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Tanks these days are fkin lazy

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Comments

  • edited November 2016
    Hello. I am lancer, play this class 7 days. I use threating crystal, and usually i lose agro only when i die. Got problems also, when i try to move a boss to more safe place :) DPS behave like brainless zombie ( eating numbers instead of brains) and they cant see, boss is already too much near dangerous place. ( like eggs, second boss RMNM or a gate.) its obvious i cant spam all my attacks, and move boss in same time. So vs a OP sorc and Ninja i lose agro very easy, they didnt even notice, and run into eggs, insulting tank in same time. They dont see a boss rush into them, they dont even change position, just dpsing and faping to their DPS meter. When boss already ate 3 eggs in a row, they kick tank, because he didnt moved it. I did many IM RMNM run, and what i noticed? Most of MT players, dont have even idea how TERA works. Boss, change targets and rush to random player. They think a Tank supposed to block this mechanic, other way he sux, and cant keep agro. On last boss, they flame a tank for bad runs, because they died from a last boss tail. I am sorry, i moved boss for half milimetr! SSHM first boss situation. i died 2 times, because DPS didnt wanted to put totems in a line, and only i were aimng them. "Tank shouldnt die so easly!" Let's back to another RMNM second boss situation. Everyone know its most damage depending boss in RMNM. I made a own party, full guilie with decent rolls. We got till 30% then we had no eggs. I was called moron, because i was not enough away from a little spider, and i got caught with other players, and we wiped. Healer said, its all my fault, because i die too often ( kitting boss with 5% hp, because healer was too busy ressing DPS) and DPS coulnd't back crit him.
    I got kicked, after he saw my dps -280k/s. He said i should shut up, since i supposed to do here easy 800k/s with guilie gear. One time i was insulted so many times in second boss, i just wanted to drop party. On last boss, i didnt died till 10%, did my perfect run, 3 stacks all the time, enrage AS GS in perfect time. Healer was spaming ress all the time for his guild floormasters, then he decided, to not ress me in last 20%. We wiped, i got kiced from party, and they say "thank u for trap idiot".

    U can think, i really do something wrong. But i did already 3 RMHM runs as my tank, and nobody said anything wrong about my tanking. Im newbie lancer, i try to be better to improve. Nobody usually say nothing about my tanking. I write all of this, to show a playing as lancer is really hard. People insulting u for every your little mistakes, dont help. Almost everyday i want to delete my lancer to do another 4 buttons ninja. Its not so easy like u can imagine. Tank is always near boss, cant iframe every his attack, need to spam skills to get agro, and block in proper time to not be killed. Tank need to know more mchanics than a random DPS. Almost in every run, i read "WTF, my warp barrier didnt work" few times in a row. Its sad.

    U can say, i shouldnt play tank, since its so hard for me...I think its hard for everyone, Thats why there are almost no tank. U can carry a DPS/healer in party and nobody notice, but when a Tank need some help and advice, he is " ..............<--your choice"

    Sorry for wall of text and my poor english.
  • T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    It's funny how he included healers. Like dude, the fuuck has healers to do with aggro

