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Question about the current state of warrior tanking?
I am currently running as a Brawler and a Priest. I was thinking of giving Warrior a go as a tank to get a difference perspective on things, however everywhere I look people are saying that warrior and lancer are technically useless compared to a brawler. I'm not sure if this is "I don't know how to play my class" QQ or if warriors are actually nerfed to all heck.
Would anyone be kind enough to fill me in?
Would anyone be kind enough to fill me in?
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When brawler patch came, Brawlers were heavily favored because of its super dps abilities and lancer slowly were getting buffed but still was underpowerd. After few patches later, lancer is very good now. Both lancer and brawler are about equal right now; more people prefer lancer because of the superior party utilities it provides (more dps to the party) and lancers actually do pretty decent damage (depend on skill of player). Brawlers are still great but have to maintain at least 90 percent Growing fury to match that of a lancer's party.
Warriors can still tank but they have to work much harder than a brawler or lancer because their damage is not as high while tanking. Basically lancer or brawler has a lot more dps than a warrior in tank stance. Right now most people will always take a brawler or lancer. And if it takes hours to find a tank, then they usually may take a warrior or berserker tank as a secondary option.
But good news though: Ktera just had a warrior revamp and if you haven't seen it's tanking, then you're in for a surprise. It's pretty amazing to see warrior's new abilities in the revamp.
Cheers :>
If you looking for the highest challenge that can still be done but you may struggle go Warrior tank
Brawlers I dislike until they fix the force staggering lag issue, a Brawler that knows how to play one very well can keep GF up for a long time that can also force a staggering lag over the party at times and just ruins the experience of the game for me.
but er no BR win this current patch SSHM over k next
Just check it yourself, your runs will be faster on avg with a Brawler.
Pretty much, if you have an average to good lancer that knows to use those skills and a party of good dps, Lancer runs are faster. If you have a good brawler than can keep GF (which usually means sacrificing some tankiness or positioning so that they can keep it, which can kinda screw over their party), then brawler will be faster.
As far as warrior goes though... I mean, it's not preferred. It doesn't have crazy party buffs like Lancer does, nor does it have the freedom to pretty much just dps with an auto-block like brawler. It takes more time, effort, and concentration, and even then, finding a party that will want to run with you (even if you're pretty good) can be rough.
That being said, the warrior revamp that is coming at some point is incredibly kind to warrior tanks. This is off the top of my head and I might be forgetting things or wrong, but...
Edit: Something to keep in mind is that warrior has always been marketed to us as an evasive tank. You have crazy mobility skills (other than the typical ones like leaping strike, roll, and charging slash, skills like risiing fury and combative strike can move you pretty far and pretty fast in a pinch) and multiple i-frames. Brawlers have only one i-frame (although god it's longggggggggg) but admittedly, as a mobility skill, bullrush is OP and amazing. Lancer has backstep (which sucks tbh) as an iframe and charging lunge for a mobility skill, which more often than not will target the boss and screw over the lancer. Either way, with current dungeons, being able to move is incredibly important. There are tons of non-blockable things in current HM dungeons that have to be i-framed that can screw over a lancer that is out of resolve/tons of mechanics that are more about moving around than blocking, and warrior does have a really good set of skills for moving around Charging slash will screw you over though but ehhh. Of course, this advantage might change in the future when we get new dungeons, but for dungeons like RMHM where there is a looot of movement required (getting out of circles and being away from the boss as a tank, getting hit by soul spheres, moving around the boss to your priest before the push for the cleanse or moving to a mote, the in/out doughnuts), the mobility of war tanks is incredibly useful and is something other tanks don't have in their arsenal. Also note that warriors have more natural attack speed/faster skills/glyphs that increase attack speed, so they are less sluggish than Lancers are known to be, typically.
Obviously there is more but that is just the tank-specific things I could think of.
I've never warr tanked at 65, but my boyfriend used to until a few months ago, so I am speaking from what he's told me about the experience and of course what I've read from KTera patchnote translations. Apparently it's really fun and challenging, but yeah the stigma surrounding warr tanks is definitely real (and understandable, because currently warriors offer very little to parties when Brawlers/Lancers tend to offer more). We would often IM into dungeons for fun...I mean, come on, smooth LFG runs get way too boring! HM dungeons at 3am with people that have no crystals on and don't know mechanics is tru fun endgame lol. But while doing that, there was definitely a problem of people seeing that we had a warrior and either saying, "uh no lol please kick me" or "lol eme broke IMing, they didn't give us a tank haha".
