Please if you are a tank, Wear a [filtered] Threatening

JasonLucas · November 2016

Threatening crystals adds X% base aggro for your skills, it helps a lot especially when you need to move the boss, but the dps keep attacking.
If you are a Tank, always care about you role first.

feazeshero · November 2016

streetdog wrote: »

Not at all.

Using rallying cry does almost nothing and it can make your GS go on cd when you need it later on. You wanna use this skill not to get aggro, but to prevent some kd and stagger mechanics if possible, like it was in ds2 and ds3. It does not work in the current dungeons with exception of second boss LKHM, but well dps can just iframe or get araise by priest.

The more defense glyph on threatening shout as lancer sounds certainly nice, but is very useless, unless you wanna facetank like a [filtered]. If we get in the future dungeons with bosses which hit so hard that they penetrate through block, you might wanna use this, for now better don't. The skill. It is insane waste of glyph points as it is now.

GS is a skill every lancer has to use regularly and possibly should be paired with adrenaline rush.

More i read this topic, more i feel people lose aggro just because they use wrong build/glyphs. Lancer retakes aggro by attacking, this is how it was and this is how it will be until they change the aggro system in tera. Lancer aggro shout, pretty much like warrior shout, is dead

I agree with this. I rarely use shout as well and it is a definite loss of points to use for endurance glyph. Lancer already has enough defense. I feel putting points elsewhere in glyphs are more important and hence I never used the endurance glyph on shout. Rally cry is definitely used for stagger/kd stuff but rarely use it for any other purpose.

MorgianaSenpai · November 2016

Essential mana builds are entirely based on +15 equipment and it's frustrating even to look at because of how much everybody neglects the versatility of all of your skills. You must use Onslaught off cooldown because it "Maximizes your DPS," sure it's a DPS meta but that doesn't if you think you can hold aggro with just a +15 weapon. I too have over 3 years of tanking experience. I tank what I like to run, my knowledge on endgame has rather plummeted after BRHM was removed; the only fun dungeon in my opinion.

My point is to say that as a lancer you do not need to focus on DPS unless your beating up a sandbag like Lachelith or DFHM. Other than that I'd say you should be focusing on keep yourself alive and hold aggro in the process. Essential mana guides as I said don't benefit me in any way because of how naive the ones making the guide are.

I would make a guide myself but meh I don't have the patience so I commend them for putting the effort into making it so that others can have something work off of, but that should be it though. It should not be something that should be strictly followed to the crossing of the t's or the dotting of the i's.

As a lancer Main for well over 3 years, I've got to say I'd rather tank in the old method than what we have today. Everyone is blinded by the real purpose of a tank because "lol dps or bust"

Back then when you had to have Aggro generation rolls on your equipment, 4 threatening crystals and sometimes if needed 4 Green threatening.
I used to tank BRHM in Ambit and do just fine. People would BM me for it and say I couldn't tank +15 swagfegs but I have 3 +15 VM people in my last BRHM before the dungeon went bye bye, and I held aggro no problem. I utilized my shouts to keep my aggro. You can still do the same post patch after the aggro formula was changed to fit damage based aggro.

I can tank +15 idiots just fine even the ones that "do good dps" and I'm in slaughter gear because I utilize my shouts.

feazeshero · November 2016

MorgianaSenpai wrote: »

streetdog wrote: »

Not at all.

Using rallying cry does almost nothing and it can make your GS go on cd when you need it later on. You wanna use this skill not to get aggro, but to prevent some kd and stagger mechanics if possible, like it was in ds2 and ds3. It does not work in the current dungeons with exception of second boss LKHM, but well dps can just iframe or get araise by priest.

The more defense glyph on threatening shout as lancer sounds certainly nice, but is very useless, unless you wanna facetank like a [filtered]. If we get in the future dungeons with bosses which hit so hard that they penetrate through block, you might wanna use this, for now better don't. The skill. It is insane waste of glyph points as it is now.

GS is a skill every lancer has to use regularly and possibly should be paired with adrenaline rush.