    it's funny how you can't fathom that i was talking about them stealing aggro. if you guys only knew what goes on while fighting a boss. sorry to read that you can't. seeing how you didn't know this, but healers can steal aggro, kind of awesome i actually had to explain that. always love people like you. so many of you to laugh at
  • spaming heals/motes - it do agro like from decent DPS
  • Healers get aggro after someone or the tank dies. Not sure why but this is due to the reset aggro bug. I've seen healer had aggro for so long while the tank was dead and a dps took about a good 5 or 6 seconds to get aggro on their side. Took that long because how the boss is moving and healer is trying to get away causing dps not to get enough damage uptime. People shouldn't laugh at this. I mean go ahead and try tanking and you will see what I mean. It's just the way it is. Don't be surprised if u see a healer get aggro after a dps or tank dies.
  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    56EGL4A3A5 wrote: »
    Hello. I am lancer, play this class 7 days. I use threating crystal, and usually i lose agro only when i die. Got problems also, when i try to move a boss to more safe place :) DPS behave like brainless zombie ( eating numbers instead of brains) and they cant see, boss is already too much near dangerous place. ( like eggs, second boss RMNM or a gate.) its obvious i cant spam all my attacks, and move boss in same time. So vs a OP sorc and Ninja i lose agro very easy, they didnt even notice, and run into eggs, insulting tank in same time. They dont see a boss rush into them, they dont even change position, just dpsing and faping to their DPS meter. When boss already ate 3 eggs in a row, they kick tank, because he didnt moved it. I did many IM RMNM run, and what i noticed? Most of MT players, dont have even idea how TERA works. Boss, change targets and rush to random player. They think a Tank supposed to block this mechanic, other way he sux, and cant keep agro. On last boss, they flame a tank for bad runs, because they died from a last boss tail. I am sorry, i moved boss for half milimetr! SSHM first boss situation. i died 2 times, because DPS didnt wanted to put totems in a line, and only i were aimng them. "Tank shouldnt die so easly!" Let's back to another RMNM second boss situation. Everyone know its most damage depending boss in RMNM. I made a own party, full guilie with decent rolls. We got till 30% then we had no eggs. I was called moron, because i was not enough away from a little spider, and i got caught with other players, and we wiped. Healer said, its all my fault, because i die too often ( kitting boss with 5% hp, because healer was too busy ressing DPS) and DPS coulnd't back crit him.
    I got kicked, after he saw my dps -280k/s. He said i should shut up, since i supposed to do here easy 800k/s with guilie gear. One time i was insulted so many times in second boss, i just wanted to drop party. On last boss, i didnt died till 10%, did my perfect run, 3 stacks all the time, enrage AS GS in perfect time. Healer was spaming ress all the time for his guild floormasters, then he decided, to not ress me in last 20%. We wiped, i got kiced from party, and they say "thank u for trap idiot".

    U can think, i really do something wrong. But i did already 3 RMHM runs as my tank, and nobody said anything wrong about my tanking. Im newbie lancer, i try to be better to improve. Nobody usually say nothing about my tanking. I write all of this, to show a playing as lancer is really hard. People insulting u for every your little mistakes, dont help. Almost everyday i want to delete my lancer to do another 4 buttons ninja. Its not so easy like u can imagine. Tank is always near boss, cant iframe every his attack, need to spam skills to get agro, and block in proper time to not be killed. Tank need to know more mchanics than a random DPS. Almost in every run, i read "WTF, my warp barrier didnt work" few times in a row. Its sad.

    U can say, i shouldnt play tank, since its so hard for me...I think its hard for everyone, Thats why there are almost no tank. U can carry a DPS/healer in party and nobody notice, but when a Tank need some help and advice, he is " ..............<--your choice"

    Sorry for wall of text and my poor english.

    Seems like you run into really mean people who don't know their own mechanics.

    Considering that you have only played 7 days as lancer and already tackling rmhm with 3 clears is such a great achievement. I don't think many people can accomplish that and it takes a lot of bravery to take responsibilities as a tank.

    When I started lancer in 2014, well let's just say I was not that good like you are already. It took me months into brhm patch to learn about aggro system and why I keep lose aggro? That's when I started learning. Anyway, people don't know how hard it is a lancer to learn tanking at first. There is so much involved. Like you mention, how a tank needs to know everything before everyone does. Those people that are healers or dps, never played a tank class will never understand what it takes to be a tank. It's their fault for not iframing certain mechanics. Their deaths result in aggro resets, which is not your fault. This also chains into boss moving away and affecting like 2nd boss rmhm can be tricky if it becomes that bad.

