[TERA PC & Console] En Masse is closing, but TERA lives on! We will continue to support TERA PC (NA) and TERA Console until service is transferred. Stay tuned for more information.
[TERA Console] The Grotto of Lost Souls update (v85) is now live! Read the patch notes here: https://bit.ly/TERACon_v85

[TERA PC] The 64-bit update (v97) is now live. Check out all the changes delivered on August 11 here: https://bit.ly/tera64_patchnotes
[TERA PC & CONSOLE] Summerfest Part 2: The Beach Bash is on from August 11 until September 1! Participate in event activities to earn tokens redeemable for costumes, consumables, mounts, and more! Details: https://bit.ly/tera_sf20

Literally LOVING equa Fwc, yes i really do

12346

Comments

  • @felipemagz You are correct cs pops more than fwc when both are equalized because it has better rewards. However it still takes a much longer time to pop than fwc when it wasn't eq. This is because the PvP guilds don't care to queue these bgs because they are knowledgeable enough to know how terribly equalized they are. PvP bgs hardly pop because the largest most devoted pvp population is being treated poor

    @Borsuc No there would be no alternatives if all dungeons were equalized? What alternatives would there be? And fwc was the only larger scale PvP in the game that let you use your own gear. So cutting that out cuts out almost every devoted PvPer. I'm not sure what you have against players who actual put time into gearing but please don't ruin our experience too when there has always been options for eq PvP already.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    hellno wrote: »
    You are arguing with kamizuma who understands the player base WAYYYY more than almost any other person in tera. If you have ever watched his stream you would see how amazingly smart he is and his deep understand of the flow of the game and economy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority you're good at it.

    Too bad we're talking about PvP here, not the broker form of "PvP" he does, where obviously it's for his interest.
    kamizuma wrote: »
    I said if you compare the price at the same points in time of the similar equivalent-use items --> cont/flat nodes back then vs insanity/victory badges now it's clear that people don't value pvp related items as much in this game anymore.
    Cause "everyone has Conflate since it's so ez to make", that's why right? :awesome: think what would happen with price of MWA if no new gear was ever, ever, ever released.
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Making one of the very few places left to need pvp gear equalized has a lot more consequences than just affecting that one bg. Is equalized in of itself a bad idea for specifically fraywind and the bg itself? I don't think it's a bad idea if it's done correctly but for the game health as a whole it's not good.
    Game's health is not measured by economy, because this is not the stock market. Yeah there's PvP games out there with no economies whatsoever, shocking I bet, but it's true. (I mean ingame economies, obviously)
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Borsuc wrote: »
    hellno wrote: »
    You are arguing with kamizuma who understands the player base WAYYYY more than almost any other person in tera. If you have ever watched his stream you would see how amazingly smart he is and his deep understand of the flow of the game and economy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority you're good at it.

    Too bad we're talking about PvP here, not the broker form of "PvP" he does, where obviously it's for his interest.
    kamizuma wrote: »
    I said if you compare the price at the same points in time of the similar equivalent-use items --> cont/flat nodes back then vs insanity/victory badges now it's clear that people don't value pvp related items as much in this game anymore.
    Cause "everyone has Conflate since it's so ez to make", that's why right? :awesome: think what would happen with price of MWA if no new gear was ever, ever, ever released.
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Making one of the very few places left to need pvp gear equalized has a lot more consequences than just affecting that one bg. Is equalized in of itself a bad idea for specifically fraywind and the bg itself? I don't think it's a bad idea if it's done correctly but for the game health as a whole it's not good.
    Game's health is not measured by economy, because this is not the stock market. Yeah there's PvP games out there with no economies whatsoever, shocking I bet, but it's true. (I mean ingame economies, obviously)

    it's not just conflate, less people are making new gear than ever before. And of course a game's health can be measured by the economy when there are real life equivalents a large part of it such as emp amd especially when the amount of emp in the game is always a reflection of player conscious choices to buy/sell it. Besides, you shouldn't compare tera to other games because tera has its own business model that it used to succeed and even if eme is unwilling to provide numbers for us, a lot can be surmised based on in game activity/events and out of game events as to the health of the game.
  • KoikoiKoikoi ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Just going to leave this here.
    Obviously EME can see the effects it's having on TERA's economy and player numbers.