More i read this topic, more i feel people lose aggro just because they use wrong build/glyphs. Lancer retakes aggro by attacking, this is how it was and this is how it will be until they change the aggro system in tera. Lancer aggro shout, pretty much like warrior shout, is dead

I gotta say, I don't thnk you play Lancer that often if you think all of the shouts are completely useless with the exception of Guardian Shout. You need to shout to keep your aggro. Both of the shouts have aggro multipliers. Threatening offers Endurance with the glyph and no knockback when you are blocking for those edgy boss fights that push you back into the pools of their mess, and Rallying Cry offers Knockdown and Stagger resist. Something big in today's dungeons. Another thing is that you want to use rallying cry when Guardian shout is on Cooldown. since they share a cooldown. Rallying cry won't make Guardian shout's Cooldown time back to 3minutes( if you are not using the decreased cooldown) When you use guardian shout, Rallying cry goes on a 30 second cooldown. If you use Rallying cry before Guardian [filtered] you find your guardian shout on a 30 second cooldown.

I'd recommend using all of your shouts purely to help hold aggro if you are struggling.

I play lancer as my main and have to say that shouts are useless. You don't need shouts to keep aggro. YOu have to keep attacking as lancer to maintain your aggro. Shouts are okay to use like if you need to gather a group of mobs or something. Rally cry : the only instance I can think of using this is if needing at rmhm last boss but it doesn't work since I tried this many times and can confirm from different lancers. Using shout is a waste of time and dps for a lancer. Shout used to work before the aggro change and it's not as effective since brawler release patch.

feazeshero · November 2016

MorgianaSenpai wrote: »

Legerrarwen wrote: »

seriously only one person has mentioned in this whole thread that the most common reason a tank loses aggro even if its just one second, is because someone died and it reset aggro. So the tanking ability of someone has so little to do with most groups and even more so for IMS groups since they are most likely to have at least one person dying every 5 seconds, and no matter how good you are if someone dies after you did majority of your burst skills and waiting on CDs or just get unlucky with crits you will lose aggro if the DPS are doing their job correctly after it resets. So that being said aggro crystals are dam near worthless unless you are in one of these groups where you are facing 1-2 good DPS and another person off in the corner being rev'd every 10 seconds, cause sorry but aggro resetting every 10 seconds means eventually you are gonna miss a crit or be on CD on your major burst skills at least once.

To be fair, I made this thread as a troll and was hoping this wasn't going to be turned into a debate but looks like it did.

Goes more for bosses that love turning around like RMHM last boss if you happen to lose aggro and the boss instantly turns to attack that dps you lose any opportunity to get front crits and also blocking for shield counter for lancers, which is another huge aggro boost for them if they happen to lose it.

The boss turning around is fine, as a Tank you should be rocking savage because of this. Whoever made a guide to make people use pounding needs to get thrown off of a bridge. That savage back crit is more than enough to get aggro and hold it if the boss turns around.

So this thread should really be titled "For the love of god if you are a DPS or healer stop dying you are making the tanks job so much harder" cause at this point its rarely the fault of a just plain horrible tank these days since they made tanking just beyond to easy, sure there are some brawlers that just get owned on DPS parse and lose damage but for lancers its rarely an issue that they suck. Cause brawlers are a "DPS" tank so they need to be much closer in DPS to hold aggro while lancers can be 50-60%+ lower than the highest dps and not lose aggro if people aren't dying constantly.

It is not about DPS and healers dying, It's about how Tanks don't use aggro crystal and lose aggro all the time, like I'm talking about them losing aggro within mere seconds of the fight beginning. Another thing is that Lancer can be top dps if you gear yourself to be that way if you so wish, I've seen brawlers with 300k-400k dps sustain aggro because they were using an aggro crystal.

Serioulsy tho who ever made that ridiculous guide to make a lot of people who strictly follow guides and never explore on their own needs to refurbish that guild because it's bottom of the barrel bad.