    And it's normal at rmhm last boss to die at times. It took me about a good 5 or 6 clears to finally find a comfortable zone within myself. But I been playing almost 2 years lancer but you start 7 days ago. Just keep practicing, you will be great. If we only had other people with the same mindset but this is why we have lack of tanks, not everyone tries and not all are made for tanking.
  • T5P669R3CFT5P669R3CF ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    cloud3431 wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    It's funny how he included healers. Like dude, the fuuck has healers to do with aggro

    it's funny how you can't fathom that i was talking about them stealing aggro. if you guys only knew what goes on while fighting a boss. sorry to read that you can't. seeing how you didn't know this, but healers can steal aggro, kind of awesome i actually had to explain that. always love people like you. so many of you to laugh at

    Cause they don't steal aggro forgodsake, and if you're talking about when healers get aggro when someone dies (which rarely happens) you can't call it stealing because the game is designed that way idiot.
    cloud3431 wrote: »
    kind of awesome i actually had to explain that

    Explanation? where? lol. Guess who's going on a pointless rant :v
    56EGL4A3A5 wrote: »
    spaming heals/motes - it do agro like from decent DPS

    I am so done.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    dinners wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    dinners wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    I'm a lv65 sorc with +15sf weap and +12gloves(both PvE rolls and keen2 etch), +12guilie armor and boots. I'd say a mid-tier gear with decent build and using Yosha's basic PvE skill rotation.

    I've been doing IM dgns up to SCHM and most of the tanks are just horrible at holding aggro, I understand the consequences of IM but this is just ridiculous. ran with +15impe weap and gloves brawler and just with full mana boost rotation i stole it right away even if i only did a decent dps -.- I dont usually do LFG's because people are dicks, looking for elites only and i usually double queue dungeons and battlegrounds. It's been [filtered] for me to get the new tier gears. They(BHS) should've at least considered Eclipse potion, knowing there are still people gearing up and learning. And sorc in PvP sucks [filtered]. zzz

    -You should try tanking then.
    - I think, you don't know about agro system in Tera.
    1. If someone die in party, agro may randomly moves to another party member.
    2. If 2 other dps party member do much less dps than your total dps, then you get more chance to still agro from tank.
    3. Sorc and Ninja can deal tons of damage on boss in short of period. Sometimes, my +12 Guild Sorc steal agro from +15 brawler/ tank too. It doesn't mean they are lazy or bad.
    4. Mana problem. Simply, Nostrum is alot better than Infusion charm. Priest's mana charge is alot better too. I have used lots mana pot when I play Lancer. Lancer use more Mana pot than Brawler. Still, brawler used to pop mana potion more often.

    -At least try tank class. then make complains. You are playing one of the easiest class and complains to tank? I use Stone skins before I make complains to tank.


    Sorc one of the easiest class? LOOOOOOLLLL do you even know your class? it's still the 2nd tier hardest class to play even when revamp mate. ffs

    After revamp sorc, Sorc is 2nd teir hardest class? LOL. Sorc is hard? For me, Ninja and Sorc are easiest and most OP in dps.

    Because it just got revamped? Classes right now aren't balanced and you still need heavy skill rotation to deliver its maximum dps. Dunno if you even played the other classes or just dumb enough to not to notice which are really easy to play *cough* reapers & gunners *cough*

    Sorc follows a strict rotation that only changes when forced to, a rotation is easy to remember... The only thing they ever need to consider in lightning resetting. Gunner has a priority list with resets being important, not only that, Gunner is currently garbage tier damage wise and is worse at surviving than Sorc is. Literally the hardest part of Sorc is deciding not to attack bosses from the front, since for some reason Sorc/Archers/Gunners like attacking from the front with Sorc/Archers auto attacking a lot and then blaming the class for doing no damage even though Sorc is now a top tier class. The fact I'm a mediocre Sorc and I can still achieve high damage just shows how simple the class really is when you actually know how to play Tera. Considering part of doing well on Tera is understanding how the combat works, and not necessarily the class since most classes on Tera are fairly straightforward. There's a reason why people tend to do bad with all classes.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »

    I lol'd at *You use Mana Boost whenever the boss is enraged*. Most bosses enraged at -50% hp and you don't have to use mana boost until then? Aye, that's like throwing away your dps. By what i mean you dont use mana boost at random times is that you don't use it at *improper* times, Shunkou gave an example: (When you have started the boss, and the tank is just building aggro yet) and by using it as soon as possible means you use it as soon as possible BUT at the right time(aggro built, positioned etc etc) cause it's fuckin stupid to wait for it to enrage when it just started. Common sense aren't so common ye.