So right now, it's not the best. But with the new updates KTera got, it'll become viable again. And even if it doesn't become the "preferred" tank, it won't be hated by everyone as much as it is now, lol.
Edit again: Sorry this was so long, I got carried away and it's late. I hope you get a chance to try it out and that you enjoy it!
Warrior tank's pretty bad at the moment. You'll struggle to keep aggro against any competent DPS, and your own DPS is abysmal compared to what lancer or brawler can put out. Wartank slows down a run by quite a bit and offers no noticeable damage contribution or party utility.
It's viable, as in you can play it, but be prepared to lose aggro to any high dps. Also be prepared to not hold aggro period if you get stuck with a warrior DPS, because Scythe is your main aggro skill at this point. It used to be doable pre-brawler, but tanking and aggro in general were very different back then - you didn't need to do much damage to keep aggro, and the little that warrior does was considered quite a lot.
After the revamp, wartank will be equally viable to brawler and lancer. For now, it's playable, but it's a struggle.
Lancer -> Warr tank -> Lancer -> Brawler -> Lancer -> both lancer & brawler now.
Warr tank main problem is keeping and stealing back aggro from OP dps. And, Warr tank dps power is lower than Brawler. Warr tank doesn't have lancer's guardian shout and Adr rush for team mate. I think, thats why Warr tank got better dps power in Ktera's Warr revamp.
The good thing about new ktera's warr tank revamp is, now warr tank got highest survive rate among tankers. Brawler got only 1 iframe. Lancer's iframe time is short. Warr tank got Death from above, rolls, shadow summon and backstabb.
After Warr tank got revamped, Ktera lancers are making more complains about lancer's iframe.
A decent DPS can pull 2m with or without a Lancer double heals.
A brawler will pull >1.5-2m with double heals
I'm not going into specifics just simple basic math right here.
Now yesh if everytime you play your liek GODs and Lancer does 2m DPS every run obv Lancer party better, but you know what thats like <0.000000001% of population and I'd consider that an outlier period.
Lancer is faster, Brawler has only been faster when wait for it... A Lancer tanked for them so they could dps instead of tank. A Lancer's average damage is not far off from Brawler's average damage, then take into account the fact Lancer gives their dps more damage.
A bad Brawler will not do over 1m/s, the same way a bad Lancer won't do over 1m/s. Not sure why you're comparing competent Brawlers to bad Lancer's. In addition to the fact a low dps Lancer is far more useful than a low dps Brawler anyways.
Lancer Deeps 500K on low end sometimes lower.
My guess is avg Brawler does 600-800K deeps on Lachelith
Also I aint no tryhard I consider that tank DPS good for RMHM
Staying alive/ keeping aggro better than trying to do a speed run and who cares if it makes the run 2-5m longer.
From what I've seen lancers are only better than brawlers if you are running with super elite single heal party, a brawler even without GF can do 50% more dps than an equally skilled/geared lancer. I saw a couple of lancer in amb+15 doing avg of 700-800kdps and even my brawler can do that most bosses (breaking 1-1.1mil on full GF fight like 2nd boss rmhm/lkhm).
I've then tanked 4 runs on my warrior for comparison, a mistake I made was use the sf+15 weapon to tank, don't... use guile+12 weapon you get to have the endurance from the set bonus, higher dmg/black value since all you are losing is 1 line of you choice and 1 build in dmg from behind line.
The bad: dps is atrocious 400-500kdps with some floormating.
You will get 1shot by missing a single block on some bosses (2nd boss)
Don't EVER block claw attack before swipe if you got fate (120k over block near oneshot where brawler takes only 80k)
The good: backstab helps position the boss
survivability and mobility, never get womboed like brawler cuz of fate+swipe+tail smash combo
FUN
hence why I said Brawler tank is King this patch.
Its easier for em to pull those numbers and faster clears on avg.
Lancer well lets be real not every1 has an OP static.