:^)

The reason why some tanks lose aggro within mere seconds at the start of a battle is because they are starting the fight wrong. Yes they are doing it wrong. I've seen many videos of lancers going in and using shout first and then enrage. Now in the old meta that would work but in the new meta that is not a good practice. Now there is nothing wrong with that but honestly there is something wrong with it because there is no damage made yet by lancer but at same time you have dps already attacking thus taking aggro away from the lancer. Try using infuriate with no attacks at first and see if you gain aggro while dps is attacking. Most times the aggro will not shift to the tank because there is no damage by the tank in the table yet.

Everytime I start a battle, I always go in and attack first with shield barrage and some momentum for 2 or 3 seconds and when I see window that is available to me, I enrage right away and then use GS + AR. The reason why I do this because I have damage built in and when I enrage, it's guaranteed I don't lose aggro. I don't use shout + enrage at the start because I let people get in position first and some bosses have mechs that need to be evaded first before everyone can get full up time. I been doing this since fihm patch and it never fails me. Parties I run with are smart enough to know when the bosses get enraged.

feazeshero · November 2016

MorgianaSenpai wrote: »

Essential mana builds are entirely based on +15 equipment and it's frustrating even to look at because of how much everybody neglects the versatility of all of your skills. You must use Onslaught off cooldown because it "Maximizes your DPS," sure it's a DPS meta but that doesn't if you think you can hold aggro with just a +15 weapon. I too have over 3 years of tanking experience. I tank what I like to run, my knowledge on endgame has rather plummeted after BRHM was removed; the only fun dungeon in my opinion.

My point is to say that as a lancer you do not need to focus on DPS unless your beating up a sandbag like Lachelith or DFHM. Other than that I'd say you should be focusing on keep yourself alive and hold aggro in the process. Essential mana guides as I said don't benefit me in any way because of how naive the ones making the guide are.

I would make a guide myself but meh I don't have the patience so I commend them for putting the effort into making it so that others can have something work off of, but that should be it though. It should not be something that should be strictly followed to the crossing of the t's or the dotting of the i's.

As a lancer Main for well over 3 years, I've got to say I'd rather tank in the old method than what we have today. Everyone is blinded by the real purpose of a tank because "lol dps or bust"

Back then when you had to have Aggro generation rolls on your equipment, 4 threatening crystals and sometimes if needed 4 Green threatening.
I used to tank BRHM in Ambit and do just fine. People would BM me for it and say I couldn't tank +15 swagfegs but I have 3 +15 VM people in my last BRHM before the dungeon went bye bye, and I held aggro no problem. I utilized my shouts to keep my aggro. You can still do the same post patch after the aggro formula was changed to fit damage based aggro.

I can tank +15 idiots just fine even the ones that "do good dps" and I'm in slaughter gear because I utilize my shouts.

I too have tanked since the brhm/schm days and miss those days of tanking but I also love the new meta. It is true though, as lancer or just as a tank in general, first and foremost is to hold aggro, know positioning and make it easy for the healers as being able to hold your own as much as possible. The essential mana guide is a good guide to see if people looking to improve their rotations or other things.

I mostly learned through experience and also watching different videos but it was all practicing that helped me figured out a lot. Sadly as the new meta is, people expect tanks to be a frontal dps now but at the same time being a tank; literally combining both aspects. At least that what I see. I mean if you're a great tank and do top tier dps in lancer class, you get into top tier parties and people notice you. But lesser tanks who can still hold aggro, won't have such a high chance to get into a top tier party and not get noticed as often.

feazeshero · November 2016

streetdog wrote: »

MorgianaSenpai wrote: »

streetdog wrote: »

Not at all.

Using rallying cry does almost nothing and it can make your GS go on cd when you need it later on. You wanna use this skill not to get aggro, but to prevent some kd and stagger mechanics if possible, like it was in ds2 and ds3. It does not work in the current dungeons with exception of second boss LKHM, but well dps can just iframe or get araise by priest.