    Bosses enrage after not being enraged for 10% HP, and tanks usually enrage at the start anyways. Bosses for the current patch are usually enraged pretty often unless your group is doing 0 damage.
  • T5P669R3CFT5P669R3CF ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    dinners wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    dinners wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    I'm a lv65 sorc with +15sf weap and +12gloves(both PvE rolls and keen2 etch), +12guilie armor and boots. I'd say a mid-tier gear with decent build and using Yosha's basic PvE skill rotation.

    I've been doing IM dgns up to SCHM and most of the tanks are just horrible at holding aggro, I understand the consequences of IM but this is just ridiculous. ran with +15impe weap and gloves brawler and just with full mana boost rotation i stole it right away even if i only did a decent dps -.- I dont usually do LFG's because people are dicks, looking for elites only and i usually double queue dungeons and battlegrounds. It's been [filtered] for me to get the new tier gears. They(BHS) should've at least considered Eclipse potion, knowing there are still people gearing up and learning. And sorc in PvP sucks [filtered]. zzz

    -You should try tanking then.
    - I think, you don't know about agro system in Tera.
    1. If someone die in party, agro may randomly moves to another party member.
    2. If 2 other dps party member do much less dps than your total dps, then you get more chance to still agro from tank.
    3. Sorc and Ninja can deal tons of damage on boss in short of period. Sometimes, my +12 Guild Sorc steal agro from +15 brawler/ tank too. It doesn't mean they are lazy or bad.
    4. Mana problem. Simply, Nostrum is alot better than Infusion charm. Priest's mana charge is alot better too. I have used lots mana pot when I play Lancer. Lancer use more Mana pot than Brawler. Still, brawler used to pop mana potion more often.

    -At least try tank class. then make complains. You are playing one of the easiest class and complains to tank? I use Stone skins before I make complains to tank.


    Sorc one of the easiest class? LOOOOOOLLLL do you even know your class? it's still the 2nd tier hardest class to play even when revamp mate. ffs

    After revamp sorc, Sorc is 2nd teir hardest class? LOL. Sorc is hard? For me, Ninja and Sorc are easiest and most OP in dps.

    Because it just got revamped? Classes right now aren't balanced and you still need heavy skill rotation to deliver its maximum dps. Dunno if you even played the other classes or just dumb enough to not to notice which are really easy to play *cough* reapers & gunners *cough*

    Sorc follows a strict rotation that only changes when forced to, a rotation is easy to remember... The only thing they ever need to consider in lightning resetting. Gunner has a priority list with resets being important, not only that, Gunner is currently garbage tier damage wise and is worse at surviving than Sorc is. Literally the hardest part of Sorc is deciding not to attack bosses from the front, since for some reason Sorc/Archers/Gunners like attacking from the front with Sorc/Archers auto attacking a lot and then blaming the class for doing no damage even though Sorc is now a top tier class. The fact I'm a mediocre Sorc and I can still achieve high damage just shows how simple the class really is when you actually know how to play Tera. Considering part of doing well on Tera is understanding how the combat works, and not necessarily the class since most classes on Tera are fairly straightforward. There's a reason why people tend to do bad with all classes.

    Sorc skill rotation is still complicated when you compare it with other classes. Dunno where you got that *Gunner is currently garbage tier damage wise and is worse at surviving than Sorc is* Bot heals? Bot pull? Roll? Rocket Jump? Emergency barrier? Heavy armor? and how is gunners' dps garbage lol. Seems like you've ran to a really [filtered] gunner.

    EDIT: But yeah, i might be overacting for sorc to be still at 2nd tier hardest class to play. Still they're not a candidate for the easiest classes.

