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Comments
One example: 2 lancers in +15 imp with very good ping, each in its own party and assuming it is a great party composition with double heals. After they fight same boss (let's say first boss sshm), Lancer A does around 500k/s while lancer B does around 1m+ assuming both parties are skilled, things went perfect and same composition. You can say both tanks do their job but when you see a big difference in the dps output of both lancers, that's one area where people can tell who is the more skilled lancer. My point is that a lot goes in to learn how to really do good dps as lancer to be able to reach anywhere from ~800k/s-1.2m in non slaying runs and yes most importantly it's also party dependent as someone mentioned.
In double heals party along with a good composition, lancers should always reach around that amount assuming things go really good. Not every lancer reaches that and only the people who devote the class as their own, refining their skills/glyphs, trying different things and stuff like that can only keep improving like I do myself. If lancers can't even reach 500k/s in a double heals, then honestly they have work to do to improve their play. There is no guide out there for lancers on how to reach high dps; it's all about how the person figures it out as they learn the class. For people who never played lancer and main a brawler at high level, I'd like to see them to try lancer and see if they can achieve a high level of play in a short amount of time.
Don't overstate what your character actually does its near brain dead and partly why many don't like Lancer cuz boring no variety. These are your Lancer rotations and their is no optimal or what to do if ands or buts...its what everyone uses if they have low ping:
Shield barrage-> spring attack -> wallop
Shield Barrage ->spring attack -> Shield bash -> Onslaught if Wallop on Cool down
Block counter whenever you can and then do one of the above combos
Debilitate you can sneak in 3 stacks after you block crap
Whenever you pop AR, just do Shield Barrage->Spring-> filler ->Shield Barrage Spring ->repeat
Enrage and Guardian shout usually at start and then whenever off cool down.
Other bosses u save your boofs for cheap burn phases.
Poof your 800k-1m dps
Don't pretend Lancer complicated please. What makes a lancer do DPS in 800k-1m territory are the tryhard boofs and party comps aka double heals or War/Brawler.
Well I NEVER spoke about myself in that post. Don't bring that attitude towards me buddy. I know what I'm capable of on my lancer from everyday runs that I do. There are people on my server who know me that can back me up.
Some of you guys don't really understand the lancer class. When you guys tanked back in the days before the brawler patch, can you say it was easy back then? How many lancers quit because they didn't know how to be good back then? Okay now it's easy yes, if thats the way you look at it because all the changes and buffs. Some people think its enough to just poke, block and use some skills and keep aggro making it look easy. That's not how it works if you want to be a good lancer. I really won't get into the details because some people don't see eye to eye of what I'm trying to point out.
I never said lancer is a complicated class but it's one of those classes if you want to be good, you gotta learn a lot. You don't need try hard boofs for 800k-1m. Even without a warrior or archer, I can easily reach 800-900k/s sometimes without bravery and noctenium in some fights like 1st boss sshm or dfhm vera, dfhm verno (if mystic is in range for me and team) when I don't even try as hard so your argument is invalid. You can't just assume something because you don't know the full reality of it.
You constantly preach how much skill is required thus increase in difficulty. I'm just setting the record straight that it is not a high skill cap ceiling class and the way you phrase things overstates the difficulty of this buggy, noob, low ping, dependent class. That is simply disingenuous and 100% wrong. Lancer isn't a Sorc or Archer or Warrior where you need to learn specific rotations to maximize or do good DPS. I mentioned DPS rotations because then what ware you talking about when you mention,"in order to do really good DPS". For Lancers there is no secret everyone knows the Optimal DPS rotations to maximize DPS. A lot doesn't go into pressing the same 4 skills the entire fight.
As discussed in other threads the reason you see bad Lancers is largely to do with ping and inability to gear properly or glyph builds aka its EMEs fault for crap gear progression and [filtered] servers. The other reason is due to the Elitist community and the unwillingness to wipe HM dungeons with noob Lancers.
With logic like this, your one of those who would laughably say Call Of Duty is a highly skilled game since in your non LAN matches you get iunno 100+ kill streak per game Reality, you lag so hard it takes 1000 bullets to kill you. You don't die a lot but others do so translation Skill.
Also you repeat that oxymoron/confusion too many times:
Not complicated vs lot to learn
Not complicated vs not easy
Not complicated vs specific dps rotations
Not complicated vs "advance stages"
Something is complicated if you imply Lancer not easy, a lot to learn, needs specific rotations, high skill, etc.
Easy in theory = Easy in practice now? Lancer does have hard things to do. Spending as little time blocking and as much time DPSing is important. There's a huge difference between the average Lancer and a great Lancer just as much as there is a difference between an average Brawler and a great Brawler. Lancer rotations are simple, yes. You can say the same thing about Warriors. Use Blade Draw chains off cooldown and Scythe at 10 Edge. You can easily simplify a class to a sentence or two.
