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Can the Ace Shop prices be heavily adjusted?

Even though you can now reset Ace Dungeons with reset scrolls, the prices still don't make sense for the time invested. I want to like the shop, but the prices are way out of whack. I'm assuming the max you can get is 242 for one double S+ run with +10% medal bonus. An example of what I'm talking about:
  • Caprin Horn x1 = 2,500 Medals (11 runs for one single Caprin horn that costs 150g on average)
  • Goddess Tear x1 = 2,400 medals (10 runs for one single Tear that costs about 1000g on average)
    *You can already see how these prices don't match up.
  • Titan's Ember x1 = 1,000 medals (5 runs for for a single Ember that is 150~200g on average)
  • Spellbind Tier 10 x1 = 150 medals (1 run for a single Spellbind. 10 runs for x16 Spellbinds, because that is the lowest amount required for any Tier 10 gear. This means, 2,400 medals for x16 Spellbind, and not even the tradeable kind.

The Colluva ore is in the shop for 200 medals. To me, that is fair. One run, one ore. Seeing as you can reset, you can get a whole lot of ore out of that per day especially with a lot of characters. But Caprin horns? They have the same use and require the same amount as Colluva. The only difference is that the Horns are used for the current best gear. Of course they should have a higher price, but 2,500? The dungeons only take a minute or two if you have proper gear, but to waste all those reset scrolls on just 1 horn is ridiculous. You can get 2 Caprin Horns from one x40 Intercede Token IoD bam vanguard, and that only takes a few minutes and requires no loading in and out of an instance or reset scroll spamming. On top of the prices being high, none of the prices are matching their current value for time invested. What's worse is that the medal shop is per character, not per account; so even if you farm hardcore on all your characters, their balance will remain their own.

8,000 medals for a Tier 2 etching isn't bad, considering you can farm one in just a couple of days if you indeed do reset scroll spam. That's not a big deal because the Tier 2s are 15k+ each. But why does 4 Caprin Horns (a total whopping value of 600g) cost more medals than a Tier 2 etching? I'm not asking to be able to farm 500 of any given item in one day, but it should really be in the realm of reality.

For my suggestion, I'm going to set the value of medals to center around the average price of Offensive Etching IIs, which I'd say is about 17k. That means each medal would be about 2.16g. (8000 medals at 2.16g is roughly 17k). This would make the price of Caprin Horns (150g average) to be "324" tokens; Goddess Tears to be "2160" tokens; Titan's Embers to be (at 200g ea) "432" tokens. I would add a price for Spellbinds, but that's difficult because it's an item that can inflate or deflate depending on active or recent events that pour out SBs (like this recent event) and the prices can change like the seasons. So that's a rough one. Still, I would say 75 medals would be fair for one Spellbind, because let's face it, who is really going to farm Ace for one T10 spellbind if it's too high? I would raise those average prices up though. To me, it would make sense if the prices looked something like this:
  • Caprin Horn x1 = 450 or 500 medals
  • Goddess Tear = 2000 medals (to be honest, 2,400 medals for this is the most reasonable price I've seen aside from etchings. They could stay, but if new brooches are around the corner, then reducing these to 2,000 makes sense)
  • Titan's Ember x1 = 500 medals
  • Spellbind Tier 10 x1 = 75 medals

I would like feedback on this, and to know if I'm not the only one that finds the current prices on some items to be very bad and random.
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Comments

  • Great feedback! If possible, it'd be great if a noct and MWA box gets added. The recent event gave me a good sum of nocts (10k) but I'm not a big fan of DGs, and I use them up like crazy... it'd give me a real reason to run it daily just for that alone. MWA boxes are universally cheap on every server I believe, 225g per box on average on my server. So you'd get 1 MWA box per run, 4 a day without resets. I think that sounds reasonable, and would help lowbies when they're gearing up.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great feedback! If possible, it'd be great if a noct and MWA box gets added. The recent event gave me a good sum of nocts (10k) but I'm not a big fan of DGs, and I use them up like crazy... it'd give me a real reason to run it daily just for that alone. MWA boxes are universally cheap on every server I believe, 225g per box on average on my server. So you'd get 1 MWA box per run, 4 a day without resets. I think that sounds reasonable, and would help lowbies when they're gearing up.

    If the purpose of adding alkahest is for newer players, then personal alkahests would make more sense.
  • AshernAshern ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Thanks, it would be a good addition too. I like the various shops the game has; Vanguard, Killing Spree, Bellicarium, Ace and Token shop, but about 90% of the items in each shop are priced at unreasonable amounts to the point where it's not efficient to ever buy those items... Personal alkahest is cool too since the Spellbinds are personal.

    I know it will be said "Tera is an MMO, not a solo game," but when the game presents itself with "solo" dungeons that have "solo shops," I would at least expect it to be a decent way to benefit the "solo player" that takes time to do it. I'm all for farming, solo or in a party, but I would enjoy farming Ace a lot more if buying 1 relevant item didn't take 2 weeks for what could be obtained in 10 minutes elsewhere.

    I'm not sure if it makes a difference but...... @Spacecats :p
  • StevenAnthonyStevenAnthony ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    like you say " you dont need farm this dungeon instead iod/celestial arena/guillegade ( for mwa) /low tier dungeon lv 65" for buy same materials, the only reason all people do this ace dung. , is for perma etching II,

    one character + Bravery potion / canenphora 30/1 hours for kill fast bosses

    elite and normal playes have a 2 baracos and 2 akasha runs per day = 4 runs

    3 kinds of Reset scrolls
    Veteran Reset Scrolls +4 runs,
    instance reset Scrolls + 4 runs
    Elite reset scrolls + 4 runs

    if you use all of them is 4 elite/f2p + 4 form veteran, + 4 from instance reset + 4 from elite reset ( plus for elite status) = 12 runs F2p---- 16 runs elite players

    more maths

    example : sourcer , im chooise speed run + bam slam ( warp barrier helps to akasha dbuff/charge )

    +S : 120 +S:120 = 240
    1 run baracos
    2 runs :480 +
    +S: 120 +S:120= 240
    1 run akasha
    2 runs : 480
    = 960

    240 * 16= 3840
    = 960*4 =3840 per day ( maybe take like a 1-2 hours )

    in 2 days = 7680
    , you only need other 2 baracos and 1 akasah more for get 8000 medals

    again, all people do this dungeon only for etching II because other stuff from shop are more easy farmeable from other sourcers, like you say
  • Sadly I didn't have that many Vet reset scrolls because I used them up during the Ghillie triple drop. So it would be limited to 2 resets for me. But as you said, the only worthwhile thing in the store are etchings. I would like that to change, because as it stands, there's no reason to have all that stuff in the shop if it's not actually meant to be purchased. I'd also actually like to farm the stuff that's in the store, but not for the unreasonable amounts of medals that they are currently sold for.
  • I agree the prices are very imbalanced. It is still possible to sell etchs and buy rest of mats on tb with that money, but it's still ridiculous to have a whole 'shop' with only 1 thing to buy. I'm surprised nobody from EME noticed how overpriced spellbinds and mats are in medal shop - it's not 20 or even 50%, more like 300%.
  • KoikoiKoikoi ✭✭✭
    @Xandervb
    For staff to know what is fair and what is not price wise you would need to have staff active in game and actually spend time playing end game.

    This has been imo an issue since a few of the older staff left EME.

    Player Council I thought was made to bridge this void (lack of staff in game) and help out that way. Either it just takes a long time for things to get processed or they are not being listened too.
  • edited November 2016
    Koikoi wrote: »
    @Xandervb
    For staff to know what is fair and what is not price wise you would need to have staff active in game and actually spend time playing end game.

    This has been imo an issue since a few of the older staff left EME.

    Player Council I thought was made to bridge this void (lack of staff in game) and help out that way. Either it just takes a long time for things to get processed or they are not being listened too.

    It's more of an issue because BHS has increased the pace at which they're sending new builds to EME. So with things changing so frequently, it's harder to sit down and make these sorts of balance changes. Plus, with so many different kinds of tokens now spread across all the different kinds of content, it's hard for anyone to sit down and really get a clear picture of BHS's rationale behind all the pricing for each different thing, and how whatever they're going to add to the next patch is going to impact the big picture of supply/demand. It's easier for something like PvP which is more standalone, but PvE has lots of interconnected parts.

    It's worth considering that the fact they have different options on there and some of them are "not worth it" isn't necessarily entirely an accident. They want to drive people to do different kinds of content for different rewards. With both this and the IoD BAMs they've made it possible to get a lot through solo play, but it isn't necessarily the most efficient for everything. If you adjust all the rewards on the solo merchants so that everything is priced "fairly" compared to current market value, it will have a cascading impact on other content in the game. Just because it's "possible" to earn something via multiple methods doesn't mean all methods are equal, nor should they be necessarily.

    I'm not saying that there isn't merit to adjusting some of the prices because some of it is based on availability/rarity in K-TERA and other markets, not what it's like here, but at the same time the job of balancing merchants overall falls to the developers. EME tweaks things in some cases, but I don't think anyone even on Player Council has any expectation that they'll be in there always rebalancing everything BHS did. (If there's something consistently wrong in how BHS balances the merchants, BHS should fix it rather than EME undoing/redoing it. At least EME should understand BHS's reasons before messing with it.) Targeted intervention to fix significant shortcomings is more likely, and even then merchants may not be the best way. The more merchants they mess with, the higher the odds are for regressions in future patches.
  • SpacecatsSpacecats ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for this, guys. I think because Bluehole is responsible for setting these amounts, it will be best to consult them on the matter. But you make some very good arguments! I'll pass this on.
  • Spacecats wrote: »
    Thanks for this, guys. I think because Bluehole is responsible for setting these amounts, it will be best to consult them on the matter. But you make some very good arguments! I'll pass this on.

    Thanks!
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually we need updates on merchants, Crystals merchants and those white crystals needs some updates. Vanguard merchants sell shits :D Fasion coupon store, Tikat store. all also obsolete. while you are at it, talk about those too B)
  • LesbianVi wrote: »
    Actually we need updates on merchants, Crystals merchants and those white crystals needs some updates. Vanguard merchants sell shits :D Fasion coupon store, Tikat store. all also obsolete. while you are at it, talk about those too B)

    You forgot Novelties store :P
  • It'd be nice to see these stores sell miscellaneous item like gems, other fireworks other from snaps and maybe lunch boxes.
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fulzoid wrote: »
    LesbianVi wrote: »
    Actually we need updates on merchants, Crystals merchants and those white crystals needs some updates. Vanguard merchants sell shits :D Fasion coupon store, Tikat store. all also obsolete. while you are at it, talk about those too B)

    You forgot Novelties store :P

    Yeah, since they are so expensive I forgot them lol :D Sowwy
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