    *Literally the hardest part of Sorc is deciding not to attack bosses from the front, since for some reason Sorc/Archers/Gunners like attacking from the front with Sorc/Archers auto attacking a lot and then blaming the class for doing no damage even though Sorc is now a top tier class*

    Idk where's the hard in that, that's a problem with people who are new to rpg and it can get used to easily. You forgot to consider Mana Boost rotation: shouldn't be of need for me to explain.
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    Bosses enrage after not being enraged for 10% HP, and tanks usually enrage at the start anyways. Bosses for the current patch are usually enraged pretty often unless your group is doing 0 damage.

    Applies as to what i said using it as soon as possible. If the tanks enrage at start and he can't hold aggro then he's for it to be blamed.
  • all I got from this forum is 5 pages of complaints from a group that has never run end game. Would assume at least 90% of this forum is only people who have never run end game. Short of the matter. Yes you have to play agro as a tank. Yes dps/healers can steal agro. Yes its ok for tank to lose agro momentarily to avoid 1 shots etc. or to reposition boss. Yes serveral dungeons have secondary agro mechanics and random targeting mechanics which the tank can do nothing about. All else is you people talking about things you clearly have never done.
  • NikuroTegaNikuroTega ✭✭✭✭
    I'm a Sorc.

    I too had my run-in with tanks that can't hold aggro. Instead of complaining, I geared my Lancer to help pitch in on the "lack-of-tanks problem."

    Maybe you should do the same.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Sorc skill rotation is still complicated when you compare it with other classes.
    Rotations that stay the same are not complicated. Warrior has no set rotation due to Blade Draw resets and needing edge for Sycthe, Slayer has no set rotation due to reliance on OHS resets, Gunner has no rotation due to AB resets and priority on gaining Will Power for Burst Fire. Even if a target isn't moving these classes have a lot of "what ifs", Sorc on a target that isn't moving doesn't have to worry about any of that due to being a rotation based class with their only reset not being anything of significance, and they don't have a secondary resource that is a big part of their damage to manage as they are only mana based. They also have no hidden facts about their class that requires research beyond knowing that Warp Barrier isn't actually an iframe, and even then, it applies to Gunner and Ninja too.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Dunno where you got that *Gunner is currently garbage tier damage wise
    Last place in damage if you exclude healers while being far behind the top 3 dps.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    and is worse at surviving than Sorc is*
    Everything basically 1 shots, and Gunner is slow with limited mobility.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Bot heals?
    2,000HP heal vs that 20,000+ DOT or 150,000~500,000 flat damage. Lets not forget you can't use AB and you have to stop moving, but good luck sitting there in those 1 shots so the bot can heal you 2,000HP. The new health pots are better.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Bot pull?
    Recall and other absorption doesn't work on a lot of 1 shots, and to use it for mobility requires a setup every time you die, compared to Sorcs easy to use Warp Barrier, as well as 24 second cd vs 10 second cd or Teleport Jaunt.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Roll?
    That's just an iframe, no distance moved unless you need the instance reposition of a couple meters, doesn't go through a lot of bosses, and not all attacks can be iframed. The Sorc has Teleport Jaunt or Backstep anyways (2 vs 1)
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Rocket Jump?
    Only form of moving, long cool down, compare that to Sorc's superior teleport jaunt, or backstep, or glacial retreat (3 vs 1)
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Emergency barrier?
    Not all mechanics trigger it, in fact, most things ignore it and outright kill the Gunner, and what triggers it are things like DOTs that will outright kill the Gunner anyways.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Heavy armor?
    Classes have hidden defense modifiers that are independent of armor type that BHS freely adjusts (Gunner had their defense against bosses lowered without actually nerfing heavy armor itself), and most attacks that kill you do flat damage this patch (ignores armor).
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    and how is gunners' dps garbage lol. Seems like you've ran to a really [filtered] gunner.
    How is being last place when all classes play optimally not "garbage"? Doing barely more than 1m means nothing when Ninja/Sorc are close to 2m and soon Archer will be better than those 2.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Idk where's the hard in that, that's a problem with people who are new to rpg and it can get used to easily. You forgot to consider Mana Boost rotation: shouldn't be of need for me to explain.
    Are you really trying to tell me that using Arcane->Meteor->w/e->Arcane->Meteor->w/e->Arcane->Meteor is somehow more complicated than adjusting on Warrior or Slayer? You do the something as Sorc regardless of what is going on while re-positioning. There's also plenty of time during Mana Boost to get 3x Meteors as long as you're using it off cool down. However, managing your cool downs isn't even something exclusive to Sorc anyways, so if that makes Sorc "complicated" then all classes are equally "complicated" in that aspect. Sorc has never been complicated, people just don't face the back of the boss which results in dps loss, people who play ranged classes tend to have very poor positioning compared to melee classes.
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Applies as to what i said using it as soon as possible. If the tanks enrage at start and he can't hold aggro then he's for it to be blamed.
    Brawler's shout guarantees they don't lose aggro for a short period if they shout->enrage (Enrage animation can be cancelled)->GF. Soon Lancer/Warrior will get the same thing. As for now, Lancer only needs you to wait about ~2 seconds. They'll also have their 2 buffs up while enraging too. You were claiming bosses don't enrage, when they are easily enraged ~50% of the time aside for the last boss of RMHM due to it being difficult for most groups, which results in less enrage time relative to the fight duration since there's lower dps.
  • The reason why most lancers prefer using two pounding on their weapon (at least in my case) instead of one + Threatening is that lancers are the only tanking class that don't have the DPS power like warriors / brawlers do. So I have to compensate. Yes I play aggressively (mostly becasue my ping is always ~200ms, if I don't - bye bye aggro), yes I need babysitting at times for that reason alone and yes there are mechanics that puts me on hold generating aggro while some DPS continues to attack all considering but even so, I rarely lose the aggro.