    [quote="Spacecats;90384"]There aren't any updates on this yet, but I wanted to let you guys know we've been tracking this discussion since the update. We agree that FWC should be reverted to non-equalized gear.[/quote]
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Borsuc wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    It doesn't matter that it didn't exist 4 years ago.It exists now.
    You know what else exists now? Equalized gear with the stats it has. Cherry picking only the changes/updates to the "meta" that you like doesn't make your point any more valid. People who accept CDR have no room to complain about the eq gear lacking it or whatnot. Because they've already accepted a change others hated (CDR being added to the game), who are you to think your opinion is somehow more valid then theirs back then? Either you embrace every change or none. You can't say "oh BHS did right to introduce CDR" and now "BHS did wrong to add eq gear" and expect it to be some kind of objective argument.

    Also the question was just in general but basically implied what I said above. e.g:

    VM2 patch lands, I speak against CDR, find it [filtered] -> people (who probably are against eq now lmao) say "deal with it"
    This patch hits, they speak against eq -> me (and others who loved VM1 times) say "deal with it"

    What makes you think the first case is somehow more valid? Keep thinking it's different just because it suited your opinion. (once again speaking in general, not to you specifically, was explaining the question)

    Wow, that's a stupid premise. Of course we get to cherry pick. Some changes are good, some changes are irrelevant and some are bad. Based on your logic, if they changed enchanting tomorrow so that every try is guaranteed to succeed and I accept that change...if next week they changed it so you have to pay $10 to enter a dungeon, I should also accept that. Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?!
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    The reason why FWC pops like mad on reward week is because of the rewards, and as you can see the quality of the players are also way lower than the past. Less actual skilled pvpers from the old times are in FWC now. Note that for quite sometime, FWC was known as the +15 festival, where nearly all players in there are usually geared for pvp.

    Of course if there are rewards like this every weekend, you will get to play this and somewhat enjoy it in EQ, but I will still hate the fact that people can get away from cheesing due to how bad the gear is.

    I think some of us mentioned before, but many of us have no qualms at all if FWC is EQ if 1) there will be an uneq battleground that has mass-pvp and has some incentive to play, 2) Gear are actually balanced properly (because no stun duration reduction is sooooo balanced in BHS' eyes) 3) PvP actually gets more thought from the devs and you don't get reapers who can perma staggerlock by pressing spacebar. Of course the reaper example is over exaggerating but you get the point.

    Eventually it is not on the developers, but on the players as well. Regardless of time, people still QQ about being two shot when they are in hardy, and dealing no damage because apparently they think spiteful/wrathful actually works on players.
    Borsuc wrote: »
    kamizuma wrote: »
    Making one of the very few places left to need pvp gear equalized has a lot more consequences than just affecting that one bg. Is equalized in of itself a bad idea for specifically fraywind and the bg itself? I don't think it's a bad idea if it's done correctly but for the game health as a whole it's not good.
    Game's health is not measured by economy, because this is not the stock market. Yeah there's PvP games out there with no economies whatsoever, shocking I bet, but it's true. (I mean ingame economies, obviously)

    I don't usually defend kami, but he has a point. There is little incentive left to gear for PvP, and because of that the PvP market dropped drastically. PvE servers and heck some PvX and PvE players from PvP servers rely heavily on the most garbage battlegrounds in the list to get bonanza boxes.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    Wow, that's a stupid premise. Of course we get to cherry pick. Some changes are good, some changes are irrelevant and some are bad.
    And which are good and which are bad? That's just YOUR opinion. Not saying you can't have that opinion, I'm saying your opinion isn't more valuable, or let's say instead, your definition of good/bad is not somehow more valuable, so why even bring it up? It will just end up as "my word vs your word", no arguments at all from either of us.
    aeee98 wrote: »
    I don't usually defend kami, but he has a point. There is little incentive left to gear for PvP, and because of that the PvP market dropped drastically. PvE servers and heck some PvX and PvE players from PvP servers rely heavily on the most garbage battlegrounds in the list to get bonanza boxes.
    I'm not sure you fully understand the argument being crushed here and it is even more hilarious that they (kami etc) think they are fooling people with "Conflate is so ez to get everyone has it" (in general). :awesome:

    Let's break it down logically since i'm sick of nonsense.

    So, according to you, people don't have much incentive to gear anymore, they mostly geared for FWC, is that correct? Ok, which means they do not have the gear, i.e they do NOT HAVE Conflate yet. Which again, must I remind you that it is gear from previous patch? Yeah, think about the people who had it last patch and keep babbling how "everyone has Conflate cause it's easy to make". The people who "quit" because of the eq change, in other words, already had it. Those people have Conflate already so by THIS logic, let's exclude them completely, cause they don't matter! Owned #1.

    Second case: even if people lack Conflate, we are only interested in them running FWC for credits here. Obviously, nobody is crying that CS, Kuma or other BGs don't pop, right? (even if CS doesn't, they don't care) I mean it's obvious. So who do you want to queue for CREDITS in FWC? People who don't have Conflate!!!