The more defense glyph on threatening shout as lancer sounds certainly nice, but is very useless, unless you wanna facetank like a [filtered]. If we get in the future dungeons with bosses which hit so hard that they penetrate through block, you might wanna use this, for now better don't. The skill. It is insane waste of glyph points as it is now.

GS is a skill every lancer has to use regularly and possibly should be paired with adrenaline rush.

More i read this topic, more i feel people lose aggro just because they use wrong build/glyphs. Lancer retakes aggro by attacking, this is how it was and this is how it will be until they change the aggro system in tera. Lancer aggro shout, pretty much like warrior shout, is dead

I gotta say, I don't thnk you play Lancer that often if you think all of the shouts are completely useless with the exception of Guardian Shout. You need to shout to keep your aggro. Both of the shouts have aggro multipliers. Threatening offers Endurance with the glyph and no knockback when you are blocking for those edgy boss fights that push you back into the pools of their mess, and Rallying Cry offers Knockdown and Stagger resist. Something big in today's dungeons. Another thing is that you want to use rallying cry when Guardian shout is on Cooldown. since they share a cooldown. Rallying cry won't make Guardian shout's Cooldown time back to 3minutes( if you are not using the decreased cooldown) When you use guardian shout, Rallying cry goes on a 30 second cooldown. If you use Rallying cry before Guardian [filtered] you find your guardian shout on a 30 second cooldown.

I'd recommend using all of your shouts purely to help hold aggro if you are struggling.

I mostly play brawler, but I play lancer from time to time and I have 3 years of tanking experience in tera. I have +15 imperator set on lancer and I go with my guild in MT (amaterasu) very often, with people who have really nice dps. Even if I dont play lancer that much and it is my 4th alt after brawler, sorc and priest, I have completed anything with it - it has sshm title and already have 20~ runs and so on.

One thing that can be said for sure is that there are not enough glyph points to be wasted on random useless perks like more endurance on shout. You can shout once after you die in hope to regain aggro faster, but that's all. Lancer needs to maximize his dps output because a skilled lancer is able to do over 1m on every fight. Example of lancer glyphs can be found here:
http://www.essentialmana.com/glyph-calc/#la65:a01:c1:e3:f23:j34:k1:n1:o2:s0:t1:v0
Unwavering skill gained from shout is nearly useless, because tanks already don't get pushed back by bams. Or if they are still pushed, like in SSHM, Unwavering doesn't work.

As for the rallying shout, it's only use is to prevent knockdowns and staggers. Using it for anything else lowers your dps and from there your aggro generation.

I think there are a lot of videos.
This one is example of how a lancer should play, and I assure you that you don't do 1,8m/s by using random shouts without any evident purpose. If we remove talents out of equation which are up to 15-20% of the dps, we will get at least 1,2m/s which is the average dps a lancer should be able to pull anywhere in NA.

I agree with all the points mentioned here especially about shout and rally cry. If some lancers depend on shout and rally cry in new meta, then they need to revisit their game plan as lancer. Shout is good for group of mobs or coming back after a res from dying. Using shout at any other times is a waste of uptime for lancer as mentioned.

I too have tanked sshm runs; about 133 times in the last patch and been able to consistently output near 1m or higher dps to match high skill tier dps in party. However it took me until about 60 or 70 clears to get that type of performance because well it takes time to figure out advanced stuff as lancer and also depends on how good parties I got as well. I also have never used or needed to use rally cry and shout ever during my rotations except at the mobs area.

The Ktera video shows how a lancer should play once they're experienced enough. This is the kind of aggressiveness that all tanks should have. If people research lancer dps online, it is true lancers average at least around 1m or higher in dps. I always find myself around 25-35 percent of the team damage. It's always a plus to reach 1m or higher and people notice tanks this way nowadays. Some people don't like the idea of a dps lancer but get the fact straight, that's how it is now. People want to clear hardest dungeon as quick as possible, well you need a skilled tank and not just a tank.

Please if you are a tank, Wear a [filtered] Threatening

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