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They seem to have cut out a lot of beginner content...
Hi all. 
Last time I played this game was back in January (according to my account) but mainly I remember about when Gunner came out. Island of Dawn was still around, and questing was still required around much of the surrounding areas of Lumbertown.
I came back yesterday and made a new Berserker (felt like hacking stuff up) and wow... the loss of beginning content is really jarring. Personally I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination, especially in MMOs... so it was quite a disappointment to see how much they've gotten rid of. It seems that Bastion of Lok isn't even required anymore.
I'm just curious what else they've cut out and is it basically just a power level game at this point? Do they just want you at 65 to spend all your time and money getting all the best gear now? Because if so... there's really not much here for me anymore which is a shame. The thing that shone through most for this game for me was the combat system. And while it's great even in end-game dungeons (from what I've seen of them which admittedly isn't much), I miss the learning experience along the way.
Please tell me the older dungeons are still required to some extent? Along with the other gradual questing and whatnot. What's the state of the game really at this point? Is it worth coming back full swing? Or is it only about end-game content at this point?
Keep in mind, the farthest I've ever gotten was full Ambit gear (minus weapon which I still need) on my Reaper. Before that, was way back in 2012 and even then I never reached 60 (mained a Mystic). I eventually did level my mystic and several other characters to 65, but I've barely touched end-game content (mostly because I had a hard time finding anyone willing to teach lol).
Last time I played this game was back in January (according to my account) but mainly I remember about when Gunner came out. Island of Dawn was still around, and questing was still required around much of the surrounding areas of Lumbertown.I came back yesterday and made a new Berserker (felt like hacking stuff up) and wow... the loss of beginning content is really jarring. Personally I've always enjoyed the journey more than the destination, especially in MMOs... so it was quite a disappointment to see how much they've gotten rid of. It seems that Bastion of Lok isn't even required anymore.
I'm just curious what else they've cut out and is it basically just a power level game at this point? Do they just want you at 65 to spend all your time and money getting all the best gear now? Because if so... there's really not much here for me anymore which is a shame. The thing that shone through most for this game for me was the combat system. And while it's great even in end-game dungeons (from what I've seen of them which admittedly isn't much), I miss the learning experience along the way.
Please tell me the older dungeons are still required to some extent? Along with the other gradual questing and whatnot. What's the state of the game really at this point? Is it worth coming back full swing? Or is it only about end-game content at this point?
Keep in mind, the farthest I've ever gotten was full Ambit gear (minus weapon which I still need) on my Reaper. Before that, was way back in 2012 and even then I never reached 60 (mained a Mystic). I eventually did level my mystic and several other characters to 65, but I've barely touched end-game content (mostly because I had a hard time finding anyone willing to teach lol).
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most beginners dont even know about those quests. when you make a new character and you follow that beginner's quest it skips everything
As stated, only the first ~30min to Lumbertown were cut out. The cut starts at Velika office and spans the first quest route to the unicorn and blood mages. You are being set in where you travel to Cresentia. Given the XP gained, I guess it's okay somehow. They didn't change the rest of the main quest.
What does leveling time have to do with not being able to fight bosses...? None of the pre 60 dungeons even have any actual mechanics or even bosses, as they're literally just BAMs with more hp. A lot of people also leveled through the story quest before dungeons became the best way, which involve killing no bosses. There's nothing you learn while you level other than what abilities do, considering how a class plays at low level isn't the same at 65... and I'm not even talking about the fact you don't have all your abilities, but how you move so slow due to lower attack speed. So timing for animation canceling, movement, etc are all completely different.
During leveling, you get to use your skills. Now I could fall back to the old basic and say that the more you use your skill, the more you are experienced in using it. However, as an retired progress player, this doesn't cover it all. Timing, movement, skill and knowledge would more sum it up. You get to learn how much attacks fit into the gap between two BAM attacks. You get to learn where to stand upon a BAM attacking. You get to learn to iframe through an attack. You get to learn special moves (e.g. the priest's forward escape). You get to learn combos (e.g. overchannel+celery+power buff before fireblasting). This list is quite long. So don't tell me you can suddenly handle all this by playing Kuma Royale once a day and hitting lvl 65.
Of course if you only consider pressing random attacks, having random crystals and random glyphs as endgame skill, you surely "don't learn anything while leveling".