    What does this mean? That's right, it means you'd get people without the "so easy to make" Conflate in FWC and they would keep it alive based on this logic (hey, YOU assumed that people's incentive to gear is what makes it pop, not me! so this is a consequence of your argument).

    Which means you indirectly IMPLY that for FWC to be alive it must have fodder people queuing which don't have Conflate yet. This nullifies your "Conflate is so easy to make so normal uneq is balanced cause everyone has it!!!" argument COMPLETELY. Owned #2.

    NOTE: when I say "you" here, I refer to everyone who used that argument as a plural form, including kamizuma.

    And lastly, why does economy worry always come from people in the 1% richest? Think about it for a second.

    And let me tell you something, rich people who bought credits off others do not matter in your argument because they already have Conflate, and that is one of the reasons for the entire thing: it is old gear, old reward, that people already have. Period.




    Here's my take: rewards do not have to apply to the BG itself. People will still run it for rewards. Perfect example: Murderous Intent, rankings, achievements. All this stuff does not matter in the respective BG, gives you no edge whatsoever, only out of it. It's still a reward, a properly done reward. Look at Overwatch, no reward will ever make you able to win easier, yet it still has rewards.

    Most of those were taken away right now so yet another slap in the face. (MI, Rankings)

    Obvious things for people with common sense.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Borsuc wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    Wow, that's a stupid premise. Of course we get to cherry pick. Some changes are good, some changes are irrelevant and some are bad.
    And which are good and which are bad? That's just YOUR opinion. Not saying you can't have that opinion, I'm saying your opinion isn't more valuable, or let's say instead, your definition of good/bad is not somehow more valuable, so why even bring it up? It will just end up as "my word vs your word", no arguments at all from either of us.

    That is the whole point of an argument. You can't argue about objective truths/facts because one is definitively right and the other one is definitively wrong. The only way a discussion doesn't come down to "The Earth is flat"-"Wow, you are an idiot" is if you are talking about opinions.

    So, what makes an opinion more valid(I don't think valuable is the right word)? How many people share it. I don't even remember there being complaints about CDR but I do see FWC not popping after it got equalised. One of these changes has/had an observable impact on the game while the other one had a couple of guys(maybe?) briefly whine on the forums. And, speaking of differences...
    CDR was in the game prior to VM2, it existed in the form of Nostrums that people were not only using but viewed as mandatory. It was seen as a needed and valuable stat and people naturally wanted mroe of it. Just like crut rate, power, endurance, attack speed etc. VM2 simply extended it to more skills/classes and allowed you to have more of it.
    EQ gear has been a part of the game for a while as well. However, people have always found it lacking and suggestions on how to improve it/make it work have been popping up on forums the entire time. From mystic thralls in CS/BftP/3v3 through stun stat on earrings in 3v3 to today's FWC issue. CS was considered "noob friendly" and eq gear was accepted, 3v3 saw it as a chance to revive a dying BG, FWC, however, was neither of those(at least when they brought out the patch, it's had its ups and downs over the years). This change was simply not needed and ended up killing the BG as different people have different reasons for disliking it. FWC has always been the "endgame" BG and the last place that required the full package(since CU:V died, just as I predicted) and allowed you to play the way you want to.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    CDR was in the game prior to VM2, it existed in the form of Nostrums that people were not only using but viewed as mandatory. It was seen as a needed and valuable stat and people naturally wanted mroe of it. Just like crut rate, power, endurance, attack speed etc. VM2 simply extended it to more skills/classes and allowed you to have more of it.
    What are you talking about? We're talking about the CDR stat, not CDR buffs. Not to mention those are not useable in BGs -- the point of this thread. So please. In fact, there was big outcry about the lowering of attack speed and adding those stupid stats (at VM2), but the biggest was probably after etchings were added with Reaper patch, when e.g zerks could permanently KD you without retaliate (back then without even newer skills, at lv60 cap). There is NOTHING balanced around that stupid stat and should not exist. If BHS wanted skills to have lower cooldown, they would simply have them have... lower cooldown.

    But yeah, about the argument thing, in fact your flat earth example is a good one.

    Considering people who claim it as flat have only opinions and no facts to back it up. Well they do have some "facts", but unfortunately are not enough because those same facts also work for a round earth. And in most cases, they have no explanation for many things (including horizon), there's actually a flat earth society forum out there and yes, most of them totally ignore the opposition arguments which use facts and refuse to explain certain observed phenomena. In this case the round earthers obviously use the superior argument, as it's not just an opinion, but based on more observable evidence and facts.