Just like how only 1 or 2 Ninjas have gotten close to or passed 3m/s on Queen, even if they only have a few main skills.
I only gave one example and it was about dps. There are other examples I can give as well that doesn't do with dps'ing as lancer but I didn't want to get in detail about it. People can still be average and be a good lancer. I'm not saying that it makes lancer hard if you want good skill. Anyone can be great in any class, not just lancer; good or average for any class. You my friend don't understand correctly. I wasn't comparing lancer to archer/sorcer or any dps class. What I meant was if a lancer can do some really good damage, it's always a plus for the party.
And when you say this,"For Lancers there is no secret everyone knows the Optimal DPS rotations to maximize DPS. A lot doesn't go into pressing the same 4 skills the entire fight."
This disgusts me. Everyone? Not everyone knows the optimal dps rotations to maximize dps on lancer. So you're saying a new person can be so good in a few days? Please think about what you're saying. I've played lancer for 2 years now and I'm speaking from my experience. Saying that lancer is a noob class is kind of wrong. Let's hear from other lancers really; this is ridiculous and embarrassing from what I'm reading.
Lancers being bad because of bad ping is a whole different story. This is why when I mentioned in my earlier post when I mentioned my example, I was assuming if having good ping. With bad ping of course it's very difficult to play lancer and most classes. Someone like me would never judge a person if they're having difficult with ping because that of course is everyone's worse nightmare to deal with in game.
And I don't play call of duty; haven't played that game in 6 years. Dont bring up false statements. And in no way I'm no elitist if that's what you think I am.
I totally agree about lancer taking more skill than brawler. What's wrong is some people tend to disagree about this.
Thanks, at least some people agree. Lancer rotations are very simple but the timing and understanding of a lot goes into huge detail. I'm not really good at explaining but apparently there are some people who like to be annoying and disagree that it doesn't take skill to play lancer.
No but seriously zerk tank is pretty ded. Same with warr tank. Just because there are a few examples of someone pulling it off correctly/luckily doesn't mean that there's no issue with the class at all. If you go by that logic then no class needs to be changed, ever.
It is like someone said, if we are represented by someone that is exceptional with his/her class then no class would need balance, and we all know that those kind of players are a minority in Tera. The only thing I can complain about Zerk is the lack of infuriate, other than that not so much, since they can hold aggro easily and can't say a lot about them since I don't have one (maybe one of these days), and I have seen a very few of them that can actually tank, about warrior tank the class suffer from a few problems, sharing edge, if you have another warrior in party GG, Traverse Cut doesn't stack with Archer debuff another GG, warrior front crits are too inconsistent or maybe I'm just [filtered] unlucky who knows, but even with 300+ factor my scythe barely reaches 80% crits, I found out that my lancer crits way more than warrior and with less factor, and just as lancers warriors are very ping dependant and since this is not KTera that is a very huge problem right there, btw can you provide the actual data of that warrior tank party just like you did with the zerk ones.
And to finish this, I agree with what you said in that last line.
You are dead wrong! Zerk provides ZERO utility to the team because they lack Infuriate and an endurance debuff. Brawlers have both! Please don't spout nonsense when you clearly don't understand the game.
Warrior tank is suffering and saying that they don't need any changes to catch up to brawler/lancer - not to be rude - is a bit naive. Don't say "oh I tried it and it was fine" yea it's fine for me too when the party doesn't have good dps. And when I say good dps I don't mean +15 imp, I mean people who actually know what they're doing regardless of gear. You have to have pretty skilled at warr/zerk tank to not suck against mediocre dps, you pretty much have to use noct to tank at all - tell me how good you are at warr tank without noct, it makes a massive difference because noct gives a large aggro bonus to aggro skills. Meanwhile if you're a lancer/brawler you don't really need to know what you're doing and you can tank fairly good dpsers without noct. I'd also like to add that if you're in a run that has 0 deaths it's easier to keep aggro since aggro doesn't reset.
Like I said in another post, if they moved warrior's assault stance crit into passive skill crit so that it could apply to d stance. Then it might be enough to solve it by helping dps. Probably not quite enough, but enough to make it at least consistent. They've already given like 80% and 100% buffs to ToB and shout over 2 or 3 patches which shows just how far behind warrior was in aggro generation. It's behind in aggro generation because it's also behind in damage; damage is the real issue.
You also admit to not having much experience in warr tank... Yet you are speaking for us all. I could be wrong but how you're talking also sounds like you weren't the zerk tank in that run. Yet you are speaking for zerk tanks as well...
We already know that warr/zerk when played by someone skilled will be able to do the role just fine, the problem is it's just not really worth it when there are other options that are much easier and provide better results. This is true with any class unfortunately, but it's very noticeable with tanks.
Meanwhile, OP can roll a brawler or lancer and hold aggro on everything with Dreadnaught.
And yes, if you're doing half the DPS of other tanks, you are slowing your party down. There's a good reason no one wants or plays warrior tanks right now, even people who miss tanking on them.