    What ppl seem to forget at times, is that if party members randomly die like fly, there is not much we can do, the aggro will shift.
    I believe that an increase of lancers base attack mod will improve the issue by a lot.

    Also, people move to a DPS class most of the times because " heck with the responsibilities, I wanna see big numbers on my screen ;v "

    -My opinion.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    Sorc skill rotation is still complicated when you compare it with other classes.
    Rotations that stay the same are not complicated. Warrior has no set rotation due to Blade Draw resets and needing edge for Sycthe, Slayer has no set rotation due to reliance on OHS resets, Gunner has no rotation due to AB resets and priority on gaining Will Power for Burst Fire. Even if a target isn't moving these classes have a lot of "what ifs", Sorc on a target that isn't moving doesn't have to worry about any of that due to being a rotation based class with their only reset not being anything of significance, and they don't have a secondary resource that is a big part of their damage to manage as they are only mana based. They also have no hidden facts about their class that requires research beyond knowing that Warp Barrier isn't actually an iframe, and even then, it applies to Gunner and Ninja too.

    Lightning Strike isn't exactly insignificant. I agree that Sorc rotation on a stationary target isn't hard, but on a moving one, it's pretty tough to keep up with AP/Meteors because of cast times compared to Warrior, Slayer, and Gunner, or even get off 3x AP/Meteor during Mana Boost if the boss decides to move during those 20 seconds.
  • T5P669R3CFT5P669R3CF ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    @musetwo Do tell us in which case does end game experience is required for this matter.

    @Yamazuki lol nice wall of text pretty much composed of bullshts. Try harder, diff people are explaining it for you.
    i dont remember claiming bosses dont enrage. *Sorc has never been complicated* haha yeah right. Doubt you've played sorc
  • T5P669R3CF wrote: »
    @musetwo Do tell us in which case does end game experience is required for this matter.

    @Yamazuki lol nice wall of text pretty much composed of bullshts. Try harder, diff people are explaining it for you.
    i dont remember claiming bosses dont enrage. *Sorc has never been complicated* haha yeah right. Doubt you've played sorc

    I already did. I mentioned points that people were saying are not valid when they clearly are. Do you not read or have the ability to comprehend?
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