    EDIT: By "observable evidence" I don't even mean NASA or pictures from space or 3rd party. I mean evidence you can see for yourself, like flat earthers unable to explain the horizon properly, and so on. That stuff you can see for yourself.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Borsuc wrote: »
    What are you talking about? We're talking about the CDR stat, not CDR buffs.

    I'm talking about CDR, the stat that decrease cooldown of skills. It comes in the form of buffs, glyphs and gear lines.
    Not to mention those are not useable in BGs -- the point of this thread.

    That's not even in the general vicinity of the point of this thread.
    In fact, there was big outcry about the lowering of attack speed and adding those stupid stats (at VM2),

    Complaints about lowering of attack speed =/= complaints about adding CDR to gear rolls.

    [quote[but the biggest was probably after etchings were added with Reaper patch, when e.g zerks could permanently KD you without retaliate (back then without even newer skills, at lv60 cap).[/quote]

    A zerk can also perma kd you in CS. But, yeah, sure blame the gear.
    There is NOTHING balanced around that stupid stat and should not exist. If BHS wanted skills to have lower cooldown, they would simply have them have... lower cooldown.

    There's this thing called "build diversity". I guess I should expect "If they wanted skills to crit harder, they'd just code them to do so which is why crystals are stupid" next.
    But yeah, about the argument thing, in fact your flat earth example is a good one.

    Considering people who claim it as flat have only opinions and no facts to back it up. Well they do have some "facts", but unfortunately are not enough because those same facts also work for a round earth. And in most cases, they have no explanation for many things (including horizon), there's actually a flat earth society forum out there and yes, most of them totally ignore the opposition arguments which use facts and refuse to explain certain observed phenomena. In this case the round earthers obviously use the superior argument, as it's not just an opinion, but based on more observable evidence and facts.

    EDIT: By "observable evidence" I don't even mean NASA or pictures from space or 3rd party. I mean evidence you can see for yourself, like flat earthers unable to explain the horizon properly, and so on. That stuff you can see for yourself.

    OK...thanks for...elaborating on my point, I guess. At least it shows you understood it...maybe.
  • BorsucBorsuc ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    I'm talking about CDR, the stat that decrease cooldown of skills. It comes in the form of buffs, glyphs and gear lines.
    Right, and gear line/etching stat did not exist prior to VM2 patch. Consumable buffs with CDR are not useable in BGs so those didn't exist either prior to VM2 patch, and neither do they now, not in BGs anyway.

    This thread is about FWC which is a BG. So yeah, that's about being in the context of the topic at hand.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    A zerk can also perma kd you in CS. But, yeah, sure blame the gear.
    No he couldn't, before lv65 cap. (no Throwing Axe etc). Now he can, but other classes got new skills too, some needed survival skills on some (like sorc). Before lv60 cap, there was none of this yet zerks could perma KD because of that damn stat.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    There's this thing called "build diversity". I guess I should expect "If they wanted skills to crit harder, they'd just code them to do so which is why crystals are stupid" next.
    Nope, they didn't make skills crit harder simply to add a layer of grind. What's next? Master Glyphs are "build diversity" too because otherwise "they'd just make them available for free"? Yeah right. It's purposeful grind and handicap. Everyone uses the same build depending on what activity anyway -- unless again it's a trap for newbies, there's one proven to be optimal (especially in PvE, but that's not the point of the thread).

    With crystals it's even worse, because not using Savage in PvP is like a trap for newbies. That's apart from the grind (i.e for Dyads).
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Borsuc wrote: »
    Nope, they didn't make skills crit harder simply to add a layer of grind. What's next? Master Glyphs are "build diversity" too because otherwise "they'd just make them available for free"? Yeah right. It's purposeful grind and handicap. Everyone uses the same build depending on what activity anyway -- unless again it's a trap for newbies, there's one proven to be optimal (especially in PvE, but that's not the point of the thread).

    With crystals it's even worse, because not using Savage in PvP is like a trap for newbies. That's apart from the grind (i.e for Dyads).

    Well, good job on disproving your own point.Keep it up and I'll have nothing left to do here.
  • GggHITG.png
    For those defending it:
    Nvr 4ghetti pls
    Eq gear isnt really Eq

    Im not reading the thread at all because i dont have time so i read just the first page! So this comment might look random af owo
    Im just impressed this had no "likes" while some other irrelevant stuff did.
  • I have an idea, make like it was before with the option for equalized gear and one with ur own gear. make everyone happy.
  • You guys are all so cute
Sign In or Register to comment.