There was a point where open world bams can actually kill you easily. That was the difficulty I liked.
Yes... Those are the times that I really miss. Playing Mystic with my boyfriend on his Slayer alt duo-ing BAMs was damn difficult leveling up back in 2012. Nowadays I can solo them too easily even as a squishy class. Why do games always go the way of being too easy? The difficulty found particularly in Asian MMOs is one of the things I liked the best. It's a shame when they feel like they have to dumb it down.
Because then you get to end-game where everything suddenly jumps several levels in difficulty and you weren't prepared for it properly. Which is exactly how I felt when I came back to the game last time lol. I wasn't ready at all for the jump, it was a pretty steep learning curve. Nothing wrong with that of course, it just means people have to be ready to be patient, and sadly a lot of experienced players seem to be anything but.
The reason because too many people like to take the easy route to things, and because as an incentive to draw people in too. That is being why they go the easy route. I do miss a lot of the old quest content and how hard it was to do BAMs that were a few levels higher than my characters were at that time. I use to grind BAMs with a friend too but now a days, its like BAM is orange or red lettered, ooh easy mode with the avatar weapons. BAM is white lettered, ooh BAM dead in a minute or so, even on mystic
Yeah.... Exactly. I made a Ninja yesterday to try out the class, and once you get the avatar weapon everything dies in one hit practically. Where's the challenge in that? Does make me curious if they've also dumbed down end-game stuff, though I wouldn't really know. Kinda makes me wonder what the point of it all is. Get all the best gear then waste time standing around Velika I guess? xD I don't know.
But I suppose that question can be asked about any MMORPG.
However, some dungeons like Timescape and Dreadspire Uppers, was challenge and still is for the Timescape. They removed Dreadspire yet again
I still think the hardest dungeons and the thrill of doing them, were old dungeons that no longer exist.
Oh and if you run with an awakened imperator or even currently starfall person at +15, its like even easier to clear the dungeons
I've done some of the Argon dungeon (can't remember the name of it) these days but I know it's just a husk of what it used to be. Such a shame, really.
BAMs don't have mechanics, just normal attacks... It also doesn't teach you anything regarding dungeons either other than for solo instances, which are mostly targeted at beginners. Even when leveling was "hard" people still complained on forums about how bad people were, so obviously it being "harder" or "easier" had no impact. Anything you listed could easily be learned in any of the entry level instances in an actual party setup. What does soloing "hard" BAMs teach a Lancer? Being a tank is a matter of positioning more than smacking a 0 mechanic BAM around. More often than not, an issue with a Brawler/Lancer is more than their use of abilities, but inability to reposition, move a boss around, turn around, make room for the dps, etc which soloing "hard" BAMs or any of the low level instances DO NOT help you learn. It is all learned from experience at level 65. The same goes for healing, what good does knowing how to kill a BAM do? Anytime you do any actual damage at level 65 as a healer it is on mobs that function entirely different, and it doesn't teach you how to fill your supportive role. As a dps, your rotation, and even glyph setup, isn't going to be the same as a level 65 dungeon where you're with 4+ other people.
Not only that, but I even said the attack speed and even some cool downs are too different pre 65 and at 65 to the point the class feels completely different. Soloing "hard" BAMs at 30 means nothing when the game is entirely different at 65. There's also too different of a dynamic between soloing a 0 mechanic BAM and being in a group with multiple people each filling a role that needs to work together to clear efficiently.
Please explain how soling BAMs, whether "hard" or not will help someone understand clearing SSHM?
You mean when people were new to the game, and this type of game? I didn't find the BAMs difficult to solo on my 3rd character. As a game ages people become more experienced, there's no point in making everything hit harder with a million hp at early levels, because even if they brought back that "difficulty" it would not be as difficult as it was the first time due to you being far more experienced than you were back then. All it would do is make the game extremely boring to level because fighting the same single BAM for several minutes isn't "difficult" or is it "fun" when you know what they already do.
A good MMO picks up every kind of player and leads him to some tier of endgame fitting for him. I'm talking about people who've never touched an MMO before and are learning their way into mastery. Because we all were beginner once. And this is also the very defintion of a progress player. You don't get to a certain skill level and rest. You continously progress.
I'm not going to hit you with a text of wall, but if you think that a healer or tank must not know any boss mechanics, there's no common ground for us to discuss this.