eme-please-listen-to-player-concerns-and-remove-the-crit-power-passives-from-the-new-dragon-mounts/p9 (post by Ketoth).
Don' just believe in anything until you can double-check it yourself.
Because you can get all that garbage in-game. The dragons HAVE to come from the store at this moment. Which means at this very moment it's P2W. You can say "oh but there will be dragons with tokens and it'll be great"... ok well where are those? It's all-too-convenient that they aren't released yet but the paid ones are. And everyone is buying into it and throwing money at it. They're going to do this again and get away with it again.
Also everyone talking on this topic is casuals so I think my statement of min maxing should not have been said, but I was just trying to express my point.
CASUAL laid back players> complains for expensive dragons.
I can see the irony here, you the one that always show off how rich you are, how good you are... looking down other players now looks like you have become the "voice of the opressed". Most(not all ofcourse) min-maxers have enough gold to get BiS full rolled without any kind of problem, now how comes that most of them are actually poor and a group of casuals, this is a plot twist.
i don't eat your arguments here ramii. If they are poor then they should try hard to get gold like they do min-maxing, otherwise to me they are casuals by definition and you said casual don't understand about min-maxing... the paradox. Wrong example Also. You make it look like you have to buy dragons every new gear patch, which is totally wrong. You proceed to complain for what? 500k but you willingly spend 3M full gear a char EVERY patch lol. I don't get your point really.
And btw thank you for generalizing.
To stay on topic, the real problem with dragons is the actual power creep path is taking the game right now, it is not even about if they are p2w or not, because you guys are just impatient, most of you are afraid of getting your ego and e-peen stomped by players with enough money to get dragons right now. We all know dragons will be released in game but why are you so desperate to win in a dead content where even crusades and DS3 were taken down? Where is the advantage in a patch that everything is completely done? don't tell me rally quest pls lol.
Nothing of what most people complain about the dragons matter, what really matters is that we are getting more power creep items and if they actually keep making money from them, then devs are gonna keep throwing them because is profitable. We all know it is, just see the EMP price right now. BHS love to take the easy and cheap path like always have done in everything they create.
So ramii at the end we actually agree with something, this is not an actual good path for the game, not because "is too expensive", it is only expensive for casuals(even though right now is not a necessary investment for them since it will be farmable) but it is bad because guides the game directly to an unhealthy path, if they keep adding this kind of items with stats they are gonna break the balance between what's necessary to clear a dungeon and how to balance its difficulty based on the first statement. For now i think is a foresee of how this game could be ruined for good if they keep going in this direction.
That's not even in the general vicinity of what I was talking about. The conversation you are jumping into is about min-maxing and whether it's a realistic goal for poor players. Nothing what-so-ever to do with real money.
But while we are on the topic of "where are those", I'm still waiting for the winning and advantages the dragons provide.
PS: On a side note, maybe we shouldn't call it pay2win any more. We should call it pay2frog instead, has a nice ring to it.
I'm on my phone and it auto corrects my "yu" most times.
Edit: I said this isn't a big concern for people who don't min max, which is a better portion of the community. This is harder on people who do though. I never said they don't matter.
When people do good and post their DPs, it's because they enjoyed it and wanted to share something they're achieved.
Let's see what always happen in TERA: new costumes and mounts.
Now let's see what comes sazonally: new dungeons, new battleground and new classes.
Now let's see what most of the players in TERA do: buy costumes and mounts, do new dungeons and new battlegrounds(not so much but well) and like do play with the new OP class. I mean, appear to me BHS and players are in tune.
I really can't see all the mistakes you are seeing.