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Comments
@Borsuc No there would be no alternatives if all dungeons were equalized? What alternatives would there be? And fwc was the only larger scale PvP in the game that let you use your own gear. So cutting that out cuts out almost every devoted PvPer. I'm not sure what you have against players who actual put time into gearing but please don't ruin our experience too when there has always been options for eq PvP already.
Too bad we're talking about PvP here, not the broker form of "PvP" he does, where obviously it's for his interest.
Cause "everyone has Conflate since it's so ez to make", that's why right? :awesome: think what would happen with price of MWA if no new gear was ever, ever, ever released.
Game's health is not measured by economy, because this is not the stock market. Yeah there's PvP games out there with no economies whatsoever, shocking I bet, but it's true. (I mean ingame economies, obviously)
it's not just conflate, less people are making new gear than ever before. And of course a game's health can be measured by the economy when there are real life equivalents a large part of it such as emp amd especially when the amount of emp in the game is always a reflection of player conscious choices to buy/sell it. Besides, you shouldn't compare tera to other games because tera has its own business model that it used to succeed and even if eme is unwilling to provide numbers for us, a lot can be surmised based on in game activity/events and out of game events as to the health of the game.
Obviously EME can see the effects it's having on TERA's economy and player numbers.
[quote="Spacecats;90384"]There aren't any updates on this yet, but I wanted to let you guys know we've been tracking this discussion since the update. We agree that FWC should be reverted to non-equalized gear.[/quote]
Wow, that's a stupid premise. Of course we get to cherry pick. Some changes are good, some changes are irrelevant and some are bad. Based on your logic, if they changed enchanting tomorrow so that every try is guaranteed to succeed and I accept that change...if next week they changed it so you have to pay $10 to enter a dungeon, I should also accept that. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?!
Of course if there are rewards like this every weekend, you will get to play this and somewhat enjoy it in EQ, but I will still hate the fact that people can get away from cheesing due to how bad the gear is.
I think some of us mentioned before, but many of us have no qualms at all if FWC is EQ if 1) there will be an uneq battleground that has mass-pvp and has some incentive to play, 2) Gear are actually balanced properly (because no stun duration reduction is sooooo balanced in BHS' eyes) 3) PvP actually gets more thought from the devs and you don't get reapers who can perma staggerlock by pressing spacebar. Of course the reaper example is over exaggerating but you get the point.
Eventually it is not on the developers, but on the players as well. Regardless of time, people still QQ about being two shot when they are in hardy, and dealing no damage because apparently they think spiteful/wrathful actually works on players.
I don't usually defend kami, but he has a point. There is little incentive left to gear for PvP, and because of that the PvP market dropped drastically. PvE servers and heck some PvX and PvE players from PvP servers rely heavily on the most garbage battlegrounds in the list to get bonanza boxes.
I'm not sure you fully understand the argument being crushed here and it is even more hilarious that they (kami etc) think they are fooling people with "Conflate is so ez to get everyone has it" (in general). :awesome:
Let's break it down logically since i'm sick of nonsense.
So, according to you, people don't have much incentive to gear anymore, they mostly geared for FWC, is that correct? Ok, which means they do not have the gear, i.e they do NOT HAVE Conflate yet. Which again, must I remind you that it is gear from previous patch? Yeah, think about the people who had it last patch and keep babbling how "everyone has Conflate cause it's easy to make". The people who "quit" because of the eq change, in other words, already had it. Those people have Conflate already so by THIS logic, let's exclude them completely, cause they don't matter! Owned #1.
Second case: even if people lack Conflate, we are only interested in them running FWC for credits here. Obviously, nobody is crying that CS, Kuma or other BGs don't pop, right? (even if CS doesn't, they don't care) I mean it's obvious. So who do you want to queue for CREDITS in FWC? People who don't have Conflate!!!
What does this mean? That's right, it means you'd get people without the "so easy to make" Conflate in FWC and they would keep it alive based on this logic (hey, YOU assumed that people's incentive to gear is what makes it pop, not me! so this is a consequence of your argument).
Which means you indirectly IMPLY that for FWC to be alive it must have fodder people queuing which don't have Conflate yet. This nullifies your "Conflate is so easy to make so normal uneq is balanced cause everyone has it!!!" argument COMPLETELY. Owned #2.
NOTE: when I say "you" here, I refer to everyone who used that argument as a plural form, including kamizuma.
And lastly, why does economy worry always come from people in the 1% richest? Think about it for a second.
And let me tell you something, rich people who bought credits off others do not matter in your argument because they already have Conflate, and that is one of the reasons for the entire thing: it is old gear, old reward, that people already have. Period.
Here's my take: rewards do not have to apply to the BG itself. People will still run it for rewards. Perfect example: Murderous Intent, rankings, achievements. All this stuff does not matter in the respective BG, gives you no edge whatsoever, only out of it. It's still a reward, a properly done reward. Look at Overwatch, no reward will ever make you able to win easier, yet it still has rewards.
Most of those were taken away right now so yet another slap in the face. (MI, Rankings)
Obvious things for people with common sense.
That is the whole point of an argument. You can't argue about objective truths/facts because one is definitively right and the other one is definitively wrong. The only way a discussion doesn't come down to "The Earth is flat"-"Wow, you are an idiot" is if you are talking about opinions.
So, what makes an opinion more valid(I don't think valuable is the right word)? How many people share it. I don't even remember there being complaints about CDR but I do see FWC not popping after it got equalised. One of these changes has/had an observable impact on the game while the other one had a couple of guys(maybe?) briefly whine on the forums. And, speaking of differences...
CDR was in the game prior to VM2, it existed in the form of Nostrums that people were not only using but viewed as mandatory. It was seen as a needed and valuable stat and people naturally wanted mroe of it. Just like crut rate, power, endurance, attack speed etc. VM2 simply extended it to more skills/classes and allowed you to have more of it.
EQ gear has been a part of the game for a while as well. However, people have always found it lacking and suggestions on how to improve it/make it work have been popping up on forums the entire time. From mystic thralls in CS/BftP/3v3 through stun stat on earrings in 3v3 to today's FWC issue. CS was considered "noob friendly" and eq gear was accepted, 3v3 saw it as a chance to revive a dying BG, FWC, however, was neither of those(at least when they brought out the patch, it's had its ups and downs over the years). This change was simply not needed and ended up killing the BG as different people have different reasons for disliking it. FWC has always been the "endgame" BG and the last place that required the full package(since CU:V died, just as I predicted) and allowed you to play the way you want to.
But yeah, about the argument thing, in fact your flat earth example is a good one.
Considering people who claim it as flat have only opinions and no facts to back it up. Well they do have some "facts", but unfortunately are not enough because those same facts also work for a round earth. And in most cases, they have no explanation for many things (including horizon), there's actually a flat earth society forum out there and yes, most of them totally ignore the opposition arguments which use facts and refuse to explain certain observed phenomena. In this case the round earthers obviously use the superior argument, as it's not just an opinion, but based on more observable evidence and facts.
EDIT: By "observable evidence" I don't even mean NASA or pictures from space or 3rd party. I mean evidence you can see for yourself, like flat earthers unable to explain the horizon properly, and so on. That stuff you can see for yourself.
I'm talking about CDR, the stat that decrease cooldown of skills. It comes in the form of buffs, glyphs and gear lines.
That's not even in the general vicinity of the point of this thread.
Complaints about lowering of attack speed =/= complaints about adding CDR to gear rolls.
[quote[but the biggest was probably after etchings were added with Reaper patch, when e.g zerks could permanently KD you without retaliate (back then without even newer skills, at lv60 cap).[/quote]
A zerk can also perma kd you in CS. But, yeah, sure blame the gear.
There's this thing called "build diversity". I guess I should expect "If they wanted skills to crit harder, they'd just code them to do so which is why crystals are stupid" next.
OK...thanks for...elaborating on my point, I guess. At least it shows you understood it...maybe.
This thread is about FWC which is a BG. So yeah, that's about being in the context of the topic at hand.
No he couldn't, before lv65 cap. (no Throwing Axe etc). Now he can, but other classes got new skills too, some needed survival skills on some (like sorc). Before lv60 cap, there was none of this yet zerks could perma KD because of that damn stat.
Nope, they didn't make skills crit harder simply to add a layer of grind. What's next? Master Glyphs are "build diversity" too because otherwise "they'd just make them available for free"? Yeah right. It's purposeful grind and handicap. Everyone uses the same build depending on what activity anyway -- unless again it's a trap for newbies, there's one proven to be optimal (especially in PvE, but that's not the point of the thread).
With crystals it's even worse, because not using Savage in PvP is like a trap for newbies. That's apart from the grind (i.e for Dyads).
Well, good job on disproving your own point.Keep it up and I'll have nothing left to do here.
For those defending it:
Nvr 4ghetti pls
Eq gear isnt really Eq
Im not reading the thread at all because i dont have time so i read just the first page! So this comment might look random af owo
Im just impressed this had no "likes" while some other irrelevant